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lhgleicester
6th October 2017, 13:19
Hello

BBC Radio 4 is looking into the impact of the IR35 rule change for the public sector, and interested to speak to individuals who have been affected.

We would be keen to hear from anybody who has seen significant change in the area they work in, or has seen their circumstances change significantly.

If you are interested to let us know about your experience, please reply to this thread, and I will send you a private message.

Many thanks.

northernladuk
6th October 2017, 13:36
Not sure you will have PM rights yet will you?

eek
6th October 2017, 13:37
He has

TheFaQQer
6th October 2017, 13:46
Not sure you will have PM rights yet will you?

Yes, she does :)

northernladuk
6th October 2017, 13:59
Oh. That's OK then.

Contractor UK
9th October 2017, 09:29
Just to clarify - This journo contacted Contractor UK first to explain her work which checked out fine. So if anybody can contribute constructively with details -and in confidence - feel free to PM the journo directly. Thanks.

lhgleicester
26th October 2017, 12:00
Hello

Thank you to so many of you for reading the request above and to those of you who have been in touch; the correspondence has been invaluable to my investigation of this very complicated regulatory area.

Something I am hearing a lot is that adding Employer NI to a contractor's tax bill is an unchecked but widespread practice. I am therefore still looking to speak to people whose contracts were brought inside IR35 and now have Employer NI deducted from their rate.

If affected, it would be great to hear from you and whether or not you agree with the Employer NI charge.

Thanks again

BrilloPad
26th October 2017, 12:38
A brief reminder: -

Anyone who gets involved is mad. You will be portrayed as tax evading scum. The media just does HMRC bidding.

Note that the media does not care about HMRC LYING in the meeting minutes. Or LYING to parliament. Or retrospectively changing the law.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/123864-ir35-forum-july-minutes-3.html#post2480452

mudskipper
26th October 2017, 14:35
A brief reminder: -

Anyone who gets involved is mad. You will be portrayed as tax evading scum. The media just does HMRC bidding.

Note that the media does not care about HMRC LYING in the meeting minutes. Or LYING to parliament. Or retrospectively changing the law.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/123864-ir35-forum-july-minutes-3.html#post2480452

And if nobody responds, the media cannot present our side of the story. :rolleyes:

eek
26th October 2017, 15:00
A brief reminder: -

Anyone who gets involved is mad. You will be portrayed as tax evading scum. The media just does HMRC bidding.

Note that the media does not care about HMRC LYING in the meeting minutes. Or LYING to parliament. Or retrospectively changing the law.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/123864-ir35-forum-july-minutes-3.html#post2480452

+1. HMRC are merely playing to a general public who don’t see why others should pay less tax (in both monetary terms or percentage) than they do.

MS - if you think you can explain employers ni to the average income tax payer in a way that makes it sound like a contractor is hard done by go ahead - I’ve spent 10 minutes thinking of ways that don’t make us sound bad and I can’t find any.

Fred Bloggs
27th October 2017, 01:08
+1. HMRC are merely playing to a general public who don’t see why others should pay less tax (in both monetary terms or percentage) than they do.

MS - if you think you can explain employers ni to the average income tax payer in a way that makes it sound like a contractor is hard done by go ahead - I’ve spent 10 minutes thinking of ways that don’t make us sound bad and I can’t find any.
^^^^ This with knobs on. Imagine this - The R4 presenter introduces the average contractor as an individual who earns north of GBP 100k a year, typically. But pays no employers NICs and no higher rate income tax at all. Tell me, exactly how does anyone imagine for a single nano second that this is going to sound good to the typical employee struggling on GBP 26 or 27k a year salary? I'm all ears waiting for the answer.

Fred Bloggs
27th October 2017, 01:10
And if nobody responds, the media cannot present our side of the story. :rolleyes:
And you REALLY think that is a good idea? Read my other post ^^^^ up there and give me a straight answer, if you can please?

jamesbrown
27th October 2017, 01:22
+1. HMRC are merely playing to a general public who don’t see why others should pay less tax (in both monetary terms or percentage) than they do.

MS - if you think you can explain employers ni to the average income tax payer in a way that makes it sound like a contractor is hard done by go ahead - I’ve spent 10 minutes thinking of ways that don’t make us sound bad and I can’t find any.

It cuts both ways.

Certainly, an IT contractor on something north of 100k is at an inherent disadvantage in trying to explain the iniquity of this, so they shouldn't bother trying.

Also, if you're explaining, you're losing. That's true, to an extent, with anything related to tax. If you're on a high income and you're explaining, you're definitely losing, because the baseline assumption is that you're on the fiddle.

But if you're on a modest income, I think there's some scope for getting a message across.

I think the only message that has any hope of being heard is the following: you're taxed like an employee, but you don't get most of the benefits/rights of employment. I think that's pretty easy to understand as being iniquitous.

Once you start explaining the details of employment taxes, eyes will obviously glaze over, and most employees have no clue that they are effectively paying Employer's NI. We all know this complexity is no coincidence.

Fred Bloggs
27th October 2017, 02:06
It cuts both ways.

Certainly, an IT contractor on something north of 100k is at an inherent disadvantage in trying to explain the iniquity of this, so they shouldn't bother trying.

Also, if you're explaining, you're losing. That's true, to an extent, with anything related to tax. If you're on a high income and you're explaining, you're definitely losing, because the baseline assumption is that you're on the fiddle.

But if you're on a modest income, I think there's some scope for getting a message across.

I think the only message that has any hope of being heard is the following: you're taxed like an employee, but you don't get most of the benefits/rights of employment. I think that's pretty easy to understand as being iniquitous.

