Project Lie

[darmstadt]

Dominic Cummings: how the Brexit referendum was won | Coffee House

Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.

[Zigenare]

Dominic Cummings: how the Brexit referendum was won | Coffee House

An interesting opinion. But, that's all it is.

[Mordac]

Dominic Cummings: how the Brexit referendum was won | Coffee House

How many voted "Remain" because of the scaremongering by Cameron & Osbourne? Which turned out to be mostly untrue, or exaggerated. Can we call them "liars"? Probably not, without being able to prove they knowingly misled the electorate.
The same goes for the Leave campaign, and the £350m a week for the NHS. The £350m is technically available to spend on the NHS, should the government choose to do so, but the Leave campaign isn't the government, and so doesn't get to choose how that money is distributed.
You cannot claim that just one side lied, inferring the other was completely honourable. Politics is probably the dirtiest business of all, and for the winners, the most profitable.

[Old Greg]

How many voted "Remain" because of the scaremongering by Cameron & Osbourne? Which turned out to be mostly untrue, or exaggerated. Can we call them "liars"? Probably not, without being able to prove they knowingly misled the electorate.
The same goes for the Leave campaign, and the £350m a week for the NHS. The £350m is technically available to spend on the NHS, should the government choose to do so, but the Leave campaign isn't the government, and so doesn't get to choose how that money is distributed.
You cannot claim that just one side lied, inferring the other was completely honourable. Politics is probably the dirtiest business of all, and for the winners, the most profitable.

False equivalence. The UK does not send 350 million per week to the EU. That is an outright lie. That money is not technically available. Why are you repeating the lie?

[darmstadt]

An interesting book to read, some parallels with the Leave campaign, hopefully someone will write a post-Brexit one:

[Mordac]

False equivalence. The UK does not send 350 million per week to the EU. That is an outright lie. That money is not technically available. Why are you repeating the lie?

It is a weekly approximation of our total gross contribution. The fact that landowners and farmers etc. get a shedload back in subsidies is not relevant. The CAP is a joke. We can't change it within the EU, but we won't have to swallow it when we leave. So I'm counting the whole gross contribution, and the government of the day can allocate that as they see fit.

[Lance]

How many voted "Remain" because of the scaremongering by Cameron & Osbourne? Which turned out to be mostly untrue, or exaggerated.

We don't know how exaggerated until we actually leave, if we do leave at all.

You must be a secret remainer now surely (along with OPM and the rest)? That way when we remain, you can be right (well unproven to be wrong) forever.

[original PM]

We don't know how exaggerated until we actually leave, if we do leave at all.

You must be a secret remainer now surely (along with OPM and the rest)? That way when we remain, you can be right (well unproven to be wrong) forever.

You can lance my boils if you think I am a secret remainer.

[meridian]

It is a weekly approximation of our total gross contribution. The fact that landowners and farmers etc. get a shedload back in subsidies is not relevant. The CAP is a joke. We can't change it within the EU, but we won't have to swallow it when we leave. So I'm counting the whole gross contribution, and the government of the day can allocate that as they see fit.

FFS, two years on and still going on about this nonsense.

The gross contribution alluded to of £350m per week includes the rebate plus CAP and other payments such as ERDF. Gross less rebate but plus CAP etc (i.e. notionally what we would have to spend) is around £250m per week.

So the amount that the government of the day can allocate as they see fit is £250m, not £350m.

[Old Greg]

It is a weekly approximation of our total gross contribution. The fact that landowners and farmers etc. get a shedload back in subsidies is not relevant. The CAP is a joke. We can't change it within the EU, but we won't have to swallow it when we leave. So I'm counting the whole gross contribution, and the government of the day can allocate that as they see fit.

There is a rebate. And that rebate is never 'sent' to the EU. So how is the rebate available to spend?