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sasguru
26th October 2007, 10:37
We know ShaunBhoy and Baggy are plebs of the lowest order, but what class do you see yourself as? Does the concept exist in modern Britain or is it an outdated anachronism?

chasingtheaurora
26th October 2007, 10:39
It's an absolutely outdated anachronism of the highest order.

AtW
26th October 2007, 10:40
Now now, cats who lick their own balls should be positioned way higher than shaunbhoy. :laugh

Churchill
26th October 2007, 10:43
It's an absolutely outdated anachronism of the highest order.

Spoken like a true Scot!
Some vinegar for that chip?

chasingtheaurora
26th October 2007, 10:45
Spoken like a true Scot!
Some vinegar for that chip?

I'll have you know, I'm a well-balanced Scot.

I've a chip on both shoulders.

threaded
26th October 2007, 10:46
I can trace my ancestry to before the Norman conquest of England. Which was 1066AD for you who went to themed schools.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 10:49
Felix Dennis summed this up nicely and I think it will give you all something to chew and on admit to yourselves where you sit in the pecking order...

DENNIS'S WEALTH GUIDE

-£2m The comfortable poor

£2m-£5m The comfortably off

£5m-£15m The comfortably wealthy

£15m-£40m The lesser rich

£40m-£75m The comfortably rich

£75m-£100m The rich

£100m-£200m The seriously rich

£200m-£400m The truly rich

£400m-£999m The filthy rich

More than £999m The super rich

© Felix Dennis 2006

Extracted from How To Get Rich by Felix Dennis


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1084093.ece





So Gentlemen, giving consideration to the above, come on fess up, where do you all stand ?

Milan.

sasguru
26th October 2007, 10:49
I can trace my ancestry to before the Norman conquest of England. Which was 1066AD for you who went to themed schools.

I hate to burst your bubble but it's clear you're not aristocratic material. The upper class are always thin. I would bet your ancestors were swine-herdsmen.

chasingtheaurora
26th October 2007, 10:51
And how vulgar to be discussing such matters!

Throw another socialist on the fire, Dennis.

AtW
26th October 2007, 10:51
I am from Atlantis.

threaded
26th October 2007, 10:59
I hate to burst your bubble but it's clear you're not aristicratic material. The upper class are always thin. I would bet your ancestors were swine-herdsmen.
Always a good idea in this game to have a friendly pig-farmer in pocket. Ask the Lone Gunman. ;)

Anyways, not much fat on me, it's mostly muscle. :D

realityhack
26th October 2007, 11:04
I'm a proper porker me - a reet good sign of my workin class eritige. innit.

r0bly0ns
26th October 2007, 11:10
I have always maintained there are only 2 classes in this country, Working Class and Upper Class.

Middle class only exists in the minds of people who think they are in it :wink


(I'm working class BTW).

daviejones
26th October 2007, 11:14
Where is the "lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut" class for SadGuru?

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 11:18
I conclude the truth is too painful for you all to take the Felix Dennis wealth test, more conforting to assume as a mortgagee you are middle class :laugh

Milan.

wendigo100
26th October 2007, 11:20
Class is not about money. Alan Sugar, the Beckhams and that ASBO jailbird lottery winner are all stinking rich, but don't have an ounce of class between them.

sasguru
26th October 2007, 11:22
Class is not about money. Alan Sugar, the Beckhams and that ASBO jailbird lottery winner are all stinking rich, but don't have an ounce of class between them.

Indeed. Milan thinks he's a king because he owns a grey Passat. Still he's come far from his peasant roots.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 11:26
Sas,

I conclude you don't even register on the Felix Dennis wealth scale :laugh


Milan.

tay
26th October 2007, 11:30
I am mentally upper class, fiscally working class ... but us Kiwis dont buy into this class malarky.


10 min

snaw
26th October 2007, 11:59
You're showing your inbuillt snobbery their Sas, and is the fundemental reason I object to the word chav - apparently it's used to describe a kind of person (Not very likeable or pleasant), but in actuality it's an acceptable way for those who think they're somehow better than working class people, to refer to working class people.

If it isn't obvious, working class and proud of it - but probably disowned because I live an essentially middle class life.

Saying that I think the whole class system it's an anachronism that's on it's way out, but still lingers round occasionally rearing it's ugy head.

SallyAnne
26th October 2007, 12:04
working class and proud of it - but live an essentially middle class life.



Ditto.

SandyDown
26th October 2007, 12:05
where's am a foreigner option

sasguru
26th October 2007, 12:07
You're showing your inbuillt snobbery their Sas, and is the fundemental reason I object to the word chav - apparently it's used to describe a kind of person (Not very likeable or pleasant), but in actuality it's an acceptable way for those who think they're somehow better than working class people, to refer to working class people.

If it isn't obvious, working class and proud of it - but probably disowned because I live an essentially middle class life.

Saying that I think the whole class system it's an anachronism that's on it's way out, but still lingers round occasionally rearing it's ugy head.

It's only light-hearted, snaw. I voted myself a chav.
Strictly speaking you are right, but I think most people's mental image of chav is a certain type of behaviour, rather than a class of person

threaded
26th October 2007, 12:11
It's only light-hearted, snaw. I voted myself a chav.
Strictly speaking you are right, but I think most people's mental image of chav is a certain type of behaviour, rather than a class of person

Yes, working class behaviour. :laugh

chasingtheaurora
26th October 2007, 12:12
Snaws' point brings home a particular issue; are we the nouveau riche of our own home communities and as such are we likely to be considered ostracised as a result?

For example, my Dad was an electrician and occasional driver - he was well chuffed when, aged 50-something, he started to earn more than £20K / year.

snaw
26th October 2007, 12:13
It's only light-hearted, snaw. I voted myself a chav.
Strictly speaking you are right, but I think most people's mental image of chav is a certain type of behaviour, rather than a class of person

Fair enough, you can never tell on this board. I think I like to think that most people view chav's as a kind of person, but equally I believe it's become acceptable for a significant minority to refer to the 'plebs' in a modern and socially acceptable way.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 12:22
aurora et al,

you don't seem to be getting it

forget your lower, working, middle, upper class

what really matters is how much you've got

and as you will see from the reaction in this thread to the Felix Dennis Wealth guide the majority here, when considered in the bigger scheme of things, don't even register


aurora is a casing point, your dad was happy to earn 20k and maybe you earn 100k, but jeeeeez they are not so far apart, at the end of the day, unless we have a few million to fall backon and therefore provide a private income, like it or not, we are all flippin' well poor

now, as we begin to accept we are all poor, we must also accept that being poor and thinking you are middle class is simply a delusion demonstrated by the majority here


Milan.

sasguru
26th October 2007, 12:24
what really matters is how much you've got

.

Spoken like the true working class oik that you are.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 12:28
Sas,

yes I am working class,

you are however missing the point, AGAIN.

let me put it in a simpler way, what should matter to all of us privately, is not whethere we are middle class, but privately, how much we have.

you may say that you have all of the trappings of a middle class life, nice car, nice house, kids in private school, BUT, if like the majority of the self certified middle class this lot is sponsored by the never never then you only need a couple of weeks out of work and suddenly you slide down the snake and you are back to working class

whereas, if you are comfortable privately knowing that you have a few quid to always full back on, you will rest peacefully that this class nonsense is for those who have nout

as you know, ignorance is bliss

Milan.

sasguru
26th October 2007, 12:31
Nah...Still an oik. You can take the boy out of the council estate etc...

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 12:33
ok, I accept that as a resignation and agreement to the point I am making

Sas, in this world, in this life, there are leaders and followers, you my friend fall into the latter camp

this in itself is not a bad thing as without you followers the leaders would not be where they are today

keep up the good work

Milan.

chef
26th October 2007, 12:37
surely a better question would be to ask what do people define as working class/middle etc. ?

the reason i mention it is because I dont know what the borderline is between work and middle?

from history i believed it was defined essentially by cleanliness of job (i.e those in office/management had white collar jobs and so were middle, those who got their hands dirty/blue collar jobs were working class.. is this correct?

if that still stands i dont wear any collar to work and so im classless :laugh

wendigo100
26th October 2007, 12:41
forget your lower, working, middle, upper class

what really matters is how much you've got.I beg to differ milan. The title of the thread clearly says "What class are you?" :rolleyes:

Why don't you start a vulgar new thread called "How much have you got?" if you want to see how many people are not on the bottom rung of Dennis's table. :wink

threaded might be your only taker though.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 12:43
chef,

the point is, these days the whole thing has been blurred to the extent that as long as you vote new lie, have a mortgage then you must be middle class

same as everything, many moons ago, and I am talking back in the 1920's the Manager of a company was the most senior person, today, a manager can be a manager of nout but simply a devalued title - perhaps a bit like today's currency valuations compared to the same 80 years ago ?

can it be that simply everything (apart from property) gets devalued over time ?

Milan.

Bagpuss
26th October 2007, 12:45
I can trace my ancestry to before the Norman conquest of England. Which was 1066AD for you who went to themed schools.

Ditto, SAS can trace his back to a sperm bank in Gravesend

sasguru
26th October 2007, 12:46
Milan,

I know it must hurt not to be rich AND to be a peasant at the same time.
I empathise with your pain.
But at least you have the Grey Passat.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 12:46
wendigo,

with the greatest of respect you read my comment with the wrong glasses and therefore wrong perspective

I said, what matters is how much you have got

now, this is a private subject, and the question did not mean you have to tell everybody

it simply means the class titles are for those with nout, because those with something don't need or worry about the class title because they have it anyway


take this away with you, instead of thinking to yourself am I middle class, think to yourself, how much do I have ?

and remember that does not mean write it here, that would as you and others have pointed out be unecessary and missing the point

Milan.

threaded
26th October 2007, 12:47
Ditto, SAS can trace his back to a sperm bank in Gravesend

Oh, I thought it was a cold park bench and a bag of chips. :tongue

Clippy
26th October 2007, 12:57
Indeed. Milan thinks he's a king because he owns a grey Passat. Still he's come far from his peasant roots.

and I bet he has a donkey pulling it ala Borat

http://tinyurl.com/3ayvza

sasguru
26th October 2007, 13:00
Oh, I thought it was a cold park bench and a bag of chips. :tongue

And a can of pop.

chasingtheaurora
26th October 2007, 13:03
Milan - are you Czech, or do you have Czech ancestry?

Benes is, you'll recall, a well-known name in the Czech Republic - and not particularly well appreciated by certain members of Czech society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Bene%C5%A1

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 13:05
isn't this question a little off topic

no, not czech, no czech ancestry

just found the name amusing

are you from the aurora or do you aurora ancestry ?



Milan.

chasingtheaurora
26th October 2007, 13:08
Apologies - Milan is a Czech first name, and Benes is a Czech surname so put two and two together and came up with five.

And whilst not "of" the aurora, have been close to it often enough and am spending a month with it soon. Feel free to visit the website www.chasingtheaurora.com.

milanbenes
26th October 2007, 13:11
right back to the discussion,


I see the majority here are those who are questioning their class and who do not realise that true class is built on a foundation of wealth and not by having a house car and lifestyle supported by the never never

Milan.

threaded
26th October 2007, 13:15
right back to the discussion,


I see the majority here are those who are questioning their class and who do not realise that true class is built on a foundation of wealth and not by having a house car and lifestyle supported by the never never

Milan.

Spot on.

robnjc
26th October 2007, 13:24
2alpha, then 3 alpha, 4B, L5B, L6A, U6A then I left school

was that not thte clas you meant?

DodgyAgent
26th October 2007, 13:31
You're showing your inbuillt snobbery their Sas, and is the fundemental reason I object to the word chav - apparently it's used to describe a kind of person (Not very likeable or pleasant), but in actuality it's an acceptable way for those who think they're somehow better than working class people, to refer to working class people.

If it isn't obvious, working class and proud of it - but probably disowned because I live an essentially middle class life.

Saying that I think the whole class system it's an anachronism that's on it's way out, but still lingers round occasionally rearing it's ugy head.

There will always be a class system for as long as we have the rights to do as we please and pick the groups to which we wish to belong. We are tribal beings and need to feel a sense of attachment that defines us. The great thing about the UK is that class cannot be "bought" with money.
So to say that class is an outdated anachronism merely shows a lack of understanding of basic human nature.

Bagpuss
26th October 2007, 13:33
SAS has used two words today he doesn't really understand the meaning of :

-Class
-Humility

Could that be because he has neither?

snaw
26th October 2007, 13:40
There will always be a class system for as long as we have the rights to do as we please and pick the groups to which we wish to belong. We are tribal beings and need to feel a sense of attachment that defines us. The great thing about the UK is that class cannot be "bought" with money.
So to say that class is an outdated anachronism merely shows a lack of understanding of basic human nature.

Well having lived in several countries where the class system is almost negligible I'd say that's patently not true. I wouldn't say doesn't exist because there is always rich and poor, but class in the British sense isn't a world wide phenomenon.

DodgyAgent
26th October 2007, 13:41
Well having lived in several countries where the class system is almost negligible I'd say that's patently not true. I wouldn't say doesn't exist because there is always rich and poor, but class in the British sense isn't a world wide phenomenon.

Which countries are those snaw?

snaw
26th October 2007, 13:44
Which countries are those snaw?

Holland, USA, Australia.

DodgyAgent
26th October 2007, 13:47
Holland, USA, Australia.

I have only been to Australia and I have to say that class is certainly defined by money (by those who have it anyway). If you live in any society there is a class system. It may vary in its effect but it still exists, and it always will.

rootsnall
26th October 2007, 13:48
Holland, USA, Australia.

Sydney and Melbourne have a small but snotty 'upper class' based around a number of exclusive private schools, pretty much like the UK.

Bagpuss
26th October 2007, 13:52
The great thing about the UK is that class cannot be "bought" with money.

That's not true, if you go back to the time of the great plague, yesterdays Baldrick became Squire of the manor in a very short time, due to population reduction/ demand for Labour/ wage inflation. These people soon wore the badges of their new class, which their money had bought them. Many of the British aristocracy have a Baldrick not so far back down the family tree, so it could be argued they have no class.

snaw
26th October 2007, 13:52
In my experience, having lived in the countries mentioned - the class system isn't based on what school you went to, or what your parents did or any of that nonsense - yes there is rich/poor snobbery but it's not based on background but on current achievments and how much wonga you now have.

snaw
26th October 2007, 13:54
Sydney and Melbourne have a small but snotty 'upper class' based around a number of exclusive private schools, pretty much like the UK.

I'm good mates with many of those people from the kind of backgrounds and schools you mention - some of them from pretty wealthy families by any stretch of the imagination, and snooty 'upper classes' isn't a term I'd use for them, and for sure is one they'd be deeply offended by - there is a fundemental working class streak running through most Aussies, no matter what kind of money their families come from.

DodgyAgent
26th October 2007, 14:02
In my experience, having lived in the countries mentioned - the class system isn't based on what school you went to, or what your parents did or any of that nonsense - yes there is rich/poor snobbery but it's not based on background but on current achievments and how much wonga you now have.

But is it a good thing that your class should be defined by how much money you have? It can be argued that the upside of the British class system is that your class can also be defined by your manners and behaviour.

threaded
26th October 2007, 14:05
Holland, USA, Australia.

Holland not have a class system? Oh deary deary me. :rollin:

And Denmark is worse than UK: if you don't have a Director who went to 'that' school you can go whistle, and if you have two, you have to beat customers off with a stick...

Bagpuss
26th October 2007, 14:05
If it's manners and behaviour then some people on here are underclass:laugh

wendigo100
26th October 2007, 14:08
But is it a good thing that your class should be defined by how much money you have? It can be argued that the upside of the British class system is that your class can also be defined by your manners and behaviour.Now we are getting somewhere.

rootsnall
26th October 2007, 14:08
I'm good mates with many of those people from the kind of backgrounds and schools you mention - some of them from pretty wealthy families by any stretch of the imagination, and snooty 'upper classes' isn't a term I'd use for them, and for sure is one they'd be deeply offended by - there is a fundemental working class streak running through most Aussies, no matter what kind of money their families come from.

The british equivalent would also be offended as the majority of people from the exclusive UK schools wouldn't snub you or exclude because of your accent and initial appearance and manner. Some would though and there is a similar small group in Oz.

chicane
26th October 2007, 14:42
Those complaining about folk who use the word 'chav' to perceive themselves as being 'above' others have never had the misfortune of interacting with real 'chavs'. Real chavs are defined by behaviour and attitude rather than background, appearance and dress sense.

Real chavs live their lives with no respect or consideration for the honest taxpaying folk who pay for the sportswear, cigarettes and alcohol so loved by the chav population. The reason people look down on these idiots is precisely for this reason.