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BlasterBates
7th March 2018, 11:25
Trump supporters are all throwing their hats in the air. It will all be over by Christmas, and the USA will win.

Trump declares a trade war (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/07/trumps-trade-tariffs-could-be-americas-brexit-nomuras-janjuah-says.html)

:ladybags:

scooterscot
7th March 2018, 11:40
Stock market crash here we come. And where US stocks go the FTSE will shurly follow.

BlasterBates
7th March 2018, 11:53
It has to be said that Trump isn't the first President to impose tariffs, they've all done it.

It will however be interesting to see how far Trump takes it, especially now that Cohn has walked out.

Paddy
7th March 2018, 12:28
It has to be said that Trump isn't the first President to impose tariffs, they've all done it.

It will however be interesting to see how far Trump takes it, especially now that Cohen has walked out.

This is what happens when a country relies on WTO rules.

For all those who voted for B****t should be made to suck Trump's sausage

tomtomagain
7th March 2018, 13:31
It will however be interesting to see how far Trump takes it, especially now that Cohen has walked out.


That's not a positive result. One less rational person in the Whitehouse, one less dissenting voice to counter Trumps remaining team.

BoredBloke
7th March 2018, 13:32
Its a shame trump didn't support American steel when he was building his buildings, instead using the cheap stuff from China and Mexico.

clearedforlanding
7th March 2018, 15:08
Instead of bourbon and motorcycles, the EU might find it more effective to tariff revenue from US owned golf courses...

scooterscot
7th March 2018, 21:33
Are we still on for a special deal?

https://i.imgur.com/XuNtxrB.jpg

vetran
7th March 2018, 22:53
This is what happens when a country relies on WTO rules.

For all those who voted for B****t should be made to suck Trump's sausage

hey keep your fantasies to yourself you pervert!

BlasterBates
8th March 2018, 09:28
Reliance Steel and Aluminium up 10% this month. It's an ill wind as they say.

:banana2:

Go Trump go

:cretin:

BlasterBates
6th April 2018, 08:02
China vows to fight to the last man (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-05/trump-orders-consideration-of-100-billion-in-new-china-tariffs)

They don't mince their words.

in the meantime the markets think it's all "bluster".

Who's going to blink ?

:D

northernladyuk
6th April 2018, 08:28
China vows to fight to the last man (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-05/trump-orders-consideration-of-100-billion-in-new-china-tariffs)

They don't mince their words.

in the meantime the markets think it's all "bluster".

Who's going to blink ?

:D

China and the US will trade fight each other into exhaustion, leaving the door open for Brexit Britain's tea, jam and biscuit (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/british-tea-jam-and-biscuits-will-be-at-the-heart-of-britains-br/) centred global trade dominance at the head of Empire 2.0 (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-aim-to-build-empire-2-0-with-african-commonwealth-after-brexit-v9bs6f6z9).

sasguru
6th April 2018, 08:40
It is indeed very interesting, not to mention amusing, how the rise of the cretinocracy in the Anglo-Saxon countries (US and UK) is going to hasten their loss of influence and power.
What is also interesting is how the right now embrace naive socialist ideas like protectionism, simply because they want the votes of the uncompetitive cretinocracy.
If protectionsim worked, North Korea would be the most successful state in the world. :laugh:laugh

Lance
6th April 2018, 08:45
What is also interesting is how the right now embrace naive socialist ideas like protectionism, simply because they want the votes of the uncompetitive cretinocracy.

Ahh well. Voter apathy will rescue us, eventually. As long as there’s no more referendums (which there won’t be, ever).

BlasterBates
31st May 2018, 14:05
boom, the opening salvo !

US imposes tariffs on Mexico, Canada and EU (https://www.ft.com/content/7ba37aa2-64ac-11e8-a39d-4df188287fff)

I predict squeals from "Trumpland" America in a few months time.

:D

WTFH
31st May 2018, 14:27
For those without an FT login...
US tariffs: Steel and aluminium levies slapped on key allies - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44320221)

And for the Daily Mail version:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5790989/Trump-set-slap-tariffs-EU-steel-aluminium-TODAY-amid-fears-trade-war.html
(where it only affects the EU, and the comments seem to be from people who believe that the UK is not currently part of the EU, "they don't like it up 'em", etc)

BlasterBates
31st May 2018, 19:36
It looks like the EU will be reducing imports from third countries and increasing imports from the US to resolve the dispute.

DimPrawn
31st May 2018, 20:40
Its a shame trump didn't support American steel when he was building his buildings, instead using the cheap stuff from China and Mexico.

Trump now cares deeply about the man in the street, he's not the selfish, arrogant, pig headed billionaire he once was.

:rolleyes:

PurpleGorilla
31st May 2018, 20:45
Need to stock up on bourbon - winter is coming...

TwoWolves
31st May 2018, 20:50
It is indeed very interesting, not to mention amusing, how the rise of the cretinocracy in the Anglo-Saxon countries (US and UK) is going to hasten their loss of influence and power.
What is also interesting is how the right now embrace naive socialist ideas like protectionism, simply because they want the votes of the uncompetitive cretinocracy.
If protectionism worked, North Korea would be the most successful state in the world. :laugh:laugh

You do display a certain amount of naivety yourself. Particularly when you rush to be rude to people when you yourself are on thin ice.

Protectionism and tariffs have been around a long time and I don't think I can recall a time when major powers have rescinded them. The worst offender of them all is China who is displaying breathtaking hypocrisy with the EU in close second place. It's way past time the US put a stop to this but unfortunately it may well be far too late now, nevertheless, I wouldn't be so quick to overestimate the EM axis powers - they are on shaky ground as well.

BlasterBates
31st May 2018, 22:36
....the EU in close second place. It's way past time the US put a stop to this.

Interesting.

says who? Trump presumably

Can you justify this ?

The EU isn’t protectionist – it’s one of the most open economies in the world (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/08/14/the-eu-isnt-protectionist-its-one-of-the-most-open-economies-in-the-world/)

TwoWolves
1st June 2018, 06:44
Interesting.

says who? Trump presumably



What do you think the Customs Union is?

This isn't specifically what the US administration is focussing on, however. It's the abuse of NAFTA, both China and the EU ship components to Mexico and Canada for assembly and then sell the finished goods in the US under the NAFTA agreement. This circumvents trade agreements in place for direct trade. That's the current beef.

WTFH
1st June 2018, 07:12
What do you think the Customs Union is?


It's something that currently allows minor countries with poor negotiating skills the ability to conduct around 50% of their export trade with the rest of the EU and not incurring any duty.

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 07:44
What do you think the Customs Union is?

This isn't specifically what the US administration is focussing on, however. It's the abuse of NAFTA, both China and the EU ship components to Mexico and Canada for assembly and then sell the finished goods in the US under the NAFTA agreement. This circumvents trade agreements in place for direct trade. That's the current beef.

So you are saying Canada and Mexico are "protectionist", you forgot to blame Japan, Australia and India as well :D

There are rules that ensure that anything exported from Mexico and Canada to the US have sufficient amount of local content.
The US companies do more of this than EU companies, and you can apply the same argument to US companies shipping foreign components to their factories in the EU or Canada.

No-one is circumventing any rules apart from the US applying unilateral tariffs.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 08:18
This isn't specifically what the US administration is focussing on, however. It's the abuse of NAFTA, both China and the EU ship components to Mexico and Canada for assembly and then sell the finished goods in the US under the NAFTA agreement. This circumvents trade agreements in place for direct trade. That's the current beef.

And how does increased tariffs on steel and alumunium imports into the US help that? Doh!
It's not going to help US manufacturers, is it?
https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/03/02/electrolux-tennessee-springfield-plant-trump-tariff-aluminum-steel/391059002/
I find it interesting that the biggest critics of this are congressional Republicans.

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 08:45
I find it interesting how a lot of people in the UK support the US in blocking their exports and forcing UK job losses.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 09:00
I find it interesting how a lot of people in the UK support the US in blocking their exports and forcing UK job losses.

Ideological stupidity.

NigelJK
1st June 2018, 09:24
Where does it say they are blocking exports?

Old Greg
1st June 2018, 09:29
Where does it say they are blocking exports?

You need to apply some basic economic analysis to understand this one. Give us a shout if we can help.

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 09:30
Where does it say they are blocking exports?

There is plenty of footage on the news channels.

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 09:32
Listening to comments about this on LBC.

:cretin:

:D

meridian
1st June 2018, 09:38
What do you think the Customs Union is?

This isn't specifically what the US administration is focussing on, however. It's the abuse of NAFTA, both China and the EU ship components to Mexico and Canada for assembly and then sell the finished goods in the US under the NAFTA agreement. This circumvents trade agreements in place for direct trade. That's the current beef.

Huh.

Not blocking Russia though. Funny, that...

http://amp.nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/trump-administration-eases-sanctions-on-russian-metal-giant.html?


“RUSAL has felt the impact of U.S. sanctions because of its entanglement with Oleg Deripaska, but the U.S. government is not targeting the hardworking people who depend on RUSAL and its subsidiaries,”

Hardworking people who depend on EU (including U.K.) companies can go **** themselves, though...

sasguru
1st June 2018, 09:41
Listening to comments about this on LBC.

:cretin:

:D

DO share ....

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 09:45
DO share ....

We should follow Trump, shove up trade barriers and get our shipping industry back by building small motor-boats to support the local fishing industry.

:D

ContractorOnAMotorbike
1st June 2018, 09:54
It is indeed very interesting, not to mention amusing, how the rise of the cretinocracy in the Anglo-Saxon countries (US and UK) is going to hasten their loss of influence and power.
What is also interesting is how the right now embrace naive socialist ideas like protectionism, simply because they want the votes of the uncompetitive cretinocracy.
If protectionsim worked, North Korea would be the most successful state in the world. :laugh:laugh

You're using an extreme example to claim that protectionism doesn't work. Here's a less extreme example... Take a look at the motorcycle industry in India. The Indian government permitted collaboration so long as the major shareholder was an indian entity and banned chinese manufacturers outright. The end result was that you now have top japanese companies like Honda, Yamaha etc and top european companies like BMW, KTM and so on working with indian manufacturers like Bajaj and TVS churning out thousands of quality bikes for the local market and motorbikes for export. Protectionism does work if it is done right.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 09:59
There is some evidence that protectionism works in the initial stages of a country's development, when keeping out foreign competition may help indigenous industry to take root.
After that period in a country's development though, the evidence is overwhelming that it doesn't work, making everyone poorer.
Tariffs are a tax and eventually the consumer pays.
Look at the US - put tariffs on steel and aluminium - initially there might be some local investment in those industries, but the lack of competition means in the long run costs will go up and quality will go down (competition keeps you on your toes), companies who use these raw products will have to raise their prices, US products will become uncompetitive.
Or say the US puts punitive tariffs on German luxury cars into the US - US cars which are shite, but have to be a certain standard purely because they can be compared to German cars,
will become even more shite.
The thing is developed economies end up specialising in certain areas because they have cultural inclinations and aptitudes in those areas. Trying to create jobs in low value-added industries which are being mechanised anyway, simply because those are the people who voted for you, is doomed to failure.

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 10:00
You only have to spend 10 minutes listening to LBC to know the UK is going to hell in a hand cart.

Personally I blame tabloid newspapers after years of shoving their tripe down people's throats.

:D

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 10:01
There is some evidence that protectionism works in the initial stages of a country's development, when keeping out foreign competition may help indigenous industry to take root.
After that period in a country's development though, the evidence is overwhelming that it doesn't work, making everyone poorer.
Tariffs are a tax and eventually the consumer pays.
Look at the US - put tariffs on steel and aluminium - initially there might be some local investment in those industries, but the lack of competition means in the long run costs will go up and quality will go down (competition keeps you on your toes), companies who use these raw products will have to raise their prices, US products will become uncompetitive.
Or say the US puts punitive tariffs on German luxury cars into the US - US cars which are tulipe, but have to be a certain standard purely because they can be compared to German cars,
will become even more tulipe.
The thing is developed economies end up specialising in certain areas because they have cultural inclinations and aptitudes in those areas. Trying to create jobs in low value-added industries which are being mechanised anyway, simply because those are the people who voted for you, is doomed to failure.

Believe me you're wasting your breath, the answer is to ring-fence the UK and try and prevent contagion to other countries,

:D

sasguru
1st June 2018, 10:02
You're using an extreme example to claim that protectionism doesn't work. Here's a less extreme example... Take a look at the motorcycle industry in India. The Indian government permitted collaboration so long as the major shareholder was an indian entity and banned chinese manufacturers outright. The end result was that you now have top japanese companies like Honda, Yamaha etc and top european companies like BMW, KTM and so on working with indian manufacturers like Bajaj and TVS churning out thousands of quality bikes for the local market and motorbikes for export. Protectionism does work if it is done right.

Indian bikes are not quality bikes.
Compare the build quality of an Indian Enfield, say, with a Honda.:D
Like I say, protectionism works in the early stages.
Now if India wants quality products it's going to have to learn to comepete with Honda and the like.

Zigenare
1st June 2018, 10:11
Indian bikes are not quality bikes.
Compare the build quality of an Indian Enfield, say, with a Honda.:D
Like I say, protectionism works in the early stages.
Now if India wants quality products it's going to have to learn to comepete with Honda and the like.

The bikes are built for the local market to a price.

Bear in mind that India has its own problems! Namely a looming water shortage when the populous eventually learns to use a toilet and not crap in the street!

ContractorOnAMotorbike
1st June 2018, 10:13
Indian bikes are not quality bikes.

Bit of a sweeping statement but never mind.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 10:15
The bikes are built for the local market to a price.



Quite. That's the limit of where protectionism can take you.
The next step though would be to open up the indigenous market to foreign competition.
Without that standards are unlikely to rise.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 10:16
Bit of a sweeping statement but never mind.

Which Indian bike is at the cutting edge of technological sophistication, safety, build quality and desirability?
AFAIK the Royal Enfield is popular in the Uk among some enthusiasts purely because of nostalgia - it's essentiallly a copy of a 50s bike.

darmstadt
1st June 2018, 10:24
India's automobile exports have grown consistently with the United Kingdom being India's largest export market. Car imports from India to the UK spiked last year with an 8.3 percent hike in a registration of Indian-built vehicles by buyers in Britain and the popular Indian-made models are Ford Ecosport, Ford KA+, Nissan Micra and Suzuki Baleno.

BTW, Triumph, BMW, Honda, Yamaha all make motorcycles in India, also for export...

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 10:25
The fact is the UK has to abide by the tariffs they agreed to at the WTO, so very little wriggle room in terms of what they can protect without completely isolating themselves at the WTO. Very very unlikely that the UK will be able to negotiate any changes at the WTO. There are anomalies like India's bike tariff but that is what it is, it was negotiated years ago.

The only direction the UK can go is to reduce tariffs not increase them.

woohoo
1st June 2018, 10:31
Why introduce tariffs at all!

sasguru
1st June 2018, 10:35
Why introduce tariffs at all!

Doh!

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 10:48
Why introduce tariffs at all!

bye bye Nissan, Toyota and Honda.

woohoo
1st June 2018, 10:55
bye bye Nissan, Toyota and Honda.

If they survive by forcing customers to pay more for the competition then perhaps they should not survive. If we can't compete on cheapness then we need to compete on quality and high tec.

NigelJK
1st June 2018, 10:57
As I thought, no actual blocks then, just tariffs. And for the record I don't bother with any of the mainstream news outlets they all have their own agenda.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 10:59
If they survive by forcing customers to pay more for the competition then perhaps they should not survive. If we can't compete on cheapness then we need to compete on quality and high tec.

Double Doh!

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 11:10
As I thought, no actual blocks then, just tariffs. And for the record I don't bother with any of the mainstream news outlets they all have their own agenda.

absolutely right "just tariffs" like the ones they introduced in the 1930's

only enough to cost thousands of jobs

ContractorOnAMotorbike
1st June 2018, 11:11
Which Indian bike is at the cutting edge of technological sophistication, safety, build quality and desirability?
AFAIK the Royal Enfield is popular in the Uk among some enthusiasts purely because of nostalgia - it's essentiallly a copy of a 50s bike.

Once again you're going from North Korea at one end to cutting edge desirability like Bugatti to prove your point which is quite sad. Take a look at the new BMW 310 being developed in India with TVS as a case in point. It will sell well locally and will be exported to Europe also.

Since you are obsessed with Royal Enfield for some reason note the huge rise in sales they have had over the past 10 years domestically and internationally and the new 650 twin that is on the horizon and a new r&d division here in UK. So your point about Royal Enfield turning out tired old bikes as a result of protectionism isn't valid.

Zigenare
1st June 2018, 11:14
Once again you're going from North Korea at one end to cutting edge desirability like Bugatti to prove your point which is quite sad. Take a look at the new BMW 310 being developed in India with TVS as a case in point. It will sell well locally and will be exported to Europe also.

Since you are obsessed with Royal Enfield for some reason note the huge rise in sales they have had over the past 10 years domestically and internationally and the new 650 twin that is on the horizon and a new r&d division here in UK. So your point about Royal Enfield turning out tired old bikes as a result of protectionism isn't valid.

To be fair though...

I'm not an expert...

Please cut the dipshit some slack.

BlasterBates
1st June 2018, 11:21
Once again you're going from North Korea at one end to cutting edge desirability like Bugatti to prove your point which is quite sad. Take a look at the new BMW 310 being developed in India with TVS as a case in point. It will sell well locally and will be exported to Europe also.

Since you are obsessed with Royal Enfield for some reason note the huge rise in sales they have had over the past 10 years domestically and internationally and the new 650 twin that is on the horizon and a new r&d division here in UK. So your point about Royal Enfield turning out tired old bikes as a result of protectionism isn't valid.

Yes India might export a few motorbikes to the EU, but there are strict quotas. The UK exports hundreds of thousands of cars to the EU.

TwoWolves
1st June 2018, 12:05
You only have to spend 10 minutes listening to LBC to know the UK is going to hell in a hand cart.

Personally I blame tabloid newspapers after years of shoving their tripe down people's throats.

:D

The Tabloids are merely entertainment, the culprit is state education.

TwoWolves
1st June 2018, 12:07
So you are saying Canada and Mexico are "protectionist"...

At last, the "Cathy Newman" manoeuvre. No didn't say that at all.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 12:14
Once again you're going from North Korea at one end to cutting edge desirability like Bugatti to prove your point which is quite sad. Take a look at the new BMW 310 being developed in India with TVS as a case in point. It will sell well locally and will be exported to Europe also.

Since you are obsessed with Royal Enfield for some reason note the huge rise in sales they have had over the past 10 years domestically and internationally and the new 650 twin that is on the horizon and a new r&d division here in UK. So your point about Royal Enfield turning out tired old bikes as a result of protectionism isn't valid.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/bmw/2017-bmw-g310gs-review/2017-bmw-g310gs-first-review
"BMW has contracted the company to build this bike in its own dedicated and sealed production area, with Bavarian staff keeping a very close eye on the quality control. There are automated systems direct from Germany being used to build and check every part. "
So in other words the local company is merely being used to bypass India's protectionist laws.
How does this prove that protectionism is a good idea in general?
I'm pretty sure protectionism has been good to get India's nascent industry started but at some point they'll have to compete on equal terms with international competitors.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 12:24
To be fair though...
[Originally Posted by sasguru
I'm not an expert...]

.

Lack of expertise in any subject area is easily fixed with a bit of objective research, congenital cretinism, such as you possess, is, sadly, irremediable.

HTH, BIDI.

sasguru
1st June 2018, 12:51
The Tabloids are merely entertainment, the culprit is state education.

So in which part of your superior education were you taught that protectionism might be a good idea for an advanced economy like the US?
I don't think economists always know what they're talking about but there are areas of economics that have empirical evidence attached.
For example, price controls seem to be an obvious way to protect poor people but they ususally lead to shortages.
And likewise the idea of non-protectionist free trade has been a leitmotif of the UK economy and other EUropean economies since at least the 18th century, simply because it led to greater prosperity.

scooterscot
1st June 2018, 14:09
£320m a week is starting to seem like a bargain.

TwoWolves
1st June 2018, 21:19
So in which part of your superior education were you taught that protectionism might be a good idea for an advanced economy like the US?
I don't think economists always know what they're talking about but there are areas of economics that have empirical evidence attached.
For example, price controls seem to be an obvious way to protect poor people but they ususally lead to shortages.
And likewise the idea of non-protectionist free trade has been a leitmotif of the UK economy and other EUropean economies since at least the 18th century, simply because it led to greater prosperity.

Never said it was a good idea, you smoke too much weed. I said it was common and a sensible retaliation to another trading party doing it. China has been taking the piss for years but you are blind to this for some reason.

Globalization has been an abject failure but the propaganda machine rolls on doesn't it? It's been responsible for the hot flows that fed the dot-com bubble and then real estate.

sasguru
2nd June 2018, 11:52
Never said it was a good idea, you smoke too much weed. I said it was common and a sensible retaliation to another trading party doing it. China has been taking the piss for years but you are blind to this for some reason.

Globalization has been an abject failure but the propaganda machine rolls on doesn't it? It's been responsible for the hot flows that fed the dot-com bubble and then real estate.

I don't smoke weed. In what way has China been taking the piss?
Perhaps people who are smarter than you can see that having a billion people who have some consumer power is good for the West both economically and for political stability and have allowed the protectionism that many developing countries need at first?
You need to have some perspective and remove your head from up your arse where it seems to be lodged.
Globalisation has lifted millions of people from poverty around the world. That's a good thing for the world as a whole.
It's the only way to prevent migration flows from becoming compeletely intolerable.
And it seems to be working fine for many people in the West.
Maybe you should have worked harder at school - it's obvious you're pretty poorly educated - your logical ability and powers of analysis are piss poor.

scooterscot
2nd June 2018, 14:09
Would now be a good time to buy up US steel and just store it somewhere in the US?