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Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:09
Ok, does any wise soul here contract hire their car through their limited company, if so how's it going?

I am very seriously considering the Porsche Cayman through a contract hire deal through my company, although I only got my license a month ago. Insurance is £4000 odd so just under a couple of weeks work so not so bad.

Also, considering the average salary here, what are you driving, Any sports car drivers here?

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:10
You sir are a wind up merchant and I claim my reconditioned iPhone

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 16:10
Passat. I had to conform to the norm.

You are confusing highly paid contractors with generous thrill seekers.

HTH

oracleslave
8th November 2007, 16:11
Passat. I had to conform to the norm.

You are confusing highly paid contractors with generous thrill seekers.

HTH

:rollin:

AtW
8th November 2007, 16:11
DimPrawn's dream car (http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/958-am-i-gay.html).

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:11
You sir are a wind up merchant and I claim my reconditioned iPhone

Come again?

sasguru
8th November 2007, 16:12
I am very seriously considering the Porsche Cayman ....although I only got my license a month ago. Insurance is £4000 odd so just under a couple of weeks work so not so bad.



:yay::laugh
:rollin:

That's got to be Post of the Day!

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:12
DimPrawn's dream car (http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/958-am-i-gay.html).

The Z4 coupe is the other car on my list actually, the slightly cheaper option:

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/2005-BMW-Z4-Coupe-Concept_rear.jpg

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:13
DimPrawn's dream car (http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/958-am-i-gay.html).


Could be worse

http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/977-changed-my-mind-about-daihatsu-copen.html?highlight=copen

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:14
:yay::laugh
:rollin:

That's got to be Post of the Day!

Why?! Am I detached from reality, as I'm missing what I've said which is so crazy.

Remember contract hire is not buying outright, its about £480 per month on a Cayman with a good deal. It's also smarter than outright purchase when you consider depreciation.

AtW
8th November 2007, 16:15
Could be worse

http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/977-changed-my-mind-about-daihatsu-copen.html?highlight=copen

I think Milan sets contractors lowest common car denominator :laugh

sasguru
8th November 2007, 16:15
Could be worse

http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/977-changed-my-mind-about-daihatsu-copen.html?highlight=copen

I bought a Toyota Aygo in the end.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:16
The Z4 coupe is the other car on my list actually, the slightly cheaper option:

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/2005-BMW-Z4-Coupe-Concept_rear.jpg

4k on insurance is nuts, the insurance comapny are basically getting you to underwite yourself. Get something reasonable, earn some NCB then buy a nice car.

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 16:16
Why?! Am I detached from reality, as I'm missing what I've said which is so crazy.

Remember contract hire is not buying outright, its about £480 per month on a Cayman with a good deal. It's also smarter than outright purchase when you consider depreciation.

Are you sure you've read the small print? I.e £10K deposit required, then £480 a month and at the end you can hand it back (and lose your deposit) or buy it (for another £10K on top).

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:18
I bought a Toyota Aygo in the end.

That's almost an anagram of
oo gay boy tat

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:18
4k on insurance is nuts, the insurance comapny are basically getting you to underwite yourself. Get something reasonable, earn some NCB then buy a nice car.

Yes, you are right, that would be the sensible route. But I am trying not to be sensible, my dream car is within reach and I am very tempted to tax myself an extra 2k odd on insurance over a sensible car..

One day the geek shall inherit the earth...

:throw:

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:20
Are you sure you've read the small print? I.e £10K deposit required, then £480 a month and at the end you can hand it back (and lose your deposit) or buy it (for another £10K on top).

It's a 3 month deposit up front I believe, after 2 years the contract ends and you can choose another shiny new car.

All in all I worked it out at 10k for the car and insurance for one year, which I think is reasonable for a Cayman straight from the factory, no?