Once you start explaining the details of employment taxes, eyes will obviously glaze over, and most employees have no clue that they are effectively paying Employer's NI. We all know this complexity is no coincidence.
Try this - If a person were on a fixed term contract at big co for a year and getting the normal big co salary for that year (this is now very, very common) and you are sat next to him/her on a one year hourly rate contract with your Ltd Co and maybe on 50 to 100% more money why do you think you are entitled to not pay the same tax and NICs as the FTC guy? Shouldn't you actually be paying much, much more than him/her?

SueEllen
27th October 2017, 05:38
Try this - If a person were on a fixed term contract at big co for a year and getting the normal big co salary for that year (this is now very, very common) and you are sat next to him/her on a one year hourly rate contract with your Ltd Co and maybe on 50 to 100% more money why do you think you are entitled to not pay the same tax and NICs as the FTC guy? Shouldn't you actually be paying much, much more than him/her?

The FTC person has some employment rights such as holiday pay. Unfortunately the actual rights they have apart from the minimum completely depends on the employer.

eek
27th October 2017, 06:01
The FTC person has some employment rights such as holiday pay. Unfortunately the actual rights they have apart from the minimum completely depends on the employer.

And those minimum rights except for holiday pay are worth virtually nothing

mudskipper
27th October 2017, 06:54
The PS has said you are effectively an employee.

But they're not going to give you holiday pay, sick pay, pension, redundancy etc.

The legislation says that the fee payer is responsible for Employers NI, but this is being passed on to the worker.

In short, they are dodging their responsibilities. Doesn't matter if I'm on £100 an hour or £10 an hour.

There are plenty of examples of people who aren't well paid who have fallen foul of this.

Fred Bloggs
27th October 2017, 08:48
The FTC person has some employment rights such as holiday pay. Unfortunately the actual rights they have apart from the minimum completely depends on the employer.
Correct, they also likely get a pension contribution too. That's still going to be a hard sell to Joe Public when he wants to know why you aren't paying your ERNIC. I think you know that too, really.

jamesbrown
27th October 2017, 09:17
Try this - If a person were on a fixed term contract at big co for a year and getting the normal big co salary for that year (this is now very, very common) and you are sat next to him/her on a one year hourly rate contract with your Ltd Co and maybe on 50 to 100% more money why do you think you are entitled to not pay the same tax and NICs as the FTC guy? Shouldn't you actually be paying much, much more than him/her?

I think you’re looking at this bass akwards. There are all sorts of iniquities in the labour market, whether you’re an employee, a worker, or self-employed. These rules are exploited in all directions and for various reasons, which render comparisons (“who is screwed the most”?) pretty useless.

The question is simple: if you’re treated like an employee, is it reasonable to not have the rights of being an employee? The correct answer is: no. If someone is doing the same job as an employee, they should be an employee. It is not reasonable for the gov’t to tax someone like an employee without giving them a contract of employment. Afterall, they design the rules. They’ve baked in a different tax treatment of various types of labour.

The propaganda war is a different matter. You don’t choose a highly skilled, highly paid contractor to represent the case to the general public, even if the principle is no less sound. Employment taxes and employment rights for employees.

malvolio
27th October 2017, 09:18
Try this - If a person were on a fixed term contract at big co for a year and getting the normal big co salary for that year (this is now very, very common) and you are sat next to him/her on a one year hourly rate contract with your Ltd Co and maybe on 50 to 100% more money why do you think you are entitled to not pay the same tax and NICs as the FTC guy? Shouldn't you actually be paying much, much more than him/her?
If you are paying the correct taxes across the board then you will be. People need to stop looking at percentages and look at actual money. For many years my total annual tax bill was well above the average national wage. As I've said many times if I'm a tax dodger I'm a really bad one.

BrilloPad
27th October 2017, 09:28
If you are paying the correct taxes across the board then you will be. People need to stop looking at percentages and look at actual money. For many years my total annual tax bill was well above the average national wage. As I've said many times if I'm a tax dodger I'm a really bad one.

We know exactly what you mean - and agree totally.

The question is how you get that over to the mob - placated by only cheap beer and TV football.

Government, Footballers and Bankers seem to achieve it. However getting us into that league will be very difficult.

BrilloPad
27th October 2017, 09:29
Matt O'Connor learnt a valuable lesion when interviewed by Fiona Bruce. He expected a balanced interview and got sandbagged. He was not prepared.

If you are going to be interviewed, ALWAYS GET DIRT ON THE INTERVIEWER FIRST.

BrilloPad
27th October 2017, 09:30
Hello

BBC Radio 4 is looking into the impact of the IR35 rule change for the public sector, and interested to speak to individuals who have been affected.

We would be keen to hear from anybody who has seen significant change in the area they work in, or has seen their circumstances change significantly.

If you are interested to let us know about your experience, please reply to this thread, and I will send you a private message.

Many thanks.

No going to respond to comments on this thread?

mudskipper
27th October 2017, 09:54
No going to respond to comments on this thread?

Why on earth would they?

BrilloPad
27th October 2017, 09:57
Why on earth would they?

To prove that those who apply will not be left to twist in the wind.

I have seen it happen too many times.

Generally the BBC are better than most. But not much.

eek
27th October 2017, 10:54
To prove that those who apply will not be left to twist in the wind.

I have seen it happen too many times.

Generally the BBC are better than most. But not much.

simple rule when dealing with media - no editoral control - run away...

oliverson
4th November 2017, 20:43
Heard this on the radio today:

BBC Radio 4 - Money Box, Pensions freedoms tax shock (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09cvrbc)

IR35 link half-way down the page.

Looking inevitable for the budget.

mudskipper
5th November 2017, 10:28
Heard this on the radio today:

BBC Radio 4 - Money Box, Pensions freedoms tax shock (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09cvrbc)

IR35 link half-way down the page.

Looking inevitable for the budget.

The contractor gave a good, articulate account, I thought.