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milanbenes
19th December 2017, 07:36
Morning All,

a BitCoin article for adults:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127443-bitcoin-big-short-moment-approaches

Lance, FrontLoader, Jogon and the other children, this is research material, you won't find it interesting.

Milan.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 07:47
You've got to sign up to read the full article, so **** that. The summary says:



Bitcoin has made many skeptics, myself included, look silly this year.
Price action alone doesn't make something more valuable in the long term.
Signs of 2006-level frenzy are now clearly evident in cryptocurrencies.
If you're long, consider taking profits. A massive correction is likely coming.


If you'd paid attention to anything we've said we all pretty much agree with this.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 07:52
You've got to sign up to read the full article, so **** that. The summary says:

If you'd paid attention to anything we've said we all pretty much agree with this.



sat here on the mainland the article opens just fine without signing up, maybe that's a Brexit thing

nevertheless, well worth a read for the adults amongst us

FrontLoader et al follow the money

Milan.

PhiltheGreek
19th December 2017, 08:00
I read it just fine. At least with tulips you got to keep the bulb :laugh

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 08:01
I read it just fine. At least with tulips you got to keep the bulb :laugh


they can use their nano wallets as usb sticks

Milan.

original PM
19th December 2017, 08:08
Works just fine for me....

Can anyone explain in simple terms what a Bitcoin is - and more importantly why it has value?

When 'money' first came into existence it was a pretty basic thing - e.g. based on the value of gold - or back in the day Romans got paid in salt - this was because these things had value and were useful and could be turned into or used to make other things better or different. So how does this (admittedly basic) definition work for cyrptocurrencies?

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 08:13
Let's all make sure we listen to the guy who wrote the article. The on that opens up saying how wrong he was before....

Agent
19th December 2017, 08:19
Works just fine for me....

Can anyone explain in simple terms what a Bitcoin is - and more importantly why it has value?

When 'money' first came into existence it was a pretty basic thing - e.g. based on the value of gold - or back in the day Romans got paid in salt - this was because these things had value and were useful and could be turned into or used to make other things better or different. So how does this (admittedly basic) definition work for cyrptocurrencies?

I don't understand your view point. Value is determined by demand. Why does anything have value? Collectable coins, stamps, comic books, collectable cars, books, antiques, property, art etc etc. None of these things have any intrinsic value, their value is in the fact that other people want them. No doubt things will change in the bitcoin / crypto world just as they do in the art world but because something goes up in value doesn't mean it's going to crash. (although I'm sure it will at some point).

Your view on wealth / value if only tied to physical monetary £/$ value is distorted and in my view pretty wrong. IF you think that the pound or dollar is backed by anything other than a promise then I'd go do some research!

original PM
19th December 2017, 08:29
I don't understand your view point. Value is determined by demand. Why does anything have value? Collectable coins, stamps, comic books, collectable cars, books, antiques, property, art etc etc. None of these things have any intrinsic value, their value is in the fact that other people want them. No doubt things will change in the bitcoin / crypto world just as they do in the art world but because something goes up in value doesn't mean it's going to crash. (although I'm sure it will at some point).

Your view on wealth / value if only tied to physical monetary £/$ value is distorted and in my view pretty wrong. IF you think that the pound or dollar is backed by anything other than a promise then I'd go do some research!

Ok fair point - my basic view sort of holds.

But then why would I need bitcoins - where does the demand come from?

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 08:33
Let's all make sure we listen to the guy who wrote the article. The on that opens up saying how wrong he was before....


FrontEndLoader,

the first sentence of the article,

"Bitcoin has made many skeptics, myself included, look silly this year.",

is not the conclusion.

Your homework for tonight is to develop the patience and persistence to read a whole 5 minute long written article.

Good luck, our ultimate goal will be you reading a whole LadyBird book.

Milan.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 08:37
Ok fair point - my basic view sort of holds.

But then why would I need bitcoins - where does the demand come from?


the demand comes because so far, holding BitCoin is not visible nor transparent

and that makes BitCoins a useful vehicle for transferring wealth across regions or holding wealth

at the airport the airport scanners will spot a wad of cash or a pile of gold or silver coins, but the USB stick
bitcoin wallet, or even keeping the wallet on the Exchange, nobody knows about it

hence, anybody who might have an interest in disguising their wealth is attracted to Bitcoin

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5163209/Bulgaria-Bitcoins-pay-FIFTH-debt.html (Bitcoins Bulgarian police seized from an 'organised crime gang' would now pay off a FIFTH of the country's national debt after value rises by 600% in six months

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5163209/Bulgaria-Bitcoins-pay-FIFTH-debt.html#ixzz51h6P0bZV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
)



Milan.

original PM
19th December 2017, 08:47
the demand comes because so far, holding BitCoin is not visible nor transparent

and that makes BitCoins a useful vehicle for transferring wealth across regions or holding wealth

at the airport the airport scanners will spot a wad of cash or a pile of gold or silver coins, but the USB stick
bitcoin wallet, or even keeping the wallet on the Exchange, nobody knows about it

hence, anybody who might have an interest in disguising their wealth is attracted to Bitcoin

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5163209/Bulgaria-Bitcoins-pay-FIFTH-debt.html (Bitcoins Bulgarian police seized from an 'organised crime gang' would now pay off a FIFTH of the country's national debt after value rises by 600% in six months

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5163209/Bulgaria-Bitcoins-pay-FIFTH-debt.html#ixzz51h6P0bZV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
)



Milan.

So I can use it to buy drugs and young children then?

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 08:49
FrontEndLoader,

the first sentence of the article,

"Bitcoin has made many skeptics, myself included, look silly this year.",

is not the conclusion.

Your homework for tonight is to develop the patience and persistence to read a whole 5 minute long written article.

Good luck, our ultimate goal will be you reading a whole LadyBird book.

Milan.

I've read the article, it offered nothing new to my understanding and hasn't changed my view one bit. I've read many like it already.

I'd rather spend 5 mins trading and make a big profit. Portfolio up 16% overnight without even putting any effort in.

EDIT: oh and **** off you pedantic twunt.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 08:52
I've read the article, it offered nothing new to my understanding and hasn't changed my view one bit. I've read many like it already.

I'd rather spend 5 mins trading and make a big profit. Portfolio up 16% overnight without even putting any effort in.

EDIT: oh and **** off you pedantic twunt.

FrontEndLoader,

let's not resort to insults it spoils the fun of CUK

good luck with the trading $$$

Milan.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 08:52
So I can use it to buy drugs and young children then?

unfortunately yes

that is the problem

Milan.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 08:56
FrontEndLoader,

let's not resort to insults it spoils the fun of CUK

good luck with the trading $$$

Milan.

:winker:

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 08:57
unfortunately yes

that is the problem

Milan.

You can use FIAT for that too.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 08:57
:winker:

oh dear

Milan.

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 08:58
Getting tired of all these bitcoin threads and I'm interested in what is happening with it. Expect it to become banned in general any time now. :eyes

There should be two threads, the one where those with skin in the game are discussing how to proceed and kept free of the trolling (I've been a good boy so far :tongue), and the one where we discuss the negative side to keep them honest.

Let's keep it simple and an unbanned topic in General. :smokin

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:00
oh dear

Milan.

That wasn't aimed at you. It was my reaction to seeing how much money I've made.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:01
Getting tired of all these bitcoin threads and I'm interested in what is happening with it. Expect it to become banned in general any time now. :eyes

There should be two threads, the one where those with skin in the game are discussing how to proceed and kept free of the trolling (I've been a good boy so far :tongue), and the one where we discuss the negative side to keep them honest.

Let's keep it simple and an unbanned topic in General. :smokin

I suspect that is milanbene's aim.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 09:01
Getting tired of all these bitcoin threads and I'm interested in what is happening with it. Expect it to become banned in general any time now. :eyes

There should be two threads, the one where those with skin in the game are discussing how to proceed and kept free of the trolling (I've been a good boy so far :tongue), and the one where we discuss the negative side to keep them honest.

Let's keep it simple and an unbanned topic in General. :smokin



the problem is those who are long consider any debate on the subject to be anti and then become all childish

maybe the longs need their own sub forum and in general we can discuss the subject as adults

Milan.

_V_
19th December 2017, 09:02
EDIT: oh and **** off you pedantic twunt.

It's funny how people seem to just warm to this milanbenes chap....

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:12
the problem is those who are long consider any debate on the subject to be anti and then become all childish

maybe the longs need their own sub forum and in general we can discuss the subject as adults

Milan.

The problem is people like you come in and feel the need to educate us poor souls with your superior knowledge. Yet you offer absolutely nothing to what we already know and frequently display a complete lack of understanding on the subject.

We just hear the same tired arguments over and over. But the funny thing is that we actually agree on a lot of the main points.