Contract hire is definitely the way forward in my eyes.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:23
It is with many cars, but a porsche doesn't depreciate like most cars, if it's properly specced anyway. All contract deals on Porsche will be worse than the 2/3 year depreciation hit.

sasguru
8th November 2007, 16:24
That's almost an anagram of
oo gay boy tat

Unlike you my masculinity and identity is not tied to what car I drive.
:laugh :laugh
PS. Have you decided which car you are going to "invest" your life savings on, yet?
£35K will get you something decent I'm sure.
:rollin:

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:25
It is with many cars, but a porsche doesn't depreciate like most cars, if it's properly specced anyway. All contract deals on Porsche will be worse than the 2/3 year depreciation hit.

You're right, German cars generally don't depreciate as much. But that's the advantage to contract hiring them, cars that depreciate quickly cost more to contract hire.

If you bought it, it would cost you more to sell and switch to another brand new car when you have had enough of it I reckon. With contract hire you can order a new car at the end of the contract with a phone call.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:28
I'm saving up for one of these boys, 0-60 3.5 seconds, 200 mph <60k

unbelievable

http://www.trustedlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/nissan-gtr-b.jpg

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 16:29
You're right, German cars generally don't depreciate as much. But that's the advantage to contract hiring them, cars that depreciate quickly cost more to contract hire.

If you bought it, it would cost you more to sell and switch to another brand new car when you have had enough of it I reckon. With contract hire you can order a new car at the end of the contract with a phone call.

Stick the deposit money on a BTL.

Use the £480/month to subsidise the rent.

Sell in 3 yrs time and buy the Caymen outright witht he massive rise in equity.

He who dares Rodders.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:30
I'm saving up for one of these boys, 0-60 3.5 seconds, 200 mph <60k

unbelievable

http://www.trustedlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/nissan-gtr-b.jpg

Pretty nice, goes like the clappers and has Japanese reliability. Can't vouch for the safety factor though, German cars are pretty good for that.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:32
You're right, German cars generally don't depreciate as much. But that's the advantage to contract hiring them, cars that depreciate quickly cost more to contract hire.

If you bought it, it would cost you more to sell and switch to another brand new car when you have had enough of it I reckon. With contract hire you can order a new car at the end of the contract with a phone call.

If you've just started driving then why start with a fairly high performance car?
Your skills won't be up to the amount of power. Hone your skills on something that doesn't matter if you scratch, bump or write it off.

IMHO

sasguru
8th November 2007, 16:32
I'm saving up for one of these boys ...

Note the gay Freudian slip ...

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:33
Stick the deposit money on a BTL.

Use the £480/month to subsidise the rent.

Sell in 3 yrs time and buy the Caymen outright witht he massive rise in equity.

He who dares Rodders.

Your plan is relying on a lot of unknown factors though isn't it? The Cayman will cost me one month's pay not including tax, which isn't too bad when I look at it in man hours. Already have enough stress with my limited company, without getting involved in more paperwork.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:34
If you've just started driving then why start with a fairly high performance car?
Your skills won't be up to the amount of power. Hone your skills on something that doesn't matter if you scratch, bump or write it off.

IMHO

Again, you're right. I have access to a small hatchback that I am going to drive about for a few weeks first until I feel comfortable.

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 16:38
Again, you're right. I have access to a small hatchback that I am going to drive about for a few weeks first until I feel comfortable.

You will end up with a ban from driving or worse end up an organ donor.

Stick to a Passat. They are uber cool.

sasguru
8th November 2007, 16:39
Stick to a Passat. They are uber cool.

Yes especially the grey diesels, like Milan's.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:40
What model/version of Passat are you speaking of?

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:40
Again, you're right. I have access to a small hatchback that I am going to drive about for a few weeks first until I feel comfortable.


I'm half thinking this is a wind up, but why not get something fun but lowish insurance to start with? It might be a slight hairdressers car but the MX5 is a giveaway on PCP and more than enough power for a new driver. In one year the insurance quotes will probably be under 2k for the porsche and you'll be ready for the extra power. If you have an accident that will knock your confidence back for a long time, IMHO >200bhp is too much for a novice driver.

I've had some nippy cars at young ages but have never paid more than £600 a year in insurance. Maybe I'm tight.

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 16:41
What model/version of Passat are you speaking of?


All Passats. But especially old grey ones with Diesel engines and low rent interiors.

HTH

AtW
8th November 2007, 16:42
All Passats. But especially old grey ones with Diesel engines and low rent interiors.

HTH

Quiet. Leather ones are the best because (apparently) it is easier to wipe off blood from them.

oracleslave
8th November 2007, 16:43
Maybe I'm tight.

Sasguru can verify this.

Agree with Baggy's advice though, you should start with something a little less powerful.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:43
I'm half thinking this is a wind up, but why not get something fun but lowish insurance to start with? It might be a slight hairdressers car but the MX5 is a giveaway on PCP and more than enough power for a new driver. In one year the insurance quotes will probably be under 2k for the porsche and you'll be ready for the extra power. If you have an accident that will know your confidence back for a long time, IMHO >200bhp is too much for a novice driver.

I've had some nippy cars at young ages but have never paid more than £600 a year in insurance. Maybe I'm tight.

It's not a joke, honest guv. My sensible option of contract hire was the BMW 3 series diesel coupe 320d ES. £1900 on insurance, £290 a month... But then I am stuck with it for 2 years, and I know I'll just drive to the Porsche garage and stand there with my nose to the window like a Dickensian orphan at Xmas.

But that would be more sensible though.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:50
It's not a joke, honest guv. My sensible option of contract hire was the BMW 3 series diesel coupe 320d ES. £1900 on insurance, £290 a month... But then I am stuck with it for 2 years, and I know I'll just drive to the Porsche garage and stand there with my nose to the window like a Dickensian orphan at Xmas.

But that would be more sensible though.

The BMW would make more sense, or I'd look at a warm hatch like the golf GTdi, something less than 200bhp.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:53
The BMW would make more sense, or I'd look at a warm hatch like the golf GTdi, something less than 200bhp.

Yes, you are the voice of reason. Have to see how I go, watching a few Top Gear's on DAVE each night isn't helping me to be sensible I suppose :nerd

sasguru
8th November 2007, 16:54
I don't understand this obsession with cars. I like a good sporty drive as much as the next man but I wouldn't pay silly money for what are essentially thrills. Remember whatever car you get, after a couple of months the thrill will wear off.
Invest your cash wisely and in a few years you can buy whatever you want for cash and not give a carp. Why throw money into a depreciating asset, unless that money really is play money compared with everything else?

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:56
I have the cash to cover the contract hire and insurance though, and no debts. But take the point.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 16:56
Sensible choice, with more than enough power...

VOLKSWAGEN GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK 2.0 Sport TDI 5dr Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price:
£18,355 Our discounted price just:

£14,995
This car is new and unregistered in Diamond Black. Save £3360 !!

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 16:58
Sensible choice, with more than enough power...

VOLKSWAGEN GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK 2.0 Sport TDI 5dr Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price:
£18,355 Our discounted price just:

£14,995
This car is new and unregistered in Diamond Black. Save £3360 !!

You think that beats a 2007 BMW 320d?

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 17:00
You think that beats a 2007 BMW 320d?

The BMW is a good car but overpriced, remember this is a fun practical car for now with good residuals, in a year or twos time you want the Caymen?

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 17:00
I'd take the 320d of any Golf diesel anyday.

Scrabbly front drive hatch vs a properly setup rear wheel drive car.

However, you will be more common than a Mondeo (or a Passat).

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:03
What do you guys make of these MR2 Ferrari replica's then (can insure them as Ferrari badged 'kit cars' for dirt cheap insurance):

http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/2410/info.php?p=6&pno=0

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:04
Proper photo's:

http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/2410/info.php?p=7&pno=0

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 17:06
What do you guys make of these MR2 Ferrari replica's then (can insure them as Ferrari badged 'kit cars' for dirt cheap insurance):

http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/2410/info.php?p=6&pno=0


Oh Dear ™

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:07
I would never buy one. Was just interested about what you thought.

