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View Full Version : The legallity of Umbrella companies



men0bcs
1st October 2004, 12:42
As an addition to my rather long post below, I'll just ask a simple question that has probably been asked hundreds of times on here before.

Exactly where do I stand, legally, by working under an Umbrella company? Seeing as I will be paying virtually no tax (£10 and £13 NI) am I going to be getting a visit from the taxman?

Buckstewerbuck
1st October 2004, 15:04
I do know that K&B will not allow you to pay to represent below minimum wage legislation.

I also do know that some other Umbrellas let you put through as many expenses as you like, leading to almost zero tax.

If you look at it from a laymans point of view....who would take a job paying £1000 a month, when it costs them £999 in expenses to carry out the job.

men0bcs
1st October 2004, 15:57
Hmmm, just emailed K&B about the subsistence expenses they say I can claim, and apparently, no receipts are needed to claim £29 a day against tax.

I'm getting more and more worried that i have made the wrong decision!

Buckstewerbuck
1st October 2004, 16:08
Your expense allowances are extra-generous thanks to the special dispensation we've negotiated with the Inland Revenue. This means certain expenses can be claimed without receipts and you don’t have to worry the Inland Revenue will tax you later (provided the expense has been properly claimed).

Thats taken from the Giantgroup website in regards to Umbrella expense claims. Looks like its standard procedure to claim expenses without receipts in certain instances.

SupremeSpod
1st October 2004, 16:19
Do not use Giant, they're crap, the don't answer the 'phones and cost me a lot of money due to their inability to forward the required paperwork to Hector on time.

Spod - In "And 360 group are as bad!" mode!

Buckstewerbuck
1st October 2004, 16:21
I use K&B Ltd company services and they are cheap, efficient and always answer the phone.

no idea about the Umbrella side though, but still cheap.

fiddleabout
1st October 2004, 19:09
Err... didn't SJD point out that you are bloody K&B the other day - you even admitted it.

I'm not rising to the bait of discussing fictitious expense claims in any detail - you may get caught and if you are you will be hammered. The dispensation is not one to claim expenses that were not incurred - please just ask yourself - is it likely to be legal?

Dispensations are for the convenience of the umbrella only. If they tell you different thay are a) lying b) probably ripping you off in some way - you already know that they are dishonest.

PS - I've complained about you to CUK - this is an obvious spoof thread to sell your services. Bloody crooks.

men0bcs
1st October 2004, 19:24
Complained about me!

Honestly, I don't work for K&B

I work for Ford Motor Company, my work email address is bsaund21@ford.com email me there and I will reply on monday!

Honestly, a friend reccomended K&B to me, said they will add atleast £100 to my weekly take-home.

I do not want to claim expenses that are not real, this is the first job I have had since leaving university, so the first experience I have ever ahd of something like this. I emailed K&B and they replied with an estimate of what my wages would be. It seemed to good to be true, so I have been looking on the internet for some advice, and you guys seem to be pretty helpful!

fiddleabout
1st October 2004, 20:05
Buckstewerbuck is K&B

I must also declare an interest - together with Rhino I run ************ (link at top of page) who market an honest umbrella. Your take home may be slightly less than through a bunch of crooks but if the IR decide to investigate your affairs (up to 6 years later) you will be squeaky clean and not facing a huge bill for back tax, interest, and penalties.

You should also consider the fact that tax evasion is now a criminal offence.

Rhino - when you read this please check how to tip the wink to the IR - as you know I'm away for a couple of weeks.

Debbie Reinvented
1st October 2004, 20:47
You should also consider the fact that tax evasion is now a criminal offence.

always has been fiddle...... it's avoidance thats ok, although it's getting harder and harder to find any decent loopholes to exploit

fiddleabout
1st October 2004, 20:55
It used to be a civil offence.

You can't be jailed for a civil offence but you can for a criminal offence. Serious evasion used to be treated as fraud I think.

Debbie Reinvented
1st October 2004, 21:04
Been illegal for a while

The difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion is the thickness of a prison wall.


~ Denis Healey ~

fiddleabout
1st October 2004, 21:07
Intoduced in 2000

www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/bulletins/tb49.htm#new (http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/bulletins/tb49.htm#new)

Debbie Reinvented
1st October 2004, 21:09
given that my memory gives up at anything more than a couple of weeks ago ... 2000 is forever ago to me!

fiddleabout
1st October 2004, 21:11
It stuck in my memory because they brought it in when IR35 started.

Coincidence?

Buckstewerbuck
4th October 2004, 10:58
fiddle what is your problem.

I do not work for K&B...I admitted to trying to get referrals...

the quote about the 'we've' bit was taken from the giantgroup website. I just wanted to give an example of a dispensation.

You cant just go ranting about how one firm is dishonest bunch of crooks, and yours is honest saintly!!! WTF

apologises for whatever I have done to get you going, but I do think you have taken alot things out of context, and jumped to wrong conclusions.