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MarillionFan
13th February 2007, 19:15
What the hell is so special about this Virtual Machine stuff? Flash in the pan or going to take off?

threaded
13th February 2007, 19:37
Oh dear...

I've been using it for years to model client networks etc.

DimPrawn
13th February 2007, 19:55
What the hell is so special about this Virtual Machine stuff? Flash in the pan or going to take off?

It's nothing for a trainee Crystal Reports 1.0 developer to worry about.

HTH

Back In Business
13th February 2007, 20:01
Virtual machines and VMWare ESX server are very handy bits of kit. Good for testing, QA labs, and pre-production setups. Wouldn't really recommend them for production environments - although some companies swear by them.

ASB
13th February 2007, 20:13
Virtual machines and VMWare ESX server are very handy bits of kit. Good for testing, QA labs, and pre-production setups. Wouldn't really recommend them for production environments - although some companies swear by them.

VMWare don't really seem to enthuse them for production. From a personal view I find them extremely good for developmemt. I run 4 VMs which represent the production environment on my notebook but find 2 problems:-

- The clock goes bonkers on my notebook
- Performance. Whilst it takes an age to boot I have a performance issue on the real kit which I can't get to the arse of. On the VM it just doesn't happen. something to do with the networking.

It's really good being able to present with just my notebook in workshops without having to take a container load of kit halfway round the world.

Back In Business
13th February 2007, 20:17
- The clock goes bonkers on my notebookAFAIK this is to do with the variable processor speed i.e. speedstep. No fix for it yet/ever.

portseven
13th February 2007, 21:39
Think of it like a Russian Doll, just with computers

portseven
13th February 2007, 21:44
Wouldn't really recommend them for production environments - although some companies swear by them.

The V-Motion stuff is very cool though, it allows you to 'move' a VM from one 'real machine' to another while the VM is still 'up'. So for example if you want to replace a component o Server A you simply V-Motion over all the VM's on Server A to Server B, then take Server A down to do the upgrade, then move all the VM's back onto Server A from Server B.

That sort of thing is very good for production environments. Add to that dynamic allocation of resources (e.g. more memory when the load gets heavy) and you have a top notch production environment.

There is also Xen which is an up-and-coming competitor to VMWare, and I also hear good things about Virtuoso

DimPrawn
13th February 2007, 21:54
Don't forget Microsoft Virtual PC.

It is now FREE. That's right free.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/downloads/sp1.mspx


And for the server, Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2.Which is FREE as well. That's right free.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/virtualserver/software/default.mspx

Right Bill, where's my cut of the profits?

VectraMan
13th February 2007, 22:02
So can you run Windows on Linux on Windows on Linux etc.?

I've seen clients using VMs to test software for legacy OSs (i.e. Win95, 2K, XP Home), but I'd argue whilst it's better than nothing, it's not a real test.

portseven
13th February 2007, 22:12
So can you run Windows on Linux on Windows on Linux etc.?

Yep thats the idea, Linux, Windows, Solaris, Open/Net/FreeBSD, DOS, Netscape, etc

Now that VM-Player is free (you can only 'play' VMs not create them) there is a growing community around VM Appliances (http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/) . So images of OS's tuned to a specific purpose, so you can have one for a particular mailserver, or security appliance etc.

MarillionFan
13th February 2007, 22:59
So this VM stuff is around to stay then?

Cowboy Bob
13th February 2007, 23:41
I've seen clients using VMs to test software for legacy OSs (i.e. Win95, 2K, XP Home), but I'd argue whilst it's better than nothing, it's not a real test.

It is 100% a real test. Nothing is emulated here, you are running the real OS on a real PC (yours). VMWare (or any of the others) just provides a layer in-between to allow the guest OS to boot in it's own process.

Cowboy Bob
13th February 2007, 23:46
Don't forget Microsoft Virtual PC.

It is now FREE. That's right free.


Probably because out of the big three (VMWare, Parallels and Virtual PC) the MS offering is by far the worst performer. I wouldn't recommend it. This is because originally it WAS an emulation of x86 running on PowerPC. I suspect that some of that emulation is still buried in there.

It's also been crippled by MS from what it once was. Originally it was a Mac product and MS bought it, removed the ability for it to run on a Mac host along with a whole bunch of other features that were Mac specific, then released their bastardised version on to the world.

Basically MS saw the VM world running away without them so they bought the only product that would sell to them and then made it worse in typical MS fashion.

Back In Business
14th February 2007, 07:37
MS Virtual Server is much better the Virtual PC but still nowhere near VMWare's offering.

MarillionFan
14th February 2007, 08:39
I understand that VMWare are to float on the stock market in the next few months.

n5gooner
14th February 2007, 08:40
I understand that VMWare are to float on the stock market in the next few months.

buy buy buy then!

wendigo100
14th February 2007, 09:05
Think of it like a Russian Doll, just with computers
So can you run Windows on Linux on Windows on Linux etc.?I've only seen VMware used to run virtual machines side by side on the same physical machine.

Are you saying that VMware also runs one VM inside another, and if so how common is this?

dotnetter
14th February 2007, 09:55
I worked for the biggest car manufacturer in the world and they used clustered VM's for their production environment.

darmstadt
14th February 2007, 10:11
Well VM has been around for over 30 years now and I use it quite often for running multiple zOS, VSE, TPF or zLinux guest systems. Its just the desktop crowd have now appropriated its concepts. Have a look at zVM 5.3 which has just been announced, you can run thousands of zLinux guests (I know someone who has run 20,000+ zLinux images under zVM.)

Cowboy Bob
14th February 2007, 10:17
Well VM has been around for over 30 years now and I use it quite often for running multiple zOS, VSE, TPF or zLinux guest systems. Its just the desktop crowd have now appropriated its concepts. Have a look at zVM 5.3 which has just been announced, you can run thousands of zLinux guests (I know someone who has run 20,000+ zLinux images under zVM.)

There's also Xen for Linux - http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/srg/netos/xen/ - which runs in the same way as the VMs do on zOS, i.e. at the OS level rather than in user space.

Mortimer Trent
6th September 2007, 16:00
Hello

Does anyone know of supplier or download/CBT type Media for VMWare training UK Based please...
Similar in style to "cbt nuggets" training CD/DVD

Oh, without me taking needing a small mortgage!



Bye the way cool forum!

Cowboy Bob
6th September 2007, 19:23
What the hell is so special about this Virtual Machine stuff? Flash in the pan or going to take off?

VMWare is on version 6. I was using it around 2001 to stop me having to have a gazillion PCs with different setups to test my stuff on. Do keep up old chap.