employed or what?

[Euro-commuter]

Looks to me like some people (HMRC, Chanceller, Ms Hewitt, etc) don't want people like us (most contractors) to work self-employed, or through our owned Ltd Cos if they start to act like companies.

Fine. Supposing I just want a quiet life. Just how am I supposed to work? It is all very well to declare, as I think Dawn Primarolo did, that people "should be employed", but what does that mean for a contractor? Employed by whom?
- Each client, for the time that they want us? Can we and they do that on contracting terms?
- Or some other party, like Accenture? But they will rake off how much??

Or should one just not contract, because the Labour view of the world is that everybody is either an employer or an employee?

[Burdock]

Can someone explain why we can't operate as sole traders, and why the government do not encourage us to follow this route?

From what I have read, I understand that an EB lost a legal case, for what reason I'm not sure, and since then they refuse to deal with sole traders?

Is there nothing the government can do to remedy this? And- would they want to?

[Kyajae]

Looks to me like some people (HMRC, Chanceller, Ms Hewitt, etc) don't want people like us (most contractors) to work self-employed, or through our owned Ltd Cos if they start to act like companies.

Fine. Supposing I just want a quiet life. Just how am I supposed to work? It is all very well to declare, as I think Dawn Primarolo did, that people "should be employed", but what does that mean for a contractor? Employed by whom?
- Each client, for the time that they want us? Can we and they do that on contracting terms?
- Or some other party, like Accenture? But they will rake off how much??

Or should one just not contract, because the Labour view of the world is that everybody is either an employer or an employee?

Clouds of self-doubt are ceeping in.

[Maxamus]

ye man.
Seems to me you cant make an honest living in this country no more. The hardworkers and people who get off they backside to do good actually end up getting shafted whilst the scum of the earth get the benefits.

Things i've learnt:

a) If you want to make money then expect a struggle and expect to pay more to the arseholes in power.

b) If you want to have a "good life" then get on the dole. A house plus money will be provided for you so you can watch "Trisha" on a regular basis. You could double your income by pairing up with an opposite sex and "producing goods".

[ASB]

Can someone explain why we can't operate as sole traders, and why the government do not encourage us to follow this route?

From what I have read, I understand that an EB lost a legal case, for what reason I'm not sure, and since then they refuse to deal with sole traders?

Is there nothing the government can do to remedy this? And- would they want to?

It's about risk. It is perfectly possible to be a sole trader and operate (from a legal perspective). Problem is that in a status enquiry it's the client who gets the bill if you failed and were considered employed. So in practical terms it is damn near impossible.

The transfer of debts provisions will make it worse. Here the obvious intent is simply to force people into PAYE temps through fear. "Ok, so we consider this a status failure/should have been PAYE due to MsC legislation, now we're going to stiff someone for some tax".

[zathras]

Can someone explain why we can't operate as sole traders, and why the government do not encourage us to follow this route?

From what I have read, I understand that an EB lost a legal case, for what reason I'm not sure, and since then they refuse to deal with sole traders?

Is there nothing the government can do to remedy this? And- would they want to?

S134 ICTA 1988.

The 1988 act was a tax consolidation act. It requires that an Agency placing a person under the control of a 3rd Party deducts PAYE from any fee.

The rule was originally in the 1978 Finance Act under the last Old Labour Government

[swamp]

I've always reckoned HMRC should allow contractors to work as sole traders. It would benefit everyone (apart from the accountants...)

Trouble is the government probably fears an exodus of 'normal' employed workers to sole traders, with consequent loss of taxes and union rights. The average man/woman in the street would be very tempted by a 10% pay rise (say) in exchange for complete loss of employment rights, especially if they are young and change job frequently anyhow. Also, self employed people aren't natural Labour voters.

[ASB]

S134 ICTA 1988.

The 1988 act was a tax consolidation act. It requires that an Agency placing a person under the control of a 3rd Party deducts PAYE from any fee.

The rule was originally in the 1978 Finance Act under the last Old Labour Government

It doesn't require that absolutely. It does need personal service and direction and control as well. But that does effectively take out the agency route.

[wendigo100]

Clouds of self-doubt are ceeping in.

seeping or creeping?

[threaded]

You are working from a set of miss-conceptions. The New (and old) Labour just plain hate people like us. Many of them wish we would just die. Gas chamber, bullet they don't care, just die.

Unfortunately for them, they have to work within the restrictions of current society, so they can and will do everything they can to make our lives a living hell. If that involves Kafkaesque rules and regulations, so much the better. If it involves leaning of judges to change their findings, better still.

HTH