"Basic" Packages from Accountants

**dmini** · 30 March 2007, 10:24

Yes
I'm running this approach at the moment, in my 1st year of ltd - know two accountants who do this. Just ring up normally if I have any questions, get an answer quickly. Suppose they might get round to billing me at some point

**malvolio** · 30 March 2007, 10:59

Sorry but this whole attitude kills me. Work out how many hours a year you spend doing all these fiddly little tasks like record keeping and payroll, remembering to include some time for keeping up with legislation changes and budgets, and some more time keeping track of all the bits you have to send in. Double it, because while you're doing this work you're not earning and you're not having time off either. Mulitply it by your hourly rate. For the average contractor, it comes out at around £2k a year. Even the most expensive accountants we suggest don't get close to that.

**rootsnall** · 30 March 2007, 11:03

In my early days of contracting there were quite a few 'local' accountants who just billed you for the work done and you could just get your annual accounts completed I guess. However I think you'll struggle to undercut the monthly packages out there by much and its just not worth the hastle.

**dmini** · 30 March 2007, 11:19

Generally I agree. My accountant is a friend, who has done my personal returns for years free, coffee and cakes provided by her, so I felt obliged to let her do my company stuff, initially at least, and the more I do the less I paid, so tended to do more myself, as encouraged by her.
BUT I don't do the forms, I pay my hubby to do them! As far as I can see, this is tax efficient, and keeps him out of mischief. I just gave him my timesheet today, he produced the invoice & sent it off. I dont have to do anything! He's done the accounts spreadsheet, VAT return, etc. I will fill in my expenses tonight, and he will process everything. HMRC cannot complain about anything I pay him - as he is doing the work, and the pay is within the accepted limits.

I still rely on my accountant to keep me up to date on any HMRC tweaks, give me advice on expenses etc, and make sure everything gets submitted on time!

**Nixon Williams** · 30 March 2007, 11:31

From our point there is little saving if any of a client doing some of the work, any decent accountant would check what you have done anyway and so there is no cost saving.

Our systems are geared up to keep on top of the affairs each month and this eases the whole process.

Alan

**Euro-commuter** · 30 March 2007, 11:37

Originally posted by malvolio

Work out how many hours a year you spend doing all these fiddly little tasks ..... Double it, because while you're doing this work you're not earning and you're not having time off either....

Very clever, but doesn't wash. You are doing this (in Robert Townsend's memorable phrase) for fun or profit. If it is fun (OK just covering all the cases) then you are having time off. If it is for profit, i.e. to save money on accountant's fees, then it is work: calculate it at single time and you'll see whether it was worth doing or not.

No logical reason to double it, but nice try!

**malvolio** · 30 March 2007, 11:51

Originally posted by Euro-commuter

No logical reason to double it, but nice try!

No reason other than four years Cost Accountancy training and 30 years running P&Ls up to around £17m a year. But what do I know.

Even so, don't double it and it's £1k a year, as opposed to the £1020 fees the most expensive of our regulars charges. For £20 a year, I'd rather be in the garden myself.

**hyperD** · 30 March 2007, 11:53

Are there reasons such as having a stamp from a reknown and qualified accountants compared with Joe Blogs that would reduce the chances of having your returns scrutinised more by the HMRC?

**martinb** · 30 March 2007, 11:53

Originally posted by malvolio

Sorry but this whole attitude kills me. Work out how many hours a year you spend doing all these fiddly little tasks like record keeping and payroll, remembering to include some time for keeping up with legislation changes and budgets, and some more time keeping track of all the bits you have to send in. Double it, because while you're doing this work you're not earning and you're not having time off either. Mulitply it by your hourly rate. For the average contractor, it comes out at around £2k a year. Even the most expensive accountants we suggest don't get close to that.

We will agree to differ. I'm not claiming everyone would want to do this. But I don't think the admin time I spend is significantly more than you would spend filling in a spreadhseet or providing documentation to your accountant. PAYE takes literally 10 minutes a month. VAT takes about 10 minutes a quarter.

And whilst I understand the logic about time taken from doing other things, I do this kind of thing during moments when I would otherwise simply be watching crap on the TV, so I don't feel its really costing me anything at all.

I could pay someone to wash my car too, but I don't. I can do it myself even though it takes time. At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference - and we simply have different preferences!

"Basic" Packages from Accountants