The other 24 month rule

[BigRed]

A Scottish Government department are considering offering me an extension but only for 3 months because they are worried about me acquiring rights of employment such as redundancy pay.

I'm working through an Umbrella and inside IR35. Can anyone point me at anything which clearly states that I have no chance or are they actually correct.

[northernladuk]

You are already an employee of your umbrella. How on can you be classed as employee twice?

In your case I believe they are getting confused with their FTC rules so you need point out the difference between a B2B contract and an FTC.

I've spoken to at least two clients to attempt to get to the bottom of their 2 year rules. In all cases, after disproving every reason they came up with they just shrugged their shoulders and said it is what it is and weren't interested in re-addressing. They were happy to keep it as just a governance point where they shouldn't have a contractor in a post that long. Pretty frustrating really.

There are plenty of articles out there like this.

Your legal rights when you go contracting

The only problem is there will be someone that will claim they are an employee because it suits them. Wasn't there a guy that did a long stint somewhere and managed to do that? I thought it was at Oracle and 8 years or so springs to mind but can't find it. IR35 is so wooly you can get whatever outcome you want if you argue it hard enough.

[northernladuk]

Another useful article covering your exact question here.

Contractor Doctor: Client won’t renew after 2 years fearing employment rights

[simes]

A Scottish Government department are considering offering me an extension but only for 3 months because they are worried about me acquiring rights of employment such as redundancy pay.

I'm working through an Umbrella and inside IR35. Can anyone point me at anything which clearly states that I have no chance or are they actually correct.

I am not sure the 24 month rule in any form has an impact on redundancy rights. If you're inside IR35, you are already deemed to be an employee. When do redundancy rights kick in for ordinary (as opposed to deemed) employees?

If the answer to that is actually two years, then, this will not be about employment rights Kicking In, and more about when redundancy becomes payable.

That said, it has only been recently (I think) that anyone has won any employment rights through a legal / court process and that was Sarah Winchester vs HMRC over holiday pay. Slippery slopes 'n' all that, I wonder when someone will win a Redundancy battle.

In terms of The Chance you were asking about, was this about the extension? If so, can this Redundancy issue not be addressed and attached to your contract if you favour an extension over and above redundancy payouts?

[Batcher]

You are already an employee of your umbrella. How on can you be classed as employee twice?

In your case I believe they are getting confused with their FTC rules so you need point out the difference between a B2B contract and an FTC.

I've spoken to at least two clients to attempt to get to the bottom of their 2 year rules. In all cases, after disproving every reason they came up with they just shrugged their shoulders and said it is what it is and weren't interested in re-addressing. They were happy to keep it as just a governance point where they shouldn't have a contractor in a post that long. Pretty frustrating really.

There are plenty of articles out there like this.

Your legal rights when you go contracting

The only problem is there will be someone that will claim they are an employee because it suits them. Wasn't there a guy that did a long stint somewhere and managed to do that? I thought it was at Oracle and 8 years or so springs to mind but can't find it. IR35 is so wooly you can get whatever outcome you want if you argue it hard enough.

A previous client had a 2 year rule for that reason. They said if a contractor was there longer then the manager wasn't doing their job and should have had a permy in by that time.

They actually wanted to keep it at 1 year max but they struggled to get permies.

I managed over 3 years before I was moved on.

[BigRed]

In terms of The Chance you were asking about, was this about the extension? If so, can this Redundancy issue not be addressed and attached to your contract if you favour an extension over and above redundancy payouts?

I should have said "no chance of being able to claim employee rights"

The link from NLUK was exactly what I was looking for to persuade them that they can give me a six month extension.