9/11 Conspiracy

[Jawz]

So does anyone believe Bush and/or CIA were somehow involved in instigating/organising the attacks on the Pentagon/WTC? Or was it just those chaps over at Al Qaeda?

[wendigo100]

No conspiracy. CUK has carried out a full and frank investigation, had a full and frank discussion, and presented its full and frank findings to the world. Frank is now on holiday.

[Jawz]

No conspiracy. CUK has carried out a full and frank investigation, had a full and frank discussion, and presented its full and frank findings to the world. Frank is now on holiday.

Ah has this been previously discussed?

[realityhack]

I don't know - I've seen Loose Change and a couple of other YouTube conspiracy videos, and you could fly a 747 through some of the gaps in their versions of events. A lot of supposition and not enough hard evidence - like most of Michael Moore's work - means they go a long way to discredit themselves.

The only one I did see with substance was by some (now fired and discredited, after he was offered $500k to work on other projects unrelated to this and refused) PHD Prof of Physics. That made me think. He basically put aside all the other surrounding stories, rumour, possible motives etc and concentrated on the elementary physics of a building collapsing.

The footage included 'natural' collapses and controlled demolitions, interviews with respected structural engineers (some of whom worked on the WTC) and a study of melting points of the materials involved.

WTC 1, 2 & 7 fell into their own 'footprints' precisely, at almost exactly the speed of freefall. Think about that. Just that one fact. Knowing a little about physics myself - that doesn't make sense - except if all resistance below the falling upper floors was removed, right down to the basement levels.

I don't really care about all the other issues and crazy stories flying about.

[Jawz]

Well the conspiracy theories I've read are flawed to the extreme. So I personally don't believe it.

[HankWangford]

Well the conspiracy theories I've read are flawed to the extreme. So I personally don't believe it.

not so sure, I still don't understand why the big cover-up, lack of coverage & film footage from the pentagon crash, how did a huge plane make such a small impact hole etc etc

[Bagpuss]

I don't believe our democratically elected governments would hide anything from us, participate in nefarious activity or lie to us. It's simply not in the nature of politicians. Anyone who believes otherwise should be sent to a secret base for reprogramming.

[zathras]

The Pentagon is debatable. The video when it was release was so bad it could have been anything. I still can't equate the hole in the wall with being hit by an airline travelling at some fair speed.

Flight 93 probably did happen. If it was shot down by the military it really is no surprise if you consider what they thought it was going to do.

To find the truth I think you need to go back to the tail end of World War II, and consider the role of an organisation called the Project for a New American Century. As World War II ended, the cold war started. America invested heavily in the production of Electronics and the like while fighting this including the Space Race; which was governed by the political imperative of proving Capitalism better than communism.

So America's economic power rested on the communist bogeyman. When the Berlin wall fell, preceeding the collapse of various communist regimes so the basis for this power went away. Enter the PNAC, who count as leading members Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, both leading members of the Bush Cabinet. This concluded that for America to retain power it needed a bogeyman.

Now one of those people killed when the WTC center collapsed was the head of security. He had previously been working for the FBI in it's anti-terrorist activities and had been investigating the previous attempt to bring down the WTC by detonating a car bomb in the basement garage. Many times his investigation was stymied and he was prevented from investigating the people who it is now believed carried out the 9/11 highjackings.

In addition was the abject failure of the US military to tell the difference between a genuine highjacking and it's own excercise.

So what I think was that certain elements of the US government did know it was going to happen but for other political reasons wanted it to succeed. They may indeed have pre-planted explosives in the WTC. I really don't know. I don't believe what was said on a BBC 2 programme last week. That the 'squids' were in fact air being forced out of the building. Why on earth did it come out there and not say a few floors above (look at the film the squids occur some few floors below the collapse). I think the speed of the collapse was far too fast.

The only thing for certain is that we may never know.

And the US has it's bogeyman.

[Spacecadet]

about the collapse:

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

Makes a lot more sense then a 400m tall building being rigged with explosives.

The only conspiracy that went on was the subsequent cover up of intelligence organisations failing to act or pass on vital information.

[Churchill]

IWTC 1, 2 & 7 fell into their own 'footprints' precisely, at almost exactly the speed of freefall. Think about that. Just that one fact. Knowing a little about physics myself - that doesn't make sense - except if all resistance below the falling upper floors was removed, right down to the basement levels.

How much resistance do you think one floor at a time would put up against the weight of many floors above collapsing straight down?

It would be like me carrying SallyAnne then the both of us collapsing on top of you. Not a pretty picture.