-It's a speculative bubble that will burst at some point
-It's best to take out any profit before it does
-Most cryptocurrencies will probably be worth little to nothing in the future

The difference is that I(we) intend to make as much profit from this golden opportunity while you sit on the sidelines looking like this:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 09:16
the problem is those who are long consider any debate on the subject to be anti and then become all childish

maybe the longs need their own sub forum and in general we can discuss the subject as adults

Milan.


This should be over quicker than the other b word so no need for a dedicated sub forum. :smokin

Why go long on something that is showing typical bubble signs? :freaky: You can only cash out on the way up, no one will be buying on the way down, that's why bubbles crash. Only a few lucky ones survive the way down without losing most of their investment.

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 09:21
The difference is that I(we) intend to make as much profit from this golden opportunity while you sit on the sidelines looking like this:


The difference is you were lucky to get in when the cost was relatively little, or have much bigger balls than those of us that would have gotten in when the cost was relatively little but now are priced out as it's beyond our risk threshold.

Just remember to take your own advice and get out before the rush for the exit. :smokin

_V_
19th December 2017, 09:28
This should be over quicker than the other b word so no need for a dedicated sub forum. :smokin

Why go long on something that is showing typical bubble signs? :freaky: You can only cash out on the way up, no one will be buying on the way down, that's why bubbles crash. Only a few lucky ones survive the way down without losing most of their investment.

The price will crash when the exchanges freeze due to legal injunctions by govts intent on "protecting citizens", "halting terrorist funding", "putting a stop to money laundering", etc. When the exchanges freeze, no buyers, price will vanish. At the same time, no one will be able to sell, so the price will fall so quickly almost no one will be able to crystalise any profits.

I'd say this will happen before the end of next year, after the G7 or G20 meeting next year.

Till then, it's a game of buckaroo...

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 09:28
The problem is people like you come in and feel the need to educate us poor souls with your superior knowledge. Yet you offer absolutely nothing to what we already know and frequently display a complete lack of understanding on the subject.

We just hear the same tired arguments over and over. But the funny thing is that we actually agree on a lot of the main points.

-It's a speculative bubble that will burst at some point
-It's best to take out any profit before it does
-Most cryptocurrencies will probably be worth little to nothing in the future

The difference is that I(we) intend to make as much profit from this golden opportunity while you sit on the sidelines looking like this:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png


FrontLoader,

the first sentence is wrong, the bullet points agree, the last sentence is wrong.

I am very happy for other people's success and only wish for success and happiness to come to others.

Milan.

Jog On
19th December 2017, 09:30
There must be a term for anti-crypto rage and fist shaking. Even the Daily mash are at it:

Smug bitcoin bastards must get their comeuppance before New Year, demands Britain (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/smug-bitcoin-bastards-must-get-their-comeuppance-before-new-year-demands-britain-20171218141177)

I mean why do you people care so much about it? If you don't want to get involved then don't get involved with it. All this predicting and wanting it to crash (so you can have a chance at buying in when it's 'cheap') so badly just stinks of very very sour grapes.

Can't we just leave it at - Yes you don't trust it and are not invested in it - that's fine, and Yes we're in and we are very aware of the risks and have decided to take the 'gamble' and if it all goes up in smoke then we knew what we were getting in to.

But no you'll keep raging at it because you think it's too late and you've missed the boat and it angers you that others haven't are making silly returns that really shouldn't be happening. And I'll agree they are silly, I'm up about 120% in just over a month. believe me that's outside my comfort zone for sure!

Thing is in a few months time you'll look back at the price and wish you'd taken the plunge now - even with a little bit of beer money.

If the idea others to failing and losing everything makes you feel better then I'm glad I'm not you. I don't think any of us are in this with money we can't afford to lose - but if it takes off we'll do very well indeed.

Do yourself a favor and at least learn & understand the tech - you might find it's a 'hot skill' you need to learn anyway before long.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:30
The difference is you were lucky to get in when the cost was relatively little, or have much bigger balls than those of us that would have gotten in when the cost was relatively little but now are priced out as it's beyond our risk threshold.

Just remember to take your own advice and get out before the rush for the exit. :smokin

Absolutely, I don't have enough in to be bothered if I do lose it all though. Less than 4 days invoicing, meh.

I have a specific and not unreasonable aim in mind - a house deposit. I may consider cashing out completely when I get to the amount I want.

I doubt I'll be out completely, but definitely aim to be in a risk free position (i.e. taking out my original investment) very shortly.

Jog On
19th December 2017, 09:33
The difference is you were lucky to get in when the cost was relatively little, or have much bigger balls than those of us that would have gotten in when the cost was relatively little but now are priced out as it's beyond our risk threshold.

Just remember to take your own advice and get out before the rush for the exit. :smokin

There are alt coins that are going for pennies that are just getting started. They are going up quicker than BTC so you trade them to grow your BTC balance. I've made 0.5 BTC the last couple of weeks from alt coins, you just need to make the initial BTC purchase to be able to trade them.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:35
Thing is in a few months time you'll look back at the price and wish you'd taken the plunge now - even with a little bit of beer money.


I've said it to a few people it's well worth throwing in a small amount even now and the barrier for entry is ver very low. This has the potential to go to a crazy amount before it crashes. Even £50 could return a stupid amount.

Just be careful and never ever ever put in more than you're comfortable losing.

Jog On
19th December 2017, 09:36
Absolutely, I don't have enough in to be bothered if I do lose it all though. Less than 4 days invoicing, meh.

I have a specific and not unreasonable aim in mind - a house deposit. I may consider cashing out completely when I get to the amount I want.

I doubt I'll be out completely, but definitely aim to be in a risk free position (i.e. taking out my original investment) very shortly.

I have a similar plan to cash out along the way and build up a decent size FX trading account and covered call option stock portfolio. About 30k in each should do it.

had a family Xmas bash on the weekend and uncle-in-law who's a very established stock broker was very interested in this. The one piece advice was "For goodness sake take some profit as you go along".

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:42
I have a similar plan to cash out along the way and build up a decent size FX trading account and covered call option stock portfolio. About 30k in each should do it.

had a family Xmas bash on the weekend and uncle-in-law who's a very established stock broker was very interested in this. The one piece advice was "For goodness sake take some profit as you go along".

Yeah, I've just ordered an altcoin debit card. Load it up with GBP and spend. I'm gonna treat myself to a few things with that first of all. Then take out a chunk of cash.

I don't see things slowing down. People might have more time to get involved over the festive period, so the money will come in. January is perhaps the first point where the new money might slow down - when everyone has sobered up :laugh

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 09:44
There must be a term for anti-crypto rage and fist shaking. Even the Daily mash are at it:

Smug bitcoin bastards must get their comeuppance before New Year, demands Britain (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/smug-bitcoin-bastards-must-get-their-comeuppance-before-new-year-demands-britain-20171218141177)

I mean why do you people care so much about it? If you don't want to get involved then don't get involved with it. All this predicting and wanting it to crash (so you can have a chance at buying in when it's 'cheap') so badly just stinks of very very sour grapes.

Can't we just leave it at - Yes you don't trust it and are not invested in it - that's fine, and Yes we're in and we are very aware of the risks and have decided to take the 'gamble' and if it all goes up in smoke then we knew what we were getting in to.

But no you'll keep raging at it because you think it's too late and you've missed the boat and it angers you that others haven't are making silly returns that really shouldn't be happening. And I'll agree they are silly, I'm up about 120% in just over a month. believe me that's outside my comfort zone for sure!

Thing is in a few months time you'll look back at the price and wish you'd taken the plunge now - even with a little bit of beer money.

If the idea others to failing and losing everything makes you feel better then I'm glad I'm not you. I don't think any of us are in this with money we can't afford to lose - but if it takes off we'll do very well indeed.

Do yourself a favor and at least learn & understand the tech - you might find it's a 'hot skill' you need to learn anyway before long.



the only raging seems to be coming from the bulls

the bears here are peacefully discussing the subject

pots and kettles

how's this, longs we love you, good job, now will you let us get on with discussing the subject

we can make today a hug a long day

Milan.

Lance
19th December 2017, 09:45
Morning All,

a BitCoin article for adults:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127443-bitcoin-big-short-moment-approaches

Lance, FrontLoader, Jogon and the other children, this is research material, you won't find it interesting.

Milan.

yawn......
some bloke (failed hedge fund worker) writes an article saying it's a bubble. He might be right, but it's hardly new news.

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 09:45
I appreciate you guys trying to teach an old dog not to just bark at the moon, but the only way the bubble persists is while people think there's a long way up to go. No one knows if that's the case or not so yes it's a gamble of unknown risk.

As for getting a small amount in the game just in case it does shoot to the moon. I'm not that confident the recent plateau (since futures for bitcoins became a thing) is just a temporary blip in that rise. The longer it stays fairly level the more chance of it going down than up as those that piled in for quick returns lose patience. So to make good money at the moment you need to risk more, if you weren't in before the recent massive rises.

As for alt coins. Some of the tech solutions may well be winners but I fear all the current coins will be hammered when bitcoin goes down. People as speculating in the alts as well as bitcoin and its forks, so all will be tarnished as doomed when the inevitable end occurs for bitcoin that is attracting all the chancers and dreamers.

Then maybe a relaunch of one of the long term feasible solutions will rise from the ashes and go on to world domination. That's the point I'm now waiting for, when all those burnt in the first phase fear of re-entering so price is much cheaper than current risk. :smokin

Good luck to all those in the game in the meantime. There has been and may still be silly money to be made while it's so volatile. Just too rich for my liking. I'm used to £25 payout a month on premium bonds, if I'm lucky. :eyes

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:50
the only raging seems to be coming from the bulls

the bears here are peacefully discussing the subject

pots and kettles

how's this, longs we love you, good job, now will you let us get on with discussing the subject

we can make today a hug a long day

Milan.

nonsense. The thread title is "bitcoin article for adults". You've repeatedly called us children and you adults and come out with condescending comments about ladybird books.

Your either trolling or being a twunt, or both. Nothing peaceful about that.

Lance
19th December 2017, 09:51
the demand comes because so far, holding BitCoin is not visible nor transparent Wrong on both counts. It is visible and transparent. How's the research doing? You don't seem to have grasped the basics yet.


You seem quite giddy about
a) it's not really a currency anyway, and
b) it's used by criminals

Oddly enough the criminals are the ones who do use it as a currency so your argument disappears into a loop of logic.
Your other argument is that it's a bubble and I don't believe anyone has argued against that.

everything else is just a dribbling lack of understanding and snarky comments that make you sound like a twunt.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 09:54
nonsense. The thread title is "bitcoin article for adults". You've repeatedly called us children and you adults and come out with condescending comments about ladybird books.

Your either trolling or being a twunt, or both. Nothing peaceful about that.



ok, FrontLoader,

I humbly apologise for behaving in an offensive manner calling you children

and secondly I humbly apologise for behaving in a condescending manner and suggesting that you read LadyBird books

apologies for the rage I have demonstrated in these two respects

Can we now discuss the pro's and cons of the subjects together ?

Milan.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 09:56
ok, FrontLoader,

I humbly apologise for behaving in an offensive manner calling you children

and secondly I humbly apologise for behaving in a condescending manner and suggesting that you read LadyBird books

apologies for the rage I have demonstrated in these two respects

Can we now discuss the pro's and cons of the subjects together ?

Milan.

I forgot deliberately getting my username wrong. Although I'm not sure it it's meant to be an insult or not.

I'll discuss with you or anyone else when you have something meaningful to contribute.

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 09:59
What pros and cons?

The pros are there's money to be made if you are skilled enough to get in and out at the right time and have a reliable way of actually getting the coins back into £s.

The cons are there's money to be lost if you get the above wrong.

The actual tech is irrelevant in the current speculation driven phase as the long term goals and potential for bitcoin or any of the alts are not relevant to the desire for a quick win that is driving much of the demand. So no point discussing the pros and cons of the current tech, we can do that when the dust settles and see what players may have legs.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 09:59
I forgot deliberately getting my username wrong. Although I'm not sure it it's meant to be an insult or not.

I'll discuss with you or anyone else when you have something meaningful to contribute.


I grew up around heavy machinery and FrontEnder just reminds me of one of these (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=front+end+loader&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM8sj-55XYAhWFmLQKHVZ9CzUQ_AUICigB&biw=1476&bih=770)

so we have a deal, you will not berate open discussions on the pro's and cons of the alternative coins ?

Milan.

woohoo
19th December 2017, 10:05
Just putting it out there...

What if we all pulled together, invested in a water wheel/tunnel thing to generate electricity. I've got a decent graphics card and started mining for bitcoins.

If someone could do a breakdown of how many water wheel/tunnel/solar things we need and graphics card that would be helpful.

Let's do this! This time next year, rodders!

Jog On
19th December 2017, 10:09
From what I've read and heard (don't have links sorry) it's sounding like governments are:

1. Looking at ways of regulating crypto so it can't be used anonymously to fund crime/terrorism etc (good thing) and also...

