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AtW
23rd October 2017, 13:49
Car dealer Pendragon warns on profits as consumer demand 'wanes'

Car dealer Pendragon has sounded the alarm about health of Britain’s automotive industry, issuing a profit warning it blamed on falling demand for new cars and lower prices in the used market.

The warning - which came in an unscheduled update that also revealed Pendragon chairman Mel Eggerton was stepping down with immediate effect - sent shares in the company down almost a fifth.

Concerns about motorists’ willingness to splash out on new vehicles also dragged down peers, with Inchcape and Lookers dropping almost 5pc.

The warning comes as industry sources say that new car registration figures are “bloody”, with another big drop expected when the monthly data are issued at the start of November. Uncertainty caused by Brexit and the weaker pound are being cited as the main causes of the slowdown.

Pendragon - which owns the Evans Halshaw and Stratstone dealerships - said it now expects to post a pre-tax profit of £60m in 2017 against market expectations of £75m, and some £15m below last year’s figure.

Profits are forecast to start to rise again in 2018, the company said. It added that during September "as consumer confidence waned, we experienced significant market pressure".

Car dealer Pendragon warns on profits as consumer demand 'wanes' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/23/car-dealer-pendragon-warns-profits-consumer-demand-wanes/)

Tory-Brexit-No-Deal DOOMED™!

:eyes

original PM
23rd October 2017, 15:00
"Uncertainty caused by Brexit and the weaker pound are being cited as the main causes of the slowdown."

In 100 words or less explain why your next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

BlasterBates
23rd October 2017, 15:02
"because the boss told me they're moving the HQ to the EU next year and I will have to look for another job"

AtW
23rd October 2017, 15:08
In 100 words or less explain why your next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

I don't want to buy an RHD Ferrari just in case I'll be forced to move out of UK.

HTH

greenlake
23rd October 2017, 15:17
I don't want to buy an RHD Ferrari just in case I'll be forced to move out of UK.

HTH

Hope THIS helps....

http://i.imgur.com/ZLllUsc.jpg

original PM
23rd October 2017, 15:19
"because the boss told me they're moving the HQ to the EU next year and I will have to look for another job"


I don't want to buy an RHD Ferrari just in case I'll be forced to move out of UK.

HTH

I should try that again

in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK citizens next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

AtW
23rd October 2017, 15:26
I should try that again

in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK citizens next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

Your original question was -


"Uncertainty caused by Brexit and the weaker pound are being cited as the main causes of the slowdown."

In 100 words or less explain why your next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

I've answered it.

Now you are changing the question, typical Brexiter.

I'll answer that one too though - for average UK citizen buying (or more like renting for 3 years via PCP) car is too risky given uncertainty of Brexit: for most people getting car is 3rd biggest financial commitment of the lives (1st being marriage, 2nd - buying house)

WTFH
23rd October 2017, 15:28
I should try that again

in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK citizens next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

Many of us on here are contractors/business owners, we probably don't count as "average UK citizens".

Why would people be concerned about making large outlays in depreciating products?
Because of uncertainty. The government has no clue where they are going to take the country. It's not about what the EU asks for, it's about what the UK government negotiates. (something that some Brexiteers don't seem to understand)
If the government has no clue, then this uncertainty affects businesses and individuals.

Until there is some certainty and some stability, then many people/businesses are reluctant to make big outlays.

Hobosapien
23rd October 2017, 15:29
Car sales dropping as everyone is tied into a 3 year lease deal. Solution, only offer 1 year leases. :smokin

original PM
23rd October 2017, 15:39
Many of us on here are contractors/business owners, we probably don't count as "average UK citizens".

Why would people be concerned about making large outlays in depreciating products?
Because of uncertainty. The government has no clue where they are going to take the country. It's not about what the EU asks for, it's about what the UK government negotiates. (something that some Brexiteers don't seem to understand)
If the government has no clue, then this uncertainty affects businesses and individuals.

