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sunnysan
1st February 2007, 09:28
Anybody here done Sun Certifications?

Been working in Java for 18 months now and looking to stay doing that and was wondering if having the certifications carries any weight?

Or is it like having an MCSE?

milanbenes
1st February 2007, 09:44
do any companies run sun hardware these days, sun seem to be really low profile these days, shame really, all projects seem to be on hp or ibm hardware, sun's missed opportunities, they seem to have become a niche supplier to eccentric IT managers running small operations, just my few pence worth

Milan.

sunnysan
1st February 2007, 10:07
Thanks Milan

I am more interested in obtaining the qualifications for Java Application Development.

In London there appears to be a large, well paid and steady demand for Java skills and was wondering if having these certs would increase career prospects

milanbenes
1st February 2007, 10:10
ahh
forget that java nonsense

you need to get into .NOT and the only certificate you
need is the MSDN certification

hth

Milan.

Francko
1st February 2007, 10:12
Thanks Milan

I am more interested in obtaining the qualifications for Java Application Development.

In London there appears to be a large, well paid and steady demand for Java skills and was wondering if having these certs would increase career prospects

Given the complete disregard for titles in the UK I doubt it will be of any value. However, the java cert is one of the good ones outside, if not for them, do it for you. I did it after 3 years I had been working as a java developers and it made me realise how much I overlooked in the whole 3 years. :(

What matters for career prospects in the eyes of UK employers: the last 6 months of work experience and if you have a high degree of personality disorder.

Cowboy Bob
1st February 2007, 10:14
Or is it like having an MCSE?

Yep. I'm a senior level Java architect/developer and so far in my career I've met exactly 2 people who owned up to being Sun certified. Both were sh!te.

Francko
1st February 2007, 10:20
Yep. I'm a senior level Java architect/developer and so far in my career I've met exactly 2 people who owned up to being Sun certified. Both were sh!te.

I have met about 10 people who were certified and they were all excellent. I have also met a drunken austrian tourist in London, therefore all austrian are drunken tourists.

milanbenes
1st February 2007, 10:23
seems in general the people who get certified are the ones who don't have the solid experience and they hope that certs will cover the inadequacies of their lack of solid experience

Milan.

Francko
1st February 2007, 10:27
seems in general the people who didn't get certified are the ones who don't have the solid experience and they hope that by saying certs are useless to cover the inadequacies of their lack of solid experience

Cowboy Bob
1st February 2007, 10:32
seems in general the people who didn't get certified are the ones who don't have the solid experience and they hope that by saying certs are useless to cover the inadequacies of their lack of solid experience

Spot the certified person desperately trying to justify the cash he placed down to get it :moon:

Francko
1st February 2007, 10:36
Spot the certified person desperately trying to justify the cash he placed down to get it :moon:

I have never paid a penny. Companies pay for it. And there still seems to be people around who aren't that snob when it comes to studies. You seem a little frustrated by the fact that you are not certified. I am well aware that it only means you have theoretical subject knowledge (which is something in itself) but I don't feel the need to bash it all the time. Perhaps you should go for one and take that weight out of your stomach.

Cowboy Bob
1st February 2007, 10:44
My original comment was as much about the number of people who have them as it was about the quality of people who have them.

I have only met 2 people who have the Sun certification out of the hundreds of people I've met in the industry, which effectively makes it useless as a benchmark of development quality regardless of your views on certification as a whole.

ratewhore
1st February 2007, 10:45
do any companies run sun hardware these days, sun seem to be really low profile these days, shame really, all projects seem to be on hp or ibm hardware, sun's missed opportunities, they seem to have become a niche supplier to eccentric IT managers running small operations, just my few pence worth

Milan.


I don't think IT managers running small operations could afford sun hardware. It's out there and in use where stability, scalability and performance are required in spades...

:cool2:

sasguru
1st February 2007, 10:51
Not this old chestnut of certification again. When I was a techie I did all the certs going (Yes I am Java certified + much more) but ONLY on the back of solid experience. Certainly wouldn't hire a certified person over someone with better, demonstrable hard core experience. If on the other hand they have both, I would be inclined to take them. Certification is like the icing on the cake.

sunnysan
1st February 2007, 10:52
I was looking at the some of the questions for Java Programmers and they are actually quite well set as you really do need to know the nitty gritty and the finer points of the language ie Rule of promotion for ternary operators.

Its not going to make you a good developer if you are sh1te but it appears it will improve the code of an already competent developer.

sasguru
1st February 2007, 10:52
Its not going to make you a good developer if you are sh1te but it appears it will improve the code of an already competent developer.

Yes exactly.

Francko
1st February 2007, 10:55
I was looking at the some of the questions for Java Programmers and they are actually quite well set as you really do need to know the nitty gritty and the finer points of the language ie Rule of promotion for ternary operators.

Its not going to make you a good developer if you are sh1te but it appears it will improve the code of an already competent developer.

I agree. Java programmer is a good one. And so is the architect too. Surely it doesn't make you an architect if you don't have a long experience but it sets a good standard approach. Same for Solaris, MQ and WebSphere ones. I instead was very disappointed by the Microsoft ones, they are just useful to force you to buy mock exams (and that's the only way you would pass the MS exams).

sunnysan
1st February 2007, 11:02
I did MCSE way back when and I must say owing to the structure of the certification all you needed to do was learn transcenders and you could pass and know sweet FA about M$ network admin.

Are the Java certs like that too?

bobhope
1st February 2007, 11:06
Damn, I have to agree with both Sasguru and Francko.

It's worth doing just for yourself, you do learn a lot and have many moments where you go "ahah". I would also say without study you're unlikely to pass.


Plus you get the little badge and certificate and the logo that you can put on your CV (which looks flash)

Finally, I have met/interviewed so many developers that don't seem to even understand the fundamentals you wonder how they've managed to survive for so long.

For example, I'd say that only about a quarter of java devs know if method parameters are call by reference or call by value in java - it's one of my favourite interview questions.

milanbenes
1st February 2007, 11:15
bob I guess if you interviewed me I wouldn't get hired

MB certified blagger with solid rapid application development
experience

sunnysan
1st February 2007, 11:21
<google_shield_on>
I think that all are passed in by value. Primitives are passed in by value and Objects are not passed in , only references to them which strictly speaking would be a value.
</google_shield_on>

Do I get the boot or the contract now?

milanbenes
1st February 2007, 11:24
all you need for coding is:

CTRL C

and

CTRL V

and keep _tweaking_ it until it does something like
what is being asked for

Milan.

basshead
1st February 2007, 11:41
I've got the programmer cert that I did last yr because I'd bought the exam voucher and had to use it up, but haven't so far gone for any more. Next time I'm working away I plan on doing web dev and architect certs to pass the time. Some places might be impressed but generally ppl are looking for experience in particular areas rather than a cert to say u know 'something about Java'.

I've never had an interview for a contracting role so never really been asked about it :D

(its not what u know, its who u know ;))

WKnight
1st February 2007, 11:54
I don't know if it still stands up to close scrutiny (if it ever did) but this was my opinion a few years back...


Article about certification (http://java.sys-con.com/read/46665.htm)

Cowboy Bob
1st February 2007, 12:00
<google_shield_on>
I think that all are passed in by value. Primitives are passed in by value and Objects are not passed in , only references to them which strictly speaking would be a value.
</google_shield_on>

Do I get the boot or the contract now?

Yep. Everything in Java is passed by value. With objects you pass the pointer by value.

swamp
1st February 2007, 12:10
Do the SCJP.

It's a useful exam, it will look good on your CV, and it will help you pass technical tests.

I wouldn't bother with SCWCD or SCBCD etc. I've done them and they are just pointless memory exercises.

bobhope
1st February 2007, 12:26
Yep. Everything in Java is passed by value. With objects you pass the pointer by value.

For some reason, most people I interview think that the object itself (not the reference) is passed by value (i.e. they think they are then working on a copy of the object)

Come to think of it, quite a few devs don't even know the terms call by value, etc.

Cowboy Bob
1st February 2007, 12:28
For some reason, most people I interview think that the object itself (not the reference) is passed by value


In which case, ask them to explain how Collections.sort works.