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 17:07
Proper photo's:

http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/2410/info.php?p=7&pno=0

http://217.68.23.140/image.php?image=http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/cdata/11519/img/11519_418125.jpg&sCaption=Miss%20Newark%20at%20kitcar%20show

Which of you cruel fookers super-glued that girl to that MR2? :eyes

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 17:08
If you're thinking of going down that route then a Lotus elise or better still a VX220 is the best performance v cash v insurance. All the fun can be had a lower speeds, than a more robust car.

maybe the turbo one isn't a good idea though(they all seem to be cat d!)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/274570.htm

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:08
http://217.68.23.140/image.php?image=http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/cdata/11519/img/11519_418125.jpg&sCaption=Miss%20Newark%20at%20kitcar%20show

Which of you cruel fookers super-glued that girl to that MR2? :eyes

She's a prototype of the world's first lifelike human-sized fridge magnet.

oracleslave
8th November 2007, 17:09
What do you guys make of these MR2 Ferrari replica's then (can insure them as Ferrari badged 'kit cars' for dirt cheap insurance):

http://www.mr2kits.gbr.cc/2410/info.php?p=6&pno=0

Why the determination to spend/waste money on wheels like this as your first car? Perhaps you need to temper the excitement of recently obtaining a driving license with some realism?

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 17:10
If you're thinking of going down that route then a Lotus elise or better still a VX220 is the best performance v cash v insurance. All the fun can be had a lower speeds, than a more robust car.

I agree with Baggy again. :confused:

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:10
If you're thinking of going down that route then a Lotus elise or better still a VX220 is the best performance v cash v insurance. All the fun can be had a lower speeds, than a more robust car.



http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/279993.htm

I was looking at the Elise, and read a review of it in the Top Gear handbook (has all their recent reviews of most cars), and it comes with nothing, no airbags, no traction control, suspension which is only effective at high speeds etc.

I though the Elise would be good at first too, till I read that.

gingerjedi
8th November 2007, 17:14
Get a 2001 Civic Type R for about 7k that way you wont lose so much when you wrap it round a tree.

HTH

r0bly0ns
8th November 2007, 17:17
Also, considering the average salary here, what are you driving, Any sports car drivers here?

Ford Focus (seriously), and it's rubbish.

It's a base model as well ,1.6 CL Estate. I bought it a few years back when still a permie. I am paying off debts first then I'm gonna get a BMW 318SE :tongue

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:17
Why the determination to spend/waste money on wheels like this as your first car? Perhaps you need to temper the excitement of recently obtaining a driving license with some realism?

Interesting viewpoint, but why do you think it's unrealistic to not want to drive a heap of scrap as a first car? I know someone who bought a nice car as a first car, and they had no issues.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 17:18
I was looking at the Elise, and read a review of it in the Top Gear handbook (has all their recent reviews of most cars), and it comes with nothing, no airbags, no traction control, suspension which is only effective at high speeds etc.

I though the Elise would be good at first too, till I read that.

These are the reasons why it's fun, feels fast even when you are going slow. You want to learn to drive in a car without driver aids, otherwise when you don't have them and you drive fast in your normal fashion you could crash.
The VX220 has a better engine than the early Elises (current elise uses the Toyota MR2 vvt, apart from the base which uses a camry vvt). The VX has 2.2 litres and alot more torque which is handy in a nippy little point and squirt car.
I would avoid the turbo though, it would outsprint a basic 911 to 60 and you'd probably be visiting your local farmer via a backward spinning manouvre into the hedge. The VX is insurance group 16 from memory, will do 40mpg, and will still be worth 80% of what you paid in a year. For 12k you can get a car wil less than 20k miles.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:20
These are the reasons why it's fun, feels fast even when you are going slow. You want to learn to drive in a car without driver aids, otherwise when you don't have them and you drive fast in your normal fashion you could crash.
The VX220 has a better engine than the early Elises (current elise uses the Toyota MR2 vvt, apart from the base with uses a camry vvt). The VX has 2.2 litres and alot more torque which is habdy in a nippy little point and squirt car.
I would avoid the turbo though, it would outsprint a basic 911 to 60 and you'd probably be visiting your local farmer via a backward spinning manouvre into the hedge.

