How can permies earn 6 figures nowdays?

**Hart-floot** · 23 July 2007, 15:40

Originally posted by dotnetter

I remember when I was a bit younger, I dropped this girl off at her house after a night out, it was MASSIVE, boat outside, two mercs in the drive, double garage etc, she said her dad earned around 150k a year, I asked what he did and she said he was a computer programmer. Anyway found out he worked on ATM software.

I thought wow luckily I'm in the game

But now, I get permie jobs sent to me for senior C++ positions in the financial industry and banks etc, and the wage is 55-65k.

I mean someone with 15 years + with C++ in financial should be on more than that no?

Anyway I know you can earn six figures as a contractor but how as a permie? Not that I want to be a permie I want to earn nine figures through my company lol

Am I deluded or did permies earn alot more back then (bear in mind Ive only been in the industry for 8 years)

I'm pretty certain real wages in IT were higher, relative to other professions in the 1980's & 1990's.
The bubble burst around y2k /start of the dotcom era when the multinationals and big consultancies started to outsource on a big scale and started to persuade Governments, especially in the English speaking-world, to grant more work-permits, allow in more economic migration because of perceived skills shortage etc.

As always its supply and demand - increase supply of available personel then rates (permie and contract) drop over time relative to other jobs.

**NoddY** · 23 July 2007, 15:42

The value of labour has fallen in real terms throughout the world. In some cases it has has been compounded by an absolute fall too.

This is because fundamentally the world's population is mushrooming. Labour supply continues onward and upward.

The only answer is to make a transition into the capitalist class and become a rentier, but this is becoming increasingly hard because the value of money is declining.

**kingshuk** · 23 July 2007, 15:48

she said her dad earned around 150k a year, I asked what he did and she said he was a computer programmer. Anyway found out he worked on ATM software.

2 possibilities -
1. Maybe she was just bluffing knowing that you were in IT

OR
2. Maybe he was bit more than a programmer. Senior IT guys in the investment banks earn quite a bit more than 65K. My last project manager (in my permy days) was a high flyer in the IT dept and earned about 80K (before bonus). He was a VP with about 8 years of work ex (in the same bank). I guess people with 10-15 years will earn more. But I am sure just a programming job will not fetch you so much.

**lilelvis2000** · 23 July 2007, 15:59

The complete absence of new entrants into the IT field has increased the demand for work permits - lobbied by big business - which has dropped real wages. Those on work permits are often happy working for 20% less than what a native would work for.

Why the lack of recuits? IT is no longer a long-term job. Once you start to get to mid 40's you are undesirable. You have children, a nagging partner, other issues. You can't be relied upon to work long hours, weekends with no overtime pay. If sacked - you can't find new work.

Maybe in 20 years time when most of the current big batch of programmers who are mainly in their 40's retire and there's no one to take their place, will salaries be pressured to increase. Both to entice new recruits and to keep staff from retiring.

Just what I think anyway...for what its worth.

**sasguru** · 23 July 2007, 16:09

Just look at the level of most of the posts on this board.
That should tell you why most IT people don't earn 6 figs.

HTH

**dotnetter** · 23 July 2007, 16:11

Originally posted by sasguru

Just look at the level of most of the posts on this board.
That should tell you why most IT people don't earn 6 figs.

HTH

**fzbucks** · 23 July 2007, 16:22

Originally posted by sasguru

Just look at the level of most of the posts on this board.
That should tell you why most IT people don't earn 6 figs.

HTH

I thought you had left???

**Ivor1** · 23 July 2007, 17:25

Dev managers at most the banks I have worked at are on £80k - £100k, same for project managers, plus bonus and pension. £100k plus is for programme managers, £100k - £125k director level, with a max of £150k - £175k for CIO, but bonus at that level around £90 - £100k plus share options. I know this as I used to have to do all the payroll and bonus MI reporting in my permy days

**BA to the Stars** · 23 July 2007, 19:34

Originally posted by sasguru

Just look at the level of most of the posts on this board.
That should tell you why most IT people don't earn 6 figs.

HTH

Coming from a man who pays to be employed

How can permies earn 6 figures nowdays?