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webberg
13th November 2017, 16:59
I am an infrequent visitor to this section of the forum but I'm looking for some help.

We are looking at what might happen in the contracting sector and what contractors might be looking for now and in the near future.

We have surveyed our own group of clients and have had a largely positive reaction to some ideas.

We now want to test this outside what might be seen as a captive audience and would invite any who might be interested in hearing our ideas to a physical/electronic meeting.

It will last about an hour (depending on questions). There is no fee although if we hold a physical session (we are in Holborn) we might stretch to some nibbles and a drink.

happy for you to PM me. I will respond with an email address and we can go from there.

Thanks

webberg
14th November 2017, 17:16
To focus minds here, we have drafted a questionnaire as attached.

If you had 10 minutes and wished to make an anonymous response, this would be very helpful

Thanks

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=RtjqAB_wKkyJyBjaxYDc7GXAxzuVC xRHuEumiqSWYktUQ0hFVE83RFVJRzVESjcxREdHN0hLUk01TS4 u

Waldorf
14th November 2017, 20:20
WTT Consulting touting for business!

I would have thought that the last thing contractors need is to get involved with an aggressive tax avoidance scheme, however for the fools that do, you have been warned!

cojak
14th November 2017, 20:26
We want to be able to go contracting in a way that doesn’t put us at a disadvantage when working away from home, or we want rights that being inside IR35 ought to give us. And we want to do it legally.

Which doesn’t require the services of a tax advisor.

And since you’ve been rather cagey in the ‘what’s in it for me’ mutual benefits stakes, as befits a tax advisor, I’m taking a rather jaundiced eye on this request webberg...

northernladyuk
14th November 2017, 21:48
We want to be able to go contracting in a way that doesn’t put us at a disadvantage when working away from home, or we want rights that being inside IR35 ought to give us. And we want to do it legally.

Which doesn’t require the services of a tax advisor.

And since you’ve been rather cagey in the ‘what’s in it for me’ mutual benefits stakes, as befits a tax advisor, I’m taking a rather jaundiced eye on this request webberg...

I am sure it is just a simple contractor investment scheme into The Dutch Antilles film industry repaid from a trust in the form of a loan in a fast depreciating foreign currency. Why must people be so suspicious?

@ OP: what kind of nibbles?

SueEllen
14th November 2017, 21:56
I am sure it is just a simple contractor investment scheme into The Dutch Antilles film industry repaid from a trust in the form of a loan in a fast depreciating foreign currency. Why must people be so suspicious?

@ OP: what kind of nibbles?

Sooo cynical but cheap

Fred Bloggs
15th November 2017, 00:00
We want to be able to go contracting in a way that doesn’t put us at a disadvantage when working away from home, or we want rights that being inside IR35 ought to give us. And we want to do it legally.

Which doesn’t require the services of a tax advisor.

And since you’ve been rather cagey in the ‘what’s in it for me’ mutual benefits stakes, as befits a tax advisor, I’m taking a rather jaundiced eye on this request webberg...
FWIW, IMHO, cojak, let's give webberg the benefit of the doubt based on his track record to date? Thanks.

Fred Bloggs
15th November 2017, 00:04
To focus minds here, we have drafted a questionnaire as attached.

If you had 10 minutes and wished to make an anonymous response, this would be very helpful

Thanks

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=RtjqAB_wKkyJyBjaxYDc7GXAxzuVC xRHuEumiqSWYktUQ0hFVE83RFVJRzVESjcxREdHN0hLUk01TS4 u
I filled it in just now. HTH.

NotAllThere
15th November 2017, 06:50
I started... but I got bored half way through,

Scruff
15th November 2017, 08:42
After four questions I bailed... An hour of questions, really?

eek
15th November 2017, 11:36
After four questions I bailed... An hour of questions, really?

+1. Keep questions short and too the point otherwise people get fed up.

I got as far as agency pay /markup and thought this person doesn’t seem to understand how agencies have to work and walked away

DaveB
15th November 2017, 12:00
Completed it, only took 5 minutes, but there are a couple of bits that jarred.

Did you choose your agency or were you forced to use them?
Neither, the agency is the one that happened to have the vacancy s is the one I ended up using. You might be better off asking this about Umbrella Co.s

How much do you pay your agency?
I don't, the client pays the agency fees. It's illegal for agencies to charge people to find work for them. Again, you might be better asking this about Umbrella Co.s

webberg
15th November 2017, 12:10
Thanks to those who completed (29) or attempted to finish it.

From the responses back, the average completion time is 5 mins, 28 seconds. Not sure why it needs an hour?

I accept that I have been less than forthcoming about what lies beneath. That is because we have something in development that is not yet ready (and may never be ready). If it ever becomes a reality then I'm sure you will see it in the paid for banners around this page.

I appreciate the forbearance of the moderators.

I'm happy for this to close now if it remains offensive.

In the meantime, thank you again to those who completed the form.

webberg
15th November 2017, 12:12
Completed it, only took 5 minutes, but there are a couple of bits that jarred.

Did you choose your agency or were you forced to use them?
Neither, the agency is the one that happened to have the vacancy s is the one I ended up using. You might be better off asking this about Umbrella Co.s

How much do you pay your agency?
I don't, the client pays the agency fees. It's illegal for agencies to charge people to find work for them. Again, you might be better asking this about Umbrella Co.s

I accept that the question on agency is phrased poorly. It should have asked something along the lines of what is the difference between what the agency charges the end client and the contractors day rate.

The question about links between agency and end client is valid.

webberg
15th November 2017, 12:14
We want to be able to go contracting in a way that doesn’t put us at a disadvantage when working away from home, or we want rights that being inside IR35 ought to give us. And we want to do it legally.

Which doesn’t require the services of a tax advisor.

And since you’ve been rather cagey in the ‘what’s in it for me’ mutual benefits stakes, as befits a tax advisor, I’m taking a rather jaundiced eye on this request webberg...

Accepted.

I'll PM.

DaveB
15th November 2017, 12:43
I accept that the question on agency is phrased poorly. It should have asked something along the lines of what is the difference between what the agency charges the end client and the contractors day rate.

The question about links between agency and end client is valid.

Your unlikely to get any meaningful answers on the agency margin question, most contractors don't know and don't care. As long as the day rate is what you want and what you deliver is what the client wants it's largely irrelevant.

Yes there may be few edge cases where the agent is taking the micky and putting in a £150 a day contractor for £500 day role and keeping a huge slice for themselves but it's rare and the client will quickly question why they are paying that and not getting the service they expect for the money.

webberg
15th November 2017, 13:50
Your unlikely to get any meaningful answers on the agency margin question, most contractors don't know and don't care. As long as the day rate is what you want and what you deliver is what the client wants it's largely irrelevant.

Yes there may be few edge cases where the agent is taking the micky and putting in a £150 a day contractor for £500 day role and keeping a huge slice for themselves but it's rare and the client will quickly question why they are paying that and not getting the service they expect for the money.

I accept your view is correct in many cases.

I'm not really after the day rate but more the mechanisms and flows rather than the values.

Thank you for your interest.

Scruff
15th November 2017, 15:25
Your first post mentioned "...an hour..."

webberg
15th November 2017, 16:39
Your first post mentioned "...an hour..."

It did. My error.

There is a longer version with some examples and models which requires more time.

In the end I went with a cut down version.

webberg
16th November 2017, 08:28
I have been asked and will happily point out that what we are looking at is not a "scheme".

It's more of a complete change of mind set over how contractors work and are rewarded.

Short of very specific counter action from HMRC (not impossible) this is something that could easily last a whole career for some.

A key reason for caution now is that it is likely to face opposition (as do all new and disruptive technologies) from established players and clearly we want to solve and iron out problems before we go live.

Thank you.

cojak
16th November 2017, 08:47
Just to say that webberg has told me what's going on and I'm OK with this, it's no different from Andy H being coy about his startup IP.

Andy Hallett
16th November 2017, 20:53
I am out there! I am building a video platform none of you will use and a piece of permie matching software (you won’t use)

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6336932345718853632/

Just hope Phil doesn’t stick IR35 into the Private Sector on the 22nd as I’ll have to spend a load of time back on that gig.

eek
16th November 2017, 20:54
I am out there! I am building a video platform none of you will use and a piece of permie matching software (you won’t use)

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6336932345718853632/

Just hope Phil doesn’t stick IR35 into the Private Sector on the 22nd as I’ll have to spend a load of time back on that gig.

Don't know how to break it to you but I reckon its a done deal - attached to the Taylor report....

Andy Hallett
16th November 2017, 21:01
Don't know how to break it to you but I reckon its a done deal - attached to the Taylor report....

Yeah, the jungle drums have been signalling it to be fair.

Luckily I have a plan.....

eek
16th November 2017, 21:03
Yeah, the jungle drums have been signalling it to be fair.

Luckily I have a plan.....

Luckily I know of someone who has one if I needed to use it...

webberg
17th November 2017, 16:15
Many thanks to the 45 who have responded.

The link to the survey will be taken down this weekend.

The project here will now move into a period where confidentiality is required and that will mean no more posts here.

If you are interested in learning more at the cost of keeping quiet, please let me know.

Otherwise - thanks again to all.