PDA

View Full Version : Discriminating against a brexiteer



Lance
14th September 2017, 14:56
If during an interview a candidate was asked about their views on Brexit would this be a problem legally?

The scenario being proposed is that a supporter of Brexit clearly lacks the commercial vision and intellect to hold the post being interviewed for.

The Equality Act 2010 covers religious belief.
https://www.harpermacleod.co.uk/hm-insights/2014/january/political-beliefs-and-the-equality-act-2010/
That article talks about philosophical beliefs, and many people may consider their irrational hatred of the EU a philosophy of sorts. But it doesn't seem to really settle it. And also being a (presumably) trade union funded unfair dismissal tribunal it still doesn't match discrimination at interview.

I suppose the question is whether it's a fair and legal question at interview?

And this isn't general so please stick to the legal question.

Bee
14th September 2017, 15:19
If during an interview a candidate was asked about their views on Brexit would this be a problem legally?

The scenario being proposed is that a supporter of Brexit clearly lacks the commercial vision and intellect to hold the post being interviewed for.

The Equality Act 2010 covers religious belief.
https://www.harpermacleod.co.uk/hm-insights/2014/january/political-beliefs-and-the-equality-act-2010/
That article talks about philosophical beliefs, and many people may consider their irrational hatred of the EU a philosophy of sorts. But it doesn't seem to really settle it. And also being a (presumably) trade union funded unfair dismissal tribunal it still doesn't match discrimination at interview.

I suppose the question is whether it's a fair and legal question at interview?

And this isn't general so please stick to the legal question.

Are you serious!!!:laugh

Lance
14th September 2017, 15:23
Are you serious!!!:laugh

Actually. Yes.
Need a reason to shortlist some candidates in the near future. Seems like as good as a test as any. Is it legal (no don't answer that Bee :laugh)?

WTFH
14th September 2017, 15:32
Actually. Yes.
Need a reason to shortlist some candidates in the near future. Seems like as good as a test as any. Is it legal (no don't answer that Bee :laugh)?

If it could be proven that the role would require positive thinking on a pan-European business level, then the candidates would have to be able to prove their capability.

Would your first choice for interview at a butcher be a vegan?
Would a rectal surgeon be the best one to treat tennis elbow? Would a brexiter know the difference?

malvolio
14th September 2017, 15:33
Actually. Yes.
Need a reason to shortlist some candidates in the near future. Seems like as good as a test as any. Is it legal (no don't answer that Bee :laugh)?

Yes it's legal.

But of course you should also be able to ask if one is a Remoaner, on the basis they are not only terminally blind but also have no belief in reality.

Lance
14th September 2017, 15:35
If it could be proven that the role would require positive thinking on a pan-European business level, then the candidates would have to be able to prove their capability.

Would your first choice for interview at a butcher be a vegan?
Would a rectal surgeon be the best one to treat tennis elbow? Would a brexiter know the difference?

The role will be London based providing services across the EU?

WTFH
14th September 2017, 15:36
So they need to be someone who can (and are happy to) legally work in the EU.

Lance
14th September 2017, 15:55
So they need to be someone who can (and are happy to) legally work in the EU.

I think I can finesse that question in such a way as to achieve the result I want.
Thanks.

Maslins
14th September 2017, 16:04
Taking your question 100% seriously and answering as a non-lawyer...

Discrimination has become a nasty word, but in reality picking one potential recruit over another because they have better qualifications/experience is discriminating, but it's completely legal discrimination (and of course makes good sense).

See here (https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights) for stuff it's illegal to discriminate based on.

I don't see that being pro/against Brexit is religious...and I think it would be tenuous to argue it's based on nationality. Therefore my personal view is that discriminating on the basis of Brexit views would be perfectly legal.

Whether it's sensible or not is another matter...you can legally discriminate against someone because you don't like the colour of the top they wear, but it's unlikely to be a great way to decide on the best candidate.

Lance
14th September 2017, 16:10
Thanks Maslins.

northernladyuk
14th September 2017, 19:00
I think it is legal to refuse employment to somebody who is a BNP member. I cannot see why being pro or anti Brexit is any different. Seems rather silly.

SueEllen
14th September 2017, 19:17
I think it is legal to refuse employment to somebody who is a BNP member. I cannot see why being pro or anti Brexit is any different. Seems rather silly.

But that is presuming someone who holds Brexit political views also holds discriminatory ones as well.

northernladyuk
14th September 2017, 19:31
But that is presuming someone who holds Brexit political views also holds discriminatory ones as well.

IIRC BNP membership is sufficient without any need to demonstrate discriminatory views. Not sure why any other political view should be different. Could Google it I guess.

But the original post is distasteful in a democracy IMO.

SueEllen
14th September 2017, 20:34
IIRC BNP membership is sufficient without any need to demonstrate discriminatory views.

Yep.



Not sure why any other political view should be different. Could Google it I guess.