I agree, that was my logic originally. Although the lack of safety features is slightly worrying.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:22
Indeed.

Buy a 911.

Pedantic.

oracleslave
8th November 2007, 17:23
Interesting viewpoint, but why do you think it's unrealistic to not want to drive a heap of scarp as a first car? I know someone who bought a nice car as a first car, and they had no issues.

I guess my view is similar to what Sasguru said in an earlier post. Basically I like the thrill of driving a fast car as much as the next bloke. However my philosophy with cars as with most things I buy is if I don't have the cash I don't buy it. You are talking about a loan deal whereby you will have nothing to show for your money at the end of it. Whilst Dimprawns suggestion of putting the cash in BTL was in jest there was some sense in it to in my opinion. You also mentioned in another post you thought the cost of house prices in London was high. My view would then be to spend a little money on a reliable car (expense) and put the saved money into something else i.e. reducing a mortgage or an asset/investment of some sort.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 17:24
I agree, that was my logic originally. Although the lack of safety features is slightly worrying.

You don't need to drive it fast, the fun is in the 0-30s, the twisty roads. I can't think of a car that will give as much fun for as little outlay and still makes people go "nice car" rather than "dickhead"

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:25
I guess my view is similar to what Sasguru said in an earlier post. Basically I like the thrill of driving a fast car as much as the next bloke. However my philosophy with cars as with most things I buy is if I don't have the cash I don't buy it. You are talking about a loan deal whereby you will have nothing to show for your money at the end of it. Whilst Dimprawns suggestion of putting the cash in BTL was in jest there was some sense in it to in my opinion. You also mentioned in another post you thought the cost of house prices in London was high. My view would then be to spend a little money on a reliable car (expense) and put the saved money into something else i.e. reducing a mortgage or an asset/investment of some sort.

'If it depreciates lease it, if it appreciates buy it'.

I have no debts whatsoever, not even a penny on credit cards or bank overdraft, so don't look at it as a loan, it is hiring. Contract hire is very popular in the US and does make some financial sense (when talking about new cars).

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:27
You don't need to drive it fast, the fun is in the 0-30s, the twisty roads. I can't think of a car that will give as much fun for as little outlay and still makes people go "nice car" rather than "dickhead"

Good point, I need to brainstorm these choices, draw a SWOT table or something. Good to hear another point of view, the Elise was originally my prime choice, surprisingly don't see many about.

Lotus is a great company/brand too.

oracleslave
8th November 2007, 17:29
'If it depreciates lease it, if it appreciates buy it'.

I have no debts whatsoever, not even a penny on credit cards or bank overdraft, so don't look at it as a loan, it is hiring. Contract hire is very popular in the US and does make some financial sense (when talking about new cars).

Fair enough. Is your house paid for? Is it the dream house? Lets face it if your after your dream car might as well have a dream house as you will spend more time in it than in the car. Kids education fund sorted? Retirement investments all in place? You get my drift. Not saying it's wrong but personally I wouldn't spend too much cash on a first car until all the rest was sorted.

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:32
Fair enough. Is your house paid for? Is it the dream house? Lets face it if your after your dream car might as well have a dream house as you will spend more time in it than in the car. Kids education fund sorted? Retirement investments all in place? You get my drift. Not saying it's wrong but personally I wouldn't spend too much cash on a first car until all the rest was sorted.

No, what you’re saying makes sense. I’m not yet shackled with a family etc., but that’s part of the reason for wanting to get a nice car before I am! (I have not paid off the mortgage though, that is one debt I have I suppose, that’s next on my list).

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 17:32
Good point, I need to brainstorm these choices, draw a SWOT table or something. Good to hear another point of view, the Elise was originally my prime choice, surprisingly don't see many about.

Lotus is a great company/brand too.

It depends how much you care about the badge, the VX is a better car (tried and tested engine from the Vectra el al) unless you get the later Toyota. engined Lotus, the rest (rover engined) have patchy reliability. If I was in your new drving shoes though I'd go for a classless warm hatch. Everyone I know who bought a performance car in the first year of driving smashed it, mind you they were mainly 17-18. You may end up being uninsurable if you write off a 40k car, it matters much more than smashing a 10k one.

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 17:34
Fair enough. Is your house paid for? Is it the dream house? Lets face it if your after your dream car might as well have a dream house as you will spend more time in it than in the car. Kids education fund sorted? Retirement investments all in place? You get my drift. Not saying it's wrong but personally I wouldn't spend too much cash on a first car until all the rest was sorted.


Wise words mate, wise words.

If you have £500/month to spend, buy a cheap fun car outright and put the money into high risk/high return investment.

At the end, you'll still have a car you enjoyed, and hopefully enough money to buy and even better one with the money you've made.

:smokin

Charles Foster Kane
8th November 2007, 17:35
It depends how much you care about the badge, the VX is a better car (tried and tested engine from the Vectra el al) unless you get the later Toyota. engined Lotus, the rest (rover engined) have patchy reliability. If I was in your new drving shoes though I'd go for a classless warm hatch. Everyone I know who bought a performance car in the first year of driving smashed it, mind you they were mainly 17-18.

Yeah, I was looking at the more recent Toyota engined model, the VX220 is a cool car though, I'd forgotten about that when I was looking.

Kind of slipped into obscurity didn't it...

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 17:36
Yeah, I was looking at the more recent Toyota engined model, the VX220 is a cool car though, I'd forgotten about that when I was looking.

Kind of slipped into obscurity didn't it...

I like the Clio V6 255 bhp thing too.

Bagpuss
8th November 2007, 17:37
It probably will become a future classic (the VX), not that many were made
IMHO it will be one of those cars that never falls much below 8k

NickFitz
8th November 2007, 18:31
Why go for a high-performance car when you won't dare drive it faster than the speed limit for two years anyway?

Remember, for the first two years after passing your test, you only have to get six points and your licence is automatically revoked. Not a ban, but revoked. You go back to square one and have to do the theory, hazard awareness and practical tests all over again. (And you can be certain that, on the practical, the examiner will be watching like a hawk for any excuse to fail you.)

You can get those six points from being caught over the speed limit twice; that can be managed on a journey of less than five miles.

I didn't dare go over the limit at all for the first two years after I passed my test; the risk was too great for it to be worthwhile. So just get something that will do 30 in the town, 60 in the country and 70 on the motorway, and save up your money. You'll be a lot safer in a high-performance car after two years of pottering about anyway.

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 18:47
Why go for a high-performance car when you won't dare drive it faster than the speed limit for two years anyway?

Remember, for the first two years after passing your test, you only have to get six points and your licence is automatically revoked. Not a ban, but revoked. You go back to square one and have to do the theory, hazard awareness and practical tests all over again. (And you can be certain that, on the practical, the examiner will be watching like a hawk for any excuse to fail you.)

You can get those six points from being caught over the speed limit twice; that can be managed on a journey of less than five miles.

I didn't dare go over the limit at all for the first two years after I passed my test; the risk was too great for it to be worthwhile. So just get something that will do 30 in the town, 60 in the country and 70 on the motorway, and save up your money. You'll be a lot safer in a high-performance car after two years of pottering about anyway.

Wise words mate, wise words.

Do you want to buy a 2nd hand Passat?

Moscow Mule
8th November 2007, 18:48
Were I you (I was in a similar situation 18 months ago) I would get something you are unlikely to speed in.

After your test, you only get 6 points to play with for the first two years. That's any two from speeding, box junction, jumped lights.

If you hit six points, you have to start from the theory test again.

Edit: What the monkey said /\ /\ /\

DimPrawn
8th November 2007, 18:51
Were I you (I was in a similar situation 18 months ago) I would get something you are unlikely to speed in.

After your test, you only get 6 points to play with for the first two years. That's any two from speeding, box junction, jumped lights.

If you hit six points, you have to start from the theory test again.

IMHO they should do this for all drivers. 6 points and full on test again from scratch (inc theory).

That would ease congestion in