2. Keeping tabs on who has what (which is what blockchain is actually meant for) so they can tax it. The US government (no links sorry heard it on a podcast) wants to tax every single trade, so for alt coin trades every individual trade is taxed, not just the money you get when you cash out from the trading account.

So they see all this consumer money going into it and they are letting it happen (they could have cracked down like China have by now) because they will tax it heavily - and maybe even retrospectively.

And I'd expect the UK/EU to follow suit although maybe not because our government allows spread betting tax free - but that is because 95% of spreadbetters lose money. In the crypto bull run everyone is winning so it won't suprise me at all if HMRC become very draconian and greedy when they figure out how to tax it.

Then again how many MPs are holding bitcoin now? The non-anonymous public ledger will tell us no doubt! last I heard about our government was they are no hurry to regulate Bitcoin (https://www.ft.com/content/33c8f65b-2448-33fd-a627-46235ef91111). That smells fishy to me.

Current stance (https://www.dnsassociates.co.uk/blog/bitcoins-tax-implications-uk) is unclear and suitably muddy (typical HMRC) as to whether crypto trading gains are 'gambling' and tax free like spreadbetting or long term investments and subject to CGT. I also read somewhere else (can't find it sorry) that they would look at it on a case by case basis ensuring all tax payers are equal but some are more equal than others.

So nice and clear as mud there from our good friends at HMRC

But no one actually knows what will really happen so I'm keeping calm and hodling on.

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 10:10
I grew up around heavy machinery and FrontEnder just reminds me of one of these (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=front+end+loader&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM8sj-55XYAhWFmLQKHVZ9CzUQ_AUICigB&biw=1476&bih=770)

so we have a deal, you will not berate open discussions on the pro's and cons of the alternative coins ?

Milan.

I haven't done this previously, so why do you think I will in the future?

woohoo
19th December 2017, 10:15
Just putting it out there...

What if we all pulled together, invested in a water wheel/tunnel thing to generate electricity. I've got a decent graphics card and started mining for bitcoins.

If someone could do a breakdown of how many water wheel/tunnel/solar things we need and graphics card that would be helpful.

Let's do this! This time next year, rodders!

I assume the lack of response to my post is because you all are busy researching this.

_V_
19th December 2017, 10:17
Just putting it out there...

What if we all pulled together, invested in a water wheel/tunnel thing to generate electricity. I've got a decent graphics card and started mining for bitcoins.

If someone could do a breakdown of how many water wheel/tunnel/solar things we need and graphics card that would be helpful.

Let's do this! This time next year, rodders!

Current global bitcoin mining is using more electricity than many small countries. It would take you about 5 years to recoup the cost of a graphic card, let alone make any money.

Those days are long gone. Just click buy, go to bed, wake up, boom, free money for everyone!

Lance
19th December 2017, 10:19
I forgot deliberately getting my username wrong. Although I'm not sure it it's meant to be an insult or not.

I'll discuss with you or anyone else when you have something meaningful to contribute.

hahaha. Not gonna happen.


MILAN: Here's why everyone is stupid on subject <insert subject milan knows nothing about>
OTHERS: err. you sure about that? That's not how it works
MILAN: Here's an article written by some who knows very little also but supports my bias
OTHERS: yawn.. go away you boring twunt
MILAN: You're all children who should listen to experience
OTHERS: Go the **** away
MILAN: When you stop being abusive we can have a sensible conversation .....

wash, rinse and repeat.....

woohoo
19th December 2017, 10:22
Current global bitcoin mining is using more electricity than many small countries. It would take you about 5 years to recoup the cost of a graphic card, let alone make any money.

Those days are long gone. Just click buy, go to bed, wake up, boom, free money for everyone!

You clearly missed my brilliant idea of purchasing water wheels/tunnels to generate electricity. We just leave it running and in 5 years, billionaires.

Think about it, we have loads of running water. Let's do this.

I will start off the research for you all...
Building a Waterwheel | REUK.co.uk (http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/hydro/building-a-waterwheel/)

_V_
19th December 2017, 10:24
You clearly missed my brilliant idea of purchasing water wheels/tunnels to generate electricity. We just leave it running and in 5 years, billionaires.

Think about it, we have loads of running water. Let's do this.

I will start off the research for you all...
Building a Waterwheel | REUK.co.uk (http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/hydro/building-a-waterwheel/)

Can't we just let unicorns shit them out of their arses like it works now?

FrontEnder
19th December 2017, 10:29
I assume the lack of response to my post is because you all are busy researching this.

As far as I know, mining in this country is not viable due to electricity and equipment costs.

You need a dedicated mining rig rather than a laptop/PC. Maybe some other coins it could be done, but I doubt it.

original PM
19th December 2017, 10:38
So

"How many bitcoins are there?
When the algorithm was created under the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto—which in Japanese is as common a name as Steve Smith—the individual(s) set a finite limit on the number of bitcoins that will ever exist: 21 million. Currently, more than 12 million are in circulation. That means that a little less than 9 million bitcoins are waiting to be discovered."

Full article here

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/23/cnbc-explains-how-to-mine-bitcoins-on-your-own.html

I just do not understand this at all - he just made something up and now it is a currency

Is the attraction simply that it is 'untraceable' currency? is that what gives it actual value?

BR14
19th December 2017, 10:42
sat here on the mainland the article opens just fine without signing up, maybe that's a Brexit thing

nevertheless, well worth a read for the adults amongst us

FrontLoader et al follow the money

Milan.

wot????? :eek

BR14
19th December 2017, 10:43
I grew up around heavy machinery and FrontEnder just reminds me of one of these (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=front+end+loader&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM8sj-55XYAhWFmLQKHVZ9CzUQ_AUICigB&biw=1476&bih=770)

so we have a deal, you will not berate open discussions on the pro's and cons of the alternative coins ?

Milan.

you sure about that?

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 10:46
you sure about that?

yes ok you got me on that technicality

Milan.

milanbenes
19th December 2017, 10:47
I haven't done this previously, so why do you think I will in the future?

very good we are in agreement

Milan.

Jog On
19th December 2017, 10:50
As far as I know, mining in this country is not viable due to electricity and equipment costs.

You need a dedicated mining rig rather than a laptop/PC. Maybe some other coins it could be done, but I doubt it.

Mining for BTC requires serious power. That is something that needs looking at ASAP.

Jog On
19th December 2017, 10:57
So

"How many bitcoins are there?
When the algorithm was created under the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto—which in Japanese is as common a name as Steve Smith—the individual(s) set a finite limit on the number of bitcoins that will ever exist: 21 million. Currently, more than 12 million are in circulation. That means that a little less than 9 million bitcoins are waiting to be discovered."

Full article here

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/23/cnbc-explains-how-to-mine-bitcoins-on-your-own.html

I just do not understand this at all - he just made something up and now it is a currency

Is the attraction simply that it is 'untraceable' currency? is that what gives it actual value?

It's that there is a finite amount and it's decentralised and bypasses banks. Anonymity won't be around for much longer but that's not a bad thing. People are embracing it because it's a way of transacting without having to store money in a bank, pay their fees and let them lend it out 9x over.

Bitcoin came out in 2009 as a result of the crash and credit crunch - it's basically taking power away from the bankers and enabling financial transactions (and smart contracts) peer-to-peer.

It's still in it's infancy so there are lots of teething problems but the big rush into we're seeing now is Joe public clambering in while it's still relatively cheap and probably institutional/big money buying up huge swathes of it so they can try and dominate it.

Bean
19th December 2017, 10:58
So

"How many bitcoins are there?
When the algorithm was created under the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto—which in Japanese is as common a name as Steve Smith—the individual(s) set a finite limit on the number of bitcoins that will ever exist: 21 million. Currently, more than 12 million are in circulation. That means that a little less than 9 million bitcoins are waiting to be discovered."

Full article here

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/23/cnbc-explains-how-to-mine-bitcoins-on-your-own.html

I just do not understand this at all - he just made something up and now it is a currency

Is the attraction simply that it is 'untraceable' currency? is that what gives it actual value?

Think of it as a fad, to most people. An electronic currency, that costs real money and is able to be used to buy things in certain places.

Decentralised (not government-owned nor controlled nor manipulated like QE [yet]) I think would be the main reason for others wanting in.

I believe there's a few browser-based mining websites now that'll give you something (not bitcoins though, just some altcoins) for your CPU time....

Google Crypto Kitties if you want to lose the will to live :laugh

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 11:41
... the big rush into we're seeing now is Joe public clambering in while it's still relatively cheap ...

While they're seeing mad gains. Easy money attracts dumb investors.

Smarter investors tag along and get out while there's still dumb investors to sell to. ;)

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 11:44
Mining for BTC requires serious power. That is something that needs looking at ASAP.