Just being a Brexiter doesn't mean you have a political philosophy that other people are inferior or should be discriminated against based on their characteristics, which is different from being a member of a group like the BNP who have such a philosophy. There are a few articles like this one - linky (https://www.harpermacleod.co.uk//hm-insights/2014/january/political-beliefs-and-the-equality-act-2010/) that indicate this.

There are exceptions in the Equality act to this like these (https://www.humanrightscommission.vic.gov.au/discrimination/exceptions-exemptions-and-special-measures/exceptions) but this excludes the original question.




But the original post is distasteful in a democracy IMO.

Yep and the OP could end up in hot water as the person could take the OP to court and go public if they were rejected for "just" being a Brexiter. With the mood of the country at the moment they would easily be able to crowd fund their claim as well to get very good legal representation.

northernladyuk
15th September 2017, 07:07
It is worth thinking about the attributes of Brexiteers that the OP considers unsuitable for employment and judging on those. By all means reject cretins, gullible tabloid readers and racists. But there will be probably be a minority of Brexiteers who fit none of those categories. You may find am eccentric and that could work out fine.

Lance
15th September 2017, 07:21
It is worth thinking about the attributes of Brexiteers that the OP considers unsuitable for employment and judging on those. By all means reject cretins, gullible tabloid readers and racists. But there will be probably be a minority of Brexiteers who fit none of those categories. You may find am eccentric and that could work out fine.

exactly this. ^^^^^

I know a handful who made a thoughtful decision and have total respect for their views.
Only a fool would class 52% of the population as all the same. It would simply be an indicator, and considering the actual role, it would be a reasonable pointer towards the attitude of the candidate and how they will manage some potentially very difficult discussions with our continental friends/partners.

mudskipper
15th September 2017, 08:24
It's easy enough.

Ask the candidate what opportunities Brexit might offer for clientCo. If they can't see any at all and can only foresee gloom, then give them the job. If they can see any positives, then they're clearly not for you.

HTH.

SueEllen
15th September 2017, 09:48
It's easy enough.

Ask the candidate what opportunities Brexit might offer for clientCo. If they can't see any at all and can only foresee gloom, then give them the job. If they can see any positives, then they're clearly not for you.

HTH.

They may see positives, and unlike the people who normally post on here, be the one rare individual who has a logical grasp on how they can be realistically implemented.

WTFH
15th September 2017, 09:58
If the ClientCo are lawyers, accountants, security firm or IT consultants, the opportunities will be there as and when they are told what needs to be changed/implemented.

Cirrus
16th September 2017, 15:41
I assume you mean interviewing a contractor: I'm not aware there can be 'discrimination' in that situation ie engaging a service provider. In other words I would think you can say what you like.

On the separate matter of whether it is logical, you need to remember that 65% of Nobel Prize winners declare they believe in God. You can have weird ideologies without it affecting the competence of your day job.

chopper
16th September 2017, 16:08
So if you'd rather hire someone who is happy to blindly follow the EU project irrespective of whatever direction it goes then sure, go for it. And if you'd rather discount 52% of candidates because of your own ignorance - then go for it.

How would you handle somebody who said they would prefer not to discuss their political viewpoints in an interview (unless you were hiring someone specifically for a political position)?

WTFH
16th September 2017, 16:48
So if you'd rather hire someone who is happy to blindly follow the EU project irrespective of whatever direction it goes then sure, go for it. And if you'd rather discount 52% of candidates because of your own ignorance - then go for it.


I think he's looking for someone who is not a closed mind, but is capable of making logical decisions and not driven to make bad decisions based on hatred of foreign things.

Also, he probably doesn't want to have to pay £350million a week for them, then have them deny for 15 months that it was £350million a week, then read it in the Telegraph this week that it really was £350million a week, even after the Telegraph even said it wasn't.

Bee
16th September 2017, 18:59
exactly this. ^^^^^

I know a handful who made a thoughtful decision and have total respect for their views.
Only a fool would class 52% of the population as all the same. It would simply be an indicator, and considering the actual role, it would be a reasonable pointer towards the attitude of the candidate and how they will manage some potentially very difficult discussions with our continental friends/partners.

You got me busted.:frown I thought this thread was a joke, I didn't realize that was not in general and was banned for an improper response in profession fora. I apologize for that.

Back to the topic.

Probably you already knew my response due to my 1st reaction, because in a democracy, a person can't be discriminated by political beliefs, etc... the previous links show that it's illegal.

I believe that the Brexiters are protectionist and it does not mean that they are enemies of a specific country, but you know better than me. During the interview, this kind of questions are not welcome to the candidates and a wise candidate would never answer this kind of questions and you may lose a good one.

Lance
16th September 2017, 19:10
You got me busted.No I didn't. There was only total d**khead comment and it wasn't yours. You got banned for the other bull tulip you were writing in other threads I reckon.




Probably you already knew my response due to my 1st reaction, because in a democracy, a person can't be discriminated by political beliefs, etc... the previous links show that it's illegal. Actually it seems to be legal to discriminate against someone for the political beliefs, just not their religious beliefs.



During the interview, this kind of questions are not welcome to the candidates and a wise candidate would never answer this kind of questions and you may lose a good one. It all depends on the question asked (only a total plank would ask "did you vote for or against Brexit?"). And whenever I do interviews there's very rarely any right/wrong answers, it's all about the approach and thought used.
This is quite a senior post so attitude, intelligence and diplomacy are all factors.

SueEllen
16th September 2017, 19:27
Actually it seems to be legal to discriminate against someone for the political beliefs, just not their religious beliefs.


Not exactly.

It depends on the role you are recruiting for and what your organisation/company does.

So you could refuse to recruit a member of the BNP as their political philosophy goes against your company's equal opportunities policies however you couldn't do that for a member of the Conservative party unless you were something like a left-wing think tank or Labour Government minister.

So if you asked someone if they voted Brexit then you couldn't refuse to recruit them for voting Brexit unless it was specifically related to the job. However if they came out with illogical tulip on why they voted Brexit then you can refuse to recruit them for the illogical tulip they said.

AndrewK
18th September 2017, 23:43
If somebody would ask me such question, I would know that person who is hiring, is not 100% mentally stable. And I would think 3x times before going to such place. However, I would answer - I am sorry but I don't have opinion on this topic.

That's is even worse than asking what type of animal would you be and why....

northernladuk
18th September 2017, 23:50
You got me busted.:frown I thought this thread was a joke, I didn't realize that was not in general and was banned for an improper response in profession fora. I apologize for that.
.

I do believe the reason for the ban was for 'continuing to spoil threads and being a general arse in the prof fora' and not just for your response to this thread.

Either way, continuing to post in the thread you think you got banned for is a good idea how?

Swamp Thing
19th September 2017, 13:25
If somebody would ask me such question, I would know that person who is hiring, is not 100% mentally stable. And I would think 3x times before going to such place. However, I would answer - I am sorry but I don't have opinion on this topic.

That's is even worse than asking what type of animal would you be and why....

+1.
If a client asked me such a question I would run a mile - what a peculiar question! I would equate it with the loaded questions of yesteryear, like "How old are you, I don't see your DOB on your CV?". I would be re-evaluating clientco's culture and values. The question may be legal, but I would also answer "I don't have an opinion about that" and wait for the interview to end.

Eirikur
19th September 2017, 13:41
It should be ok to discriminate based on religious and political beliefs else the following would be illegal
Catholic priest will not be interviewed for a job at the Sunni Mosque and a openly Tory member won't get a job at Labour HQ

So if the role is working for a remain organisation it should be fine to refuse a brexiteer

SueEllen
19th September 2017, 13:48
It should be ok to discriminate based on religious and political beliefs else the following would be illegal
Catholic priest will not be interviewed for a job at the Sunni Mosque and a openly Tory member won't get a job at Labour HQ

So if the role is working for a remain organisation it should be fine to refuse a brexiteer

Yep as it is ok to discriminate on sex, gender, ethnicity, religion, age and political belief where it is a specific qualification for the job.

So for example a Tory government minister can refuse to employ someone who is an active and vocal member of the Labour party. A care home can refuse to employ a woman and employ a man instead if they want someone to wash the intimate body areas of their disabled old male customers. A Church can refuse to hire a Muslim volunteer for their religious playgroup. A newspaper who wants the views of people under 25 can refuse to hire someone who is 35 for the job etc.

northernladyuk
19th September 2017, 15:44
Yep as it is ok to discriminate on sex, gender, ethnicity, religion, age and political belief where it is a specific qualification for the job.

So for example a Tory government minister can refuse to employ someone who is an active and vocal member of the Labour party. A care home can refuse to employ a woman and employ a man instead if they want someone to wash the intimate body areas of their disabled old male customers. A Church can refuse to hire a Muslim volunteer for their religious playgroup. A newspaper who wants the views of people under 25 can refuse to hire someone who is 35 for the job etc.

A website administrator who wants a crap forum can refuse to hire moderators with an IQ above 75.

SueEllen
19th September 2017, 16:17
A website administrator who wants a crap forum can refuse to hire moderators with an IQ above 75.

If you are going to discriminate against people you need to use a bit of commonsense. So all the website admin has to do is set a test and those that fail get the job.

Gibbon
20th September 2017, 13:19
Not exactly.

So if you asked someone if they voted Brexit

Then you could be in trouble; voting is done in secret and efforts to subvert that are frowned on. I would be wary of framing any questions that could be construed as determining how a candidate voted.

Lance
20th September 2017, 13:54
Then you could be in trouble; voting is done in secret and efforts to subvert that are frowned on. I would be wary of framing any questions that could be construed as determining how a candidate voted.

If you're a Labour party member and you vote against Labour they kick you out of the party #justsayingitsnotwithoutprecedent

Gibbon
20th September 2017, 13:59
If you're a Labour party member and you vote against Labour they kick you out of the party #justsayingitsnotwithoutprecedent

It's the act of asking that's dodgy, if they freely volunteer then that's ok. Although they could say they didn't when they did so it's a pointless question. Are you referring to a MP in your example? if so that's different as it's a public vote.