Until there is some certainty and some stability, then many people/businesses are reluctant to make big outlays.

Do you think the average UK citizen takes any of that into account when they are looking at their next ford focus?

Benny
23rd October 2017, 15:40
Because of uncertainty. The government has no clue where they are going to take the country. It's not about what the EU asks for, it's about what the UK government negotiates. (something that some Brexiteers don't seem to understand)
Given the large number of Continental made imports do you not think it is also of interest to the EU to resolve this?

sasguru
23rd October 2017, 15:47
I should try that again

in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK citizens next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

Why do you think car sales have fallen for several months on the trot ?
Because that's a fact not an opinion.

WTFH
23rd October 2017, 15:48
Given the large number of Continental made imports do you not think it is also of interest to the EU to resolve this?

Yes, it is in the EU interest and the UK's interest.
If the UK chooses to apply WTO rules and then puts a tariff on car imports, that applies to all cars, not just ones from the EU.

It is in the interest of the EU to resolve this. It is also (denied by many Brexiteers) in the interest of the UK to resolve it. If the UK negotiating team are unable to negotiate a deal that is good for the UK, then the Brexiteers will automatically blame the EU for being too good at negotiating (or in Brexiteer speak, "demanding" things).

Threatening, or getting "no deal" is worse for the UK than the EU. It is not good for either side, but the EU will continue with business as usual internally and around the rest of the world.

Benny
23rd October 2017, 15:50
Yes, it is in the EU interest and the UK's interest.
If the UK chooses to apply WTO rules and then puts a tariff on car imports, that applies to all cars, not just ones from the EU.

It is in the interest of the EU to resolve this. It is also (denied by many Brexiteers) in the interest of the UK to resolve it. If the UK negotiating team are unable to negotiate a deal that is good for the UK, then the Brexiteers will automatically blame the EU for being too good at negotiating (or in Brexiteer speak, "demanding" things).

Threatening, or getting "no deal" is worse for the UK than the EU. It is not good for either side, but the EU will continue with business as usual internally and around the rest of the world.Naw - impose tariffs & buy Jaguars it's the only way

Benny
23rd October 2017, 15:56
Why do you think car sales have fallen for several months on the trot ?
Because that's a fact not an opinion.

Aston Martin Sept sales are up 87.37%
Dacia up 0.73%
Hyundai up 2.16%
Infiniti up 23.8%
Jaguar up 9.99% (yay!)
Kia up 4.97%
Land Rover up 5.2% (yay!)
Maserati up 17.45%
Mercedes up 6.9%
Nissan up 6.30%
Seat up 19.84%

sasguru
23rd October 2017, 15:58
Naw - impose tariffs & buy Jaguars it's the only way

You do know Jaguar is Indian and can move production to their huge spanking new facility in Slovakia at the drop of a hat?
I wonder if they sell more cars in the UK than the whole of the rest of Europe, what the trends and profitability figures are.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jaguarlandrover-results/jaguar-land-rover-sells-record-583313-cars-in-2016-idUSKBN14T0GM

Europe was JLRs biggest market in 2016

WTFH
23rd October 2017, 16:13
Anyway, here's a little bit of understanding about how vitally critical the UK market is in terms of the top 5 car brands globally:

Toyota: 1% of their global sales are in the UK
VW: 3%
Ford: 5%
Honda: 1%
Nissan: 3%

If we stick in the top European brands (after VW):
Renault: 3%
Mercedes: 7%
Peugeot: 4%
BMW: 9%
Audi: 9%
Fiat: 4%

These figures are based on:
Focus2move| World Cars Brand - The top 25 in the 2017 (http://focus2move.com/world-cars-brand-ranking/)
and
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
Figures for the first 8 months of 2017.

WTFH
23rd October 2017, 16:19
Aston Martin Sept sales are up 87.37%
Dacia up 0.73%
Hyundai up 2.16%
Infiniti up 23.8%
Jaguar up 9.99% (yay!)
Kia up 4.97%
Land Rover up 5.2% (yay!)
Maserati up 17.45%
Mercedes up 6.9%
Nissan up 6.30%
Seat up 19.84%

That's year to date, not just the month of September.
YTD overall UK sales are down 3.91%
Including:
Bentley: -11.38%
Lotus: -17.99%
McLaren: 0%
Vauxhall: -20.3%
Other British: - 8.28%

sasguru
23rd October 2017, 16:22
That's year to date, not just the month of September.
YTD overall UK sales are down 3.91%
Including:
Bentley: -11.38%
Lotus: -17.99%
McLaren: 0%
Vauxhall: -20.3%
Other British: - 8.28%

I'm sure Benny wasn't trying to mislead, he's just not very good with numbers, like most on here.:rolleyes:
You also need to take into account, that those who buy expensive German cars are not very price sensitive, they'll buy them anyway.

BrilloPad
23rd October 2017, 16:43
That's year to date, not just the month of September.
YTD overall UK sales are down 3.91%
Including:
Bentley: -11.38%
Lotus: -17.99%
McLaren: 0%
Vauxhall: -20.3%
Other British: - 8.28%

This is sounding like an AGW debate....

sasguru
23rd October 2017, 21:04
This is sounding like an AGW debate....

Only because you’re terrible at numbers and maths.

AtW
23rd October 2017, 21:18
Given the large number of Continental made imports do you not think it is also of interest to the EU to resolve this?

No - EU key interest is to prevent any more states leaving, everything else is nice to have

Mordac
23rd October 2017, 22:46
No - EU key interest is to prevent any more states leaving, everything else is nice to have

Remind me, which was the last political bloc to hold a similar priority...?

AtW
23rd October 2017, 22:50
Remind me, which was the last political bloc to hold a similar priority...?

If you are implying here USSR, then you are wrong - that block was based on force, not voluntary joining with equal rights like it is in the EU.

USSR was built on the bones of millions people who were killed because they were deemed a risk to the superstate run from Moscow.

Mordac
23rd October 2017, 23:00
If you are implying here USSR, then you are wrong - that block was based on force, not voluntary joining with equal rights like it is in the EU.

USSR was built on the bones of millions people who were killed because they were deemed a risk to the superstate run from Moscow.

Voluntary joining, but not voluntary leaving - not without paying billions in a great extortion racket, anyway...

(and yes, I was referring to the USSR) :wink

AtW
23rd October 2017, 23:11
Voluntary joining, but not voluntary leaving - not without paying billions in a great extortion racket, anyway...(and yes, I was referring to the USSR) :wink

Paying few years worth of AGREED contributions isn't an unreasonable ask, it's not like they ask 100 years worth of payments for nothing - the money that would go to EU could be used to secure transition period for the same duration. If leaving EU is so important then why resist few years of payments? It's bonkers this is a problem given how important it is to secure good deal.

Now leaving USSR was in theory possible, but in practice wasn't - member states were occupied and those who dreamed of independence were routinely killed in GULAGs.

Hence, comparing EU with USSR is a false analogy used by people who got no clue, also knows as Brexiters.

Mordac
23rd October 2017, 23:31
Paying few years worth of AGREED contributions isn't an unreasonable ask, it's not like they ask 100 years worth of payments for nothing - the money that would go to EU could be used to secure transition period for the same duration. If leaving EU is so important then why resist few years of payments? It's bonkers this is a problem given how important it is to secure good deal.

Now leaving USSR was in theory possible, but in practice wasn't - member states were occupied and those who dreamed of independence were routinely killed in GULAGs.

Hence, comparing EU with USSR is a false analogy used by people who got no clue, also knows as Brexiters.

The current budget period ends in 2020, so we are not obliged to pay anything beyond then. So how they manage to go from 1 years contribution (2019-2020) to "£20bn being not even halfway there" (Macron) is anyone's guess, but extortion is a pretty good place to start.

AtW
23rd October 2017, 23:43
The current budget period ends in 2020, so we are not obliged to pay anything beyond then. So how they manage to go from 1 years contribution (2019-2020) to "£20bn being not even halfway there" (Macron) is anyone's guess, but extortion is a pretty good place to start.

Some obligations such as pensions are extending well into the future, does not seems unreasonable to me to ask for it.

Let's say they want £50 bln in total, of which at least half is hard to dispute, so the question is - why the FOOK antagonize them given that it's up to EU to offer good deal? If they FEEL that they did not get paid enough, then they would be VERY interested in getting their money back (plus more) via worse deal.

They are holding ALL the cards, May practically has to beg them now - what a humiliation!

SueEllen
24th October 2017, 04:27
Some obligations such as pensions are extending well into the future, does not seems unreasonable to me to ask for it.

Let's say they want £50 bln in total, of which at least half is hard to dispute, so the question is - why the FOOK antagonize them given that it's up to EU to offer good deal? If they FEEL that they did not get paid enough, then they would be VERY interested in getting their money back (plus more) via worse deal.

They are holding ALL the cards, May practically has to beg them now - what a humiliation!

May doesn't know what she wants.

milanbenes
24th October 2017, 05:59
Yes, it is in the EU interest and the UK's interest.
If the UK chooses to apply WTO rules and then puts a tariff on car imports, that applies to all cars, not just ones from the EU

Ok, ok, just a sec, I know we are all petrol heads and love cars even if we are in denial due to financial circumstances and try to advocate that cheapo Eye-goes are the future,

but nevertheless,

cars are not the only motor vehicles on the road,

what about,

Trucks and Vans

These are used in the supply chain, they add overhead to the price of household living, what percentage of the trucks and trailers, and vans on the road are made in the UK and what percentage are made in Europe ? WTO tariffs will apply to these too, this will push up household living costs

Why stop there, what about tractors, forklifts ?

These WTO rules are going to have a nice impact on the household budgets of Britain's hard working families

Milan.

sal
24th October 2017, 08:27
I should try that again

in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK citizens next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

The correct question is "in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK resident next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

Giving the fact that the majority of the 3.5mil EU nationals in the UK are of working age and employed - a.k.a. the people likely to buy a new car, keeping them on edge about their future in the UK is likely to influence their decision to make a financial commitment of any sort, let alone in a RHD vehicle.

Then there is the devaluation of the £ and inflation, that is reducing the purchasing power of everyone. And they are definitely caused by Brexit, no matter how hard you try to hide under a rock and not admit it.

milanbenes
24th October 2017, 08:46
The correct question is "in 100 words or less provide a sensible explanation of why the average UK resident next car purchase will be influenced by Brexit.

Giving the fact that the majority of the 3.5mil EU nationals in the UK are of working age and employed - a.k.a. the people likely to buy a new car, keeping them on edge about their future in the UK is likely to influence their decision to make a financial commitment of any sort, let alone in a RHD vehicle.

Then there is the devaluation of the £ and inflation, that is reducing the purchasing power of everyone. And they are definitely caused by Brexit, no matter how hard you try to hide under a rock and not admit it.


since they are watching their salaries fall in their home country's terms, they will leave the UK

Milan.

WTFH
24th October 2017, 09:28
since they are watching their salaries fall in their home country's terms, they will leave the UK

Milan.

Which will keep many happy - house prices will fall so more landlords can buy more property.
Fewer people to do the work will drive up salaries, which is good for lower paid workers.
This will drive up the cost of production, which will hit the bottom line of businesses, unless they are able to pass it on to consumers. If they can’t pass it on then it will hit their profit margin and their shareholders won’t be happy.

Consumers want cheap tulip, so they will purchase from abroad, unless the tariffs put on the products are so high as to make buying local the less expensive option.