Surprised the green lobby aren't up in arms about the damage it's doing to the planet.

So while the algorithm is designed to allow a finite amount of bitcoins to be mined, the reality is that it becomes uneconomical way before that limit is reached so the actual limit is not far from where it's at now.

Hence the value shooting up as more people want to make a quick buck, basic supply and demand. Though who is selling them their coins if it has such a great future and an investment worth 'hodling'? :rolleyes:

Jog On
19th December 2017, 12:21
Surprised the green lobby aren't up in arms about the damage it's doing to the planet.

So while the algorithm is designed to allow a finite amount of bitcoins to be mined, the reality is that it becomes uneconomical way before that limit is reached so the actual limit is not far from where it's at now.

Hence the value shooting up as more people want to make a quick buck, basic supply and demand. Though who is selling them their coins if it has such a great future and an investment worth 'hodling'? :rolleyes:

The exchanges and people on P2P networks (bisque). Scooter was selling some last week. I might cash some out soonish as well.

_V_
19th December 2017, 13:55
I think it's important to differentiate between bitcoin vs blockchain. Also the PoW coins vs PoS coins.

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoins-future-proof-of-stake-vs-proof-of-work/

Worth reading this too.

https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/bitcoin-blockchain-issues/18019/

Agent
19th December 2017, 14:36
Surprised the green lobby aren't up in arms about the damage it's doing to the planet.

So while the algorithm is designed to allow a finite amount of bitcoins to be mined, the reality is that it becomes uneconomical way before that limit is reached so the actual limit is not far from where it's at now.

Hence the value shooting up as more people want to make a quick buck, basic supply and demand. Though who is selling them their coins if it has such a great future and an investment worth 'hodling'? :rolleyes:

A strange comment, 'who will sell when it will be worth more in the future', that's economics 101, people will always buy and always sell, it's the way an economy works.

It's another 100 years until all Bitcoins will be mined, think about electricity production and renewable energy advancements during this time. In the UK alone in 1920, 99% of all energy was from coal, in 2016 that figure is 10% - with the increase in nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, biomass etc there's no telling where our energy will come from in 100 years time and how much it will cost. One thing is for sure, things will advance, and become more efficient. Add on to that, 100 years of GPU and CPU advancement, it's some unimaginable that it doesn't even warrant worrying about.

glebe digital
19th December 2017, 15:31
The way I see it, anything that was originally worth nothing, will eventually return to zero. Even mud has a price & some intrinsic value.

Looking forward to the end of the current unpleasantness, and will probably laugh an awful lot at the sob stories.

_V_
19th December 2017, 15:40
The way I see it, anything that was originally worth nothing, will eventually return to zero. Even mud has a price & some intrinsic value.

Looking forward to the end of the current unpleasantness, and will probably laugh an awful lot at the sob stories.

Dailymail sad faces to follow....

https://dailymailsadface.tumblr.com/

Platypus
19th December 2017, 15:56
FrontEndLoader,

the first sentence of the article,

"Bitcoin has made many skeptics, myself included, look silly this year.",

is not the conclusion.

Your homework for tonight is to develop the patience and persistence to read a whole 5 minute long written article.

Good luck, our ultimate goal will be you reading a whole LadyBird book.

Milan.

Milan, I have signed up for Seeking Alpha, and I read lots of articles on there. They are mostly written by amateur pundits looking for clicks to make money. They are mostly wrong about most everything. But bear in mind that a stopped clock is right twice a day.

#JustSayin

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 16:35
... It's another 100 years until all Bitcoins will be mined ...

It will be a lot sooner than that when all these 'mines' are closed and they move onto something else. :rolleyes:

glebe digital
19th December 2017, 16:42
It will be a lot sooner than that when all these 'mines' are closed and they move onto something else. :rolleyes:

Surely that last coin will take infinity to never actually be mined, and an infinite amount of energy? Sounds like trouble.

Hobosapien
19th December 2017, 16:47
Surely that last coin will take infinity to never actually be mined, and an infinite amount of energy? Sounds like trouble.

Yep, the curve gets so steep it makes sense to spend the effort on something else. They'll never get anywhere near the end of mining all the possible coins. Just a prediction but it seems likely. Unless someone finds a flaw in the algorithm to make it easier to mine the rest, or a new tech that makes it effortless compared to the current approach.

The mining is a load of bollox anyway. They may as well have just launched the 21 million coins at a fraction of a pence, first come first served, and be in the same position they are now. :rolleyes: