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Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 08:06
We have recently taken on a few new clients from other Brolly companies and discovered that they have been paying too much tax and national insurance.

If you are with a Brolly and would like your most recent payslip checked, free of charge, send it to brollycheck@itaccounting.co.uk

ITAccounting Online - Truly Interactive Internet Accounting (http://www.itaccounting.co.uk/about/ourservices_umbrella.html)

freshblue
7th February 2003, 10:50
What do you mean? gross pay figures wrong on P45?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 10:59
Amount of gross salary being paid is incorrect in some of the cases we have looked at. The contractors salary is too high and they are paying too much tax and NI. If you think this might affect you, send us your most recent payslip or statement from your Brolly and we will check it.

ITAccounting Online - Truly Interactive Internet Accounting (http://www.itaccounting.co.uk)

Simon SJDaccountancy
7th February 2003, 11:16
So you mean if you give them a smaller salary they pay less tax and NI? Never........

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 11:20
But you don't expect them to pay Employers' NIC out of post tax salary do you?

freshblue
7th February 2003, 12:20
Debbie,
I'm not interested in composite schemes, thanks.
Dave

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 12:30
Freshblue, sorry don't understand. We don't offer composite schemes ????

freshblue
7th February 2003, 12:41
Sorry, it was your "the contarctors salary is too high" point. The salary surely relates to the amount of money coming in as fee's??

rooney
7th February 2003, 12:42
Debbie

Can you give us any more details on the problem. As an umbrella user myself I'm a little concerned. What can you company do that reduces the gross? Is this probelm specific to a particular umbrella company? Or was your posting just a ploy to drum up business?

Y

Simon SJDaccountancy
7th February 2003, 12:43
Why would you deduct employers NI from post tax salary?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 13:09
Rooney - it's specific to one umbrella company but obviously I cannot name them here. If you call me or email me we can discuss.

Simon, we wouldn't deduct employers NI from post tax salary but we have become aware that another umbrella company is doing so.

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 13:10
Freshblue

The salary does relate to the contract income coming in but if the calculations are not done correctly then the Inland Revenue benefits and the contractor suffers!!

ajh
7th February 2003, 13:18
Hi Debbie,

Is it Parasol ?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 13:32
ajh

Have responded to your email.

rooney
7th February 2003, 13:47
Debbie

If you have found a company that is incorrectly deducting NI then I think it should be public knowledge. Why the secrecy? If you are confident that you are correct and they are wrong (i.e. what you are telling us is factually correct and not libel/slander) there will be no comeback on you.
At the least you should give us details of the problem (i.e. an example) so we can all understand and check our payslips.

I am a little confused as well (although my accounting/payroll knowledge is extremely limited) but if employers NI is being deducting from post tax salary then surely the NI would be less than it should be and not more as you stated.

Y

freshblue
7th February 2003, 14:02
Something smells dodgy here, hope this is not a way to drum up business Debbie!

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 14:06
Example (ignoring brolly admin fees):

Calculated incorrectly
Contact income £1000.
Schedule E expenses £200
Gross Salary £800 (£1000 - £200)
Employers NIC on £800 = £83.90
Employees NIC on £800 = £49.60
Tax on £800 = £176.46
Amount payable to IR = 83.90 + 49.60 + 176.46 = £309.96.
Net salary to contractor £800 - 49.60 - 176.46, should be £573.94 plus £200 expenses due to contractor, total of £773.94
But From contract income of £1000, £309.96 goes to IR, leaving £690.04 for contractor, he is out of pocket by £83.90 (Employers NIC amount).

Calculated correctly :
Contract Income £1000 less expenses £200, £800 available.
Employers NIC £75.04
Contractors Gross Salary £724.96 (Salary + Employers NIC = £800, the amount available.
Employees NIC £49.60
Tax on £724.96 £146.46
Amount payable to IR = 75.04 + 49.60 + 146.46 = £271.10
Net salary to contractor £724.96 - 49.6 -146.46 = £528.90 plus £200 expenses due to contractor, total of £728.90
From contract income of £1000, £271.10 goes to IR leaving £728.90. for contractor.

Okay in this example it is only £38.86 difference to the amount that ends up in the contractor's pocket, but wouldn't you rather it was in your pocket than in the Inland Revenues?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 14:09
Freshblue

If your with an umbrella company and they are making the calculations correctly you have nothing to worry about.

Suggest you ask VurtGameCat.

VurtGameCat
7th February 2003, 14:25
Hey,

My Brolly currently does this,

I don't want to name any names because they pay me my wage and i don't want to ruffle any feathers.

I will send a mail to my brolly now to see how they explain this.

GC.

rooney
7th February 2003, 14:32
Why should we ask VurtGameCat when you know who it is!!!!

How about we play a game and say who it is not....

FileTravel
Contractors Manager
Orange Genie
Prosperity 4
Parasol IT
ContractorUmbrella
Contranet
Drole
Giant
JSA
etc...

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 14:42
Well it's definitely not Clear Sky Contracting

rooney
7th February 2003, 14:57
oops finger trouble.....sorry.

skippy75
7th February 2003, 15:17
Hi Debbie, just noticed that the Employees NI is the same is both cases. Is this because of the upper limit ie £49.60 being the most u can pay.
cos surely the employees NI ould be calcuated against the salary so seeing at the salary is different in both cases then the employees NI would be different. I presume this has something to do with the upper limit......

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 15:24
Hi Skippy

You're right - £49.60 is the upper weekly limit for Employees NIC for the current tax year.

From 6th April there will be an additional 1% Employees NIC on amounts above the upper limit threshold.

freshblue
7th February 2003, 15:25
Well I've checked my payslips and my secret brolly :D are doing it correctly, so I'm ok. You had me worried for a bit there, perhaps it would have been better to have put the example up sooner?

skippy75
7th February 2003, 15:30
Blimey, an extra 1% above the threshold??
What is the threshhold??

Now theres a good reason to be outside IR35 if ever I saw one......

Debbie ITAccounting Online
7th February 2003, 15:33
Threshold is currently £585 per week.

More info here (http://www.itaccounting.co.uk/content/taxcentre/taxcard/ni.html)

SniperIII
8th February 2003, 02:13
Debbie tried to contact you by phone this afternoon, after reading your post.

quick question for you, when you say...

"The salary does relate to the contract income coming in but if the calculations are not done correctly then the Inland Revenue benefits and the contractor suffers!!"

surely that's not right. is’nt any over payment given back to the contractor at year-end

Debbie ITAccounting Online
8th February 2003, 10:07
Hi Sniper

Your message received late yesterday evening.

The way that the (incorrect) calculation has been done means the the additional Employers NIC (and tax and Employees NIC) has already been paid over to the IR and accounted for. There would not be a refund at year end.

Give me a call if you want to discuss further.

itallhelps
8th February 2003, 22:49
Debbie and Rooney, is there a difference between the two of you?

what's your problem, need new business? As our mate Kipling says "If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue"

Debbie ITAccounting Online
9th February 2003, 08:15
Seeing as we've given you an example so that you can check your own payslips, it's hardly going to drum up any business for us now is it?

If brolly contractors want to go on paying too much tax and NI to the IR then that's their privilege.

If they don't all they need to do is check their latest payslip against the example given earlier in this thread.

freshblue
9th February 2003, 12:00
Hmmmm, it did look like an attempt to win business/scaremongering imo, but thanks anyway. You know you can't win on forum's and ng's.

itallhelps
9th February 2003, 12:02
ok, debbie. but who's Rooney?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
9th February 2003, 12:13
Haven't a clue!

itallhelps
9th February 2003, 19:27
debbie, excuse me for pushing you, but just to put this thing to bed are you saying you (or a mate) are definitely not posting as Rooney?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
9th February 2003, 19:41
100% - neither me nor a mate are posting as Rooney. Don't know how I convince you of that? Maybe we should start a new thread - Will Rooney stand up and be counted.

Maybe CUK can check the IP address?

From what I recall Rooney was slagging me off for trying to drum up business earlier, so why do you think I know who it is?

itallhelps
9th February 2003, 22:13
debbie, why do you suppose Rooney's posted her first ever message on this particular thread? also, it seems starnge that her questions are perfectly placed for u to come back with what seems to be predetermined answers.

to lay my cards on the table, i question if you two r the same person based on
1. rooney's 1st ever posting
2. perfect posed questions for u to repond to
3. her use of language, syntax, choice of words, grammar, sentence structure, use of upper/lower case font and style very similar to yours (btw no contractor i know would speak like that)
4. her specific questioning format eg "what can your company(it accounting) do that reduces gross?"
5. ask for an example, then 10 minutes later a perfect example comes back (surely in a busy office it would have taken a little longer than that to work through it
6. she says "...to drum up business". seems an obvious means of trying to cover your tracks. everything she said was so fawning as to be untrue! so why would she then question you? unless it was something for you to rely on if you were ever questioned?
7. Rooney says her accounting knowledge is very limited, then goes on to ask "...employers NI is being deducted from post tax salary then surely NI would be less..." What sort of question/language is that from someone who knows very little about the subject? it doesn't ring true.

i can go on with more but you get the point.

my problem is integrity. this message board (and site) is one of the few remaing bastions of reliability in our industry and i'd hate it to be taken over by people with their own agendas who make up names and postings to service some hidden agenda.

a lot of this is circumstantial i agree, but added altogether and i can only presume you're on some crusade (maybe a grudge maybe new business) but going about it in an underhand way.

one coincidence is unfortunate, a pile of them makes me nervy.

what do you guys think? am i wrong here - tell me and i'll button it. anyway i'm off to Lake Como on friday for a well earned break, then back to the grindstone a week later.

Debbie ITAccounting Online
10th February 2003, 11:29
As I don't know who Rooney is I can't prove my innocence. However I have been posting on this board for sometime. With respect to "perfectly posed questions" - maybe Rooney is an accountant, unknown to me.

As for the example, of course I had an example to hand, I was already checking payslips for contractors who asked me to do so and have a template set up for the purpose.

Quick response, we always try to respond quickly to all queries raised by clients and non clients alike.

James, can you shed any light on who Rooney is and confirm that he / she is not me!!!!

Debbie ITAccounting Online
10th February 2003, 11:32
(btw no contractor i know would speak like that)

FYI - I was a contractor for seven years.

Pinto
10th February 2003, 11:57
What a bunch of paranoid fools!! Debbie is only trying to help!!!

freshblue
10th February 2003, 12:01
I think the problem with posting topics as you did is that it is construed as an attempt to obtain new business rather than an attempt to help. It's a fine line that the "supplier" treads between sales and free advice. I think ItAllHelps is a little paranoid but the independence point is a valid one. Perhaps a "supplier/services" forum would prevent this from happening again whereby users could post technical questions in that way. I guess the point that grated was (as it seemed) "You umbrella company is wrong and we can fix it come here ASAP"
Harsh? Possibly.
Dave

Debbie ITAccounting Online
10th February 2003, 12:03
Harsh - yes. Because what we offered was a free check to see if you had the problem. If you didn't you would stay where you are, if you did you had free choic to look around.

Never mind water under the bridge now.

freshblue
10th February 2003, 12:07
Debbie,
Most people are cynical and assume another motive, we have all been subject to spam and the like. Not sure you can win, sadly.

Debbie ITAccounting Online
10th February 2003, 12:12
never mind - all this posting back and forth means I'm a one star general now!!!

ajh
10th February 2003, 12:18
Well, I sent my most recent payslip to brollycheck@itaccountants.co.uk and they just kindly informed me that I was not paying too much tax and NI.

To be honest, I just think that that IT Accountants are just offering a friendly service.

They seem like a good bunch to me.

VurtGameCat
10th February 2003, 14:19
What a bunch of sods you all are!!

In an earlier thread on the general board, i posted the question about this issue. I asked if n e 1 out there could explain why under a brolly I had to pay Employers NI. Debbie kindly took on the question and explained this too me.

I later sent her a copy of my payslip. She took a look at it and noticed a mistake in the way it was processed.

On telling me this she decided it would be beneficial to tell others on the board about this.

I requested that Debbie did not mention the name of the company that had made the mistake. Mistakes happen. The company has now rectified the error and will be reimbursing anyone who has been over charged.

Even when she was getting slated about the name she did not disclose the information. For that I am grateful.

At no point during this correspondence did Debbie try to push IT accounting service on me.

It is a shame that people will no longer trust someone who is trying to help. I guess they say there is no such thing as a free lunch?

I would like to thank Debbie for her help.

It’s a breath of fresh air. ;)

GC.

rooney
11th February 2003, 14:37
Sorry GC but if you look at it from another viewpoint Debbie's original posting was:

"We have recently taken on a few new clients from other Brolly companies and discovered that they have been paying too much tax and national insurance.
If you are with a Brolly and would like your most recent payslip checked, free of charge, send it to brollycheck@itaccounting.co.uk"

This is obviously a trawl for new business for IT accounting as opposed to your view of "At no point during this correspondence did Debbie try to push IT accounting service on me." She may not have with you but has then used this to push on us.

The implication from her postings is that ALL umbrellas (because she did not name them) are incompetent and that IT accounting are not. The refusal to name them or state who it is not, is a mystery. For e.g. the posting of "Is it Parasol?" was met with no response so that automatically infers that it is Parasol regardless of whether it was or not.

So as I said before what is the big secret here. Who was it?

and finally I'll leave you with 2 points:

1. Anyone who posts on here as a company is trying to further their company's service as it is a very effective marketing tool. Anybody who thinks they are "someone who is trying to help" is in need of a reality check. If by some miracle "trying to help" is where they are coming from then why don't they just post as an individual?

2. Debbie and IT accounting now have detailed payslip information of all their competitors kindly sent in by worried contractors who think their umbrella company is crap. With one posting they have managed to gain vital information on how their competitors process payroll, make deductions and send out payslips.

In the words of the great Jim Royle..."someone who is trying to help".....my arse".

Y

BTW Does this prove I'm not Debbie

trajectory
11th February 2003, 14:48
No.

But what's wrong with accountants posting on here?

So what, if they're trying to drum up a bit of business, good for them. As long as they're not blatantly advertising.

Some of them have even answered a few useful questions for myself. Nobody is forcing you to sign up, send your payslip, etc.

Just chill out.

Carry on Debbie.

traj.

Debbie ITAccounting Online
11th February 2003, 14:56
Carry on Debbie

will do!!!

xoggoth
11th February 2003, 14:58
Totally agree with trajectory. Expect most of the accountants on here are hoping to get a bit of business, but if they are prepared to offer a some free advice in exchange cannot see a problem with it. (Even if certain people we shall not mention won't help me fiddle my taxes. I want to fiddle, cheat, avoid, evade, defraud, FIDDLE and shall sulk until I do)

Debbie ITAccounting Online
11th February 2003, 14:59
oh Xoggoth, not a temper tantrum please. Sulks just leave me cold

rooney
11th February 2003, 16:09
"As long as they're not blatantly advertising. "

Isn't that exactly what Debbie was doing!!! Pointing out a perceived problem with a competitor, not naming them and offering a solution. Can't get more blatant than that.

I've no problem with anyone advertising/commenting on any forum as long as it is fair.

But seeing as no one has actually divulged who the problem was with I'm afraid I'm going to file this one in the "How can we trash our competitors and get info on how they operate" folder.

Debbie - is that good enough to prove I'm not you?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
11th February 2003, 16:11
Well I knew your weren't me anyway.

Whether it's good enough to convince the others - who knows? They'll probably think you're deliberately having a go at me to convince them that you are not me!!!

hap
11th February 2003, 18:12
Man I thought I was paranoid :rolleyes

Don't let them get to you Debbie...

Debbie ITAccounting Online
11th February 2003, 18:17
Don't let them get to you Debbie...

You can't get a good woman down!!

itallhelps
12th February 2003, 01:17
you don't fool me, nor i suspect most.

advertising for business, no shame

doing it by talking to yourself, underhand...BECAUSE you're trying to deceive us and taking us as fools.

learn a lesson and move on

Simon SJDaccountancy
12th February 2003, 09:13
Yes Debbie,

You stop advertising now.

Whatever next.....

:-)

SupremeSpod
12th February 2003, 19:45
You can't get a good woman down!!

Oh, yeah?

Spod - In "wanna bet?" mode?

Debbie ITAccounting Online
12th February 2003, 19:59
After the day I've had I may reverse that statement.

Still searching for the server rack, but the DataRacks website you gave us, Spod, looks hopeful. We will know tomorrow but they think they can deliver on Friday!!!

We will get into the additional office space eventually - we will we will we will

Debbie in Panic Mode

xoggoth
12th February 2003, 21:11
Whenever I have lost my server rack I always remember mother's advice, try to think were you last had it. Try the garage, second shelf on left.

Debbie ITAccounting Online
12th February 2003, 23:27
my mother always said that it was "in granny's room behind the clock".

VurtGameCat
13th February 2003, 11:44
:rollin

Erinon
28th January 2004, 11:29
I've transferred IT accounting about 3 years ago after having a real bad experience with one of the"big" accountancy firms, and from the very first have always had excellent service and advice form Debbie, often about areas out side of the usual accounting areas. This advice has always been offered willingly and free.

If by raising an area of concern to all of us, Debbie and IT accounting (and any other accounting firm for that matter) get some more business then more power to their able.

I would rather they mentioned it and gave us the opportunity to redress the situation than continue to be ripped off.

P.S. - Debbie keep up the good work. - and can I have a discount on next years fees please :-)

P.P.S - NO I'm not Debbie.

freshblue
28th January 2004, 12:23
Read the thread in General? They have big problems!:rolleyes

Debbie Reinvented
28th January 2004, 14:22
Erinon

Unfortunately I am no longer responsible for client accounting or tax affairs. I moved to IT development last year and am now under notice of redundancy.

That's the thread on the General forum.

Erinon
28th January 2004, 17:37
Yeh, read the other thread after I posted this comment.

ho hum.. what ever - my comments about Debbie still stand tho' .

Debbie Reinvented
28th January 2004, 23:19
thank you

ldtunltd
4th February 2004, 10:19
Your pay-slips count for nothing the only document that matters is the p60, make sure what appears there matches with your bank account and playslip. i worked for one company that issued paylips and p60's that bored no truth to what was paid into my accounts.