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MarillionFan
7th February 2007, 21:01
The ability of male IT contractors to talk their way into new jobs and projects is making women in the industry feel "they are having a hard time."

New research confirmed yesterday to Contractor UK reveals most female IT contractors believe they’d lose at interview - if they had no qualifications to prove their worth over men.

Almost six out of ten pinned their hopes on a piece of paper, saying a certificate would prove their experience is “exactly the same” as men’s, said the Training Camp, author of the study.

Having a qualification recognised by the UK IT industry would also help them earn a premium of up to 40%, said a third of female optimists who undertook training as freelancers.

But an even greater number (54%) said qualifications were the key to reinforcing their expertise in an age where male IT contractors simply talk their way into new roles.

Rob Chapman, chief executive of the Training Camp, said the findings were evidence women “feel that they are having a hard time”, despite ongoing attempts to attract them to the sector.

He added: “Men aren’t shy in coming forward when it comes to selling their skills.

“And, whilst women may have exactly the same industry experience they feel they often lose out when applying for new jobs or projects as they don’t have the paper to prove it.”

The downbeat attitudes among women in IT work was regretful, he hinted, as the “industry is beset by an ever increasing skills shortage” which new female entrants could ease.

But the nature of freelance contracting means women may be powerless to act, despite being well aware of the benefits skills development could bring.

“Few contractors can afford to spend time off work gaining industry accreditation,” Mr Chapman said.

“So getting that all important piece of paper qualification fast and first time is critical to many who want to improve their lot and move up the career ladder.”

Honing skill sets is a bigger priority for IT contractors in 2007 than it was at any time over the past two years, meaning it’s more urgent than work-life balance, but less so than rates of pay.

(Thats cause women who do techy stuff in IT tend to be crap)

Back In Business
7th February 2007, 21:04
Never trust a survey commissioned by a company that has a vested interest.

DimPrawn
7th February 2007, 21:06
If a woman candidate has great norks, how can we experienced and pushy male IT contractor types compete?

:tantrum:

AtW
7th February 2007, 22:24
Aye

SallyAnne
7th February 2007, 23:03
What a load of balls.

threaded
8th February 2007, 06:43
if they had no qualifications to prove their worth
And therein lays the problem, methinks...

cojak
8th February 2007, 09:08
Bollocks...

I was happily taking Linux to a PM who asked me suspiciously why I was a BA (pah!) when I was 'obviously technical'.

This was only because I could tell my T60's from my T43's (you taught me all I know, guys... :banana: )

Pondlife
8th February 2007, 09:26
Training company says "people need more training". :eek: FFS

Maxamus
8th February 2007, 09:30
all women have to do is flash a bit of cleavage and the gigs theys :music:

andy
8th February 2007, 09:41
If I was a girl I would have 100% success rate in interviews

cojak
8th February 2007, 09:45
“And, whilst women may have exactly the same industry experience they feel they often lose out when applying for new jobs or projects as they don’t have the paper to prove it.”



I think there are others on this board who could say that goes for anyone, not just women...

A bit of false logic there on the part of agents and clients alike.

A bit of paper proves you can pass exams, not do the job.

But if you play the game... :cool1:

bjayakody
1st March 2007, 10:12
My wife's a Java/J2EE contractor just like me.

Occasionly we both have been interviewed by the same place.

She gets questioned twice as hard as I do. Even by the recruiters on the phone.

One recruiter even put me forward ahead of her, even though I didn't have the skill required (Swing), which she had 2 years dev in.

And as I worked with her once (where I met her), yes I can say she's good. Better than me in fact.

TheOmegaMan
1st March 2007, 10:32
When will you muppets realise the market is not driven by technical skills or training or even apptitude. It is driven by personal profit, ego, prejudice and dogma. Whether you think someone is better than someone else is irrelevant. What matters is whether the interviewer thinks that person is better for them.

When a group of people hire someone it typically takes months because noone agrees on who is best. The reason is that they all think their own characteristics make the best candidate. Eventually they all get bored and hire the next person in the queue of candidates.

This is how it works in a over-supplied market like IT.

lukemg
1st March 2007, 10:50
Brilliant assessment Omega ! That is exactly how it works, try doing some interviewing yourself - very difficult not to project your own views onto the candidates.
For virtually every job there are numerous people who can do it, if they like you/you seem to be like them - you have a shot. Same as with a woman - work out what sort of person they want and turn into them - quickly !
Quick example - 2 separate regional offices at one place.
Asian IT manager at one - entire team asian.
White middle class IT manager at the other - yeah, whole team likewise.
Not implying any racism, simply that people hire people like them, even if they try not to !

TheOmegaMan
1st March 2007, 17:23
It also works the other way: some managers insist on female staff to keep the testosterone levels down. Because there are far fewer female IT candidates this means it is sometimes fairly easy for a woman to get an IT role.

It also explains why most of the female IT contractors on here get positions. It is not their looks or their skills: they are like a baby's dummy, a sort of pacifier amongst the lions.

cojak
1st March 2007, 19:47
Right,

I'll remember to tell that to the next weasel that irritates me (I've been described as 'truly scarey' by senior management when challenged on a point of ITIL - ususally after I've quoted a page number reference off the top my head correctly... :cool1: )

Back In Business
1st March 2007, 19:52
ususally after I've quoted a page number reference off the top my head correctly... :cool1: )That's just weird - I've worked with SOX people (managers) that did that. I thought they were weird too - and I told them so. I don't work there any more.

cojak
1st March 2007, 20:22
I only use it when someone thinks they can bully me - my laser stare usually just fries them to a crisp.

Normally it's managers who try it on - I do have a 'so fire me' attitude which hasn't backfired yet (mainly because I don't care if they do - I'm right, end of story). :cool:

Back In Business
1st March 2007, 20:32
Well, whatever gets you through the day :) . Small-minded, power-mad middle management drive me round the twist anyway. Please feel free to use your death stare on them at will.

Diestl
1st March 2007, 23:02
Originally Posted by cojak
ususally after I've quoted a page number reference off the top my head correctly...


I only use it when someone thinks they can bully me -

So when someone tries to bully you, you start quoting ITIL page numbers at them? Why would they bully you in the first place im wondering?

TheOmegaMan
2nd March 2007, 11:42
Only a woman would think that quoting ITIL page numbers is impressive. It is indicative of a woman who is trying to fit into a man's world, she thinks men will be impressed with her technical knowledge, that it will give her some sort of credibility.

It will never work luv. Much better you wear a tight fitting top or lower your neckline. That will get you noticed and respected. Use what God gave you, don't try and play dominoes with the Lions.

cojak
2nd March 2007, 21:06
Yeah right, Darlin'

The 4 inch scarlet heels often do the trick, too. (I save the leather mini skirt for special occasions...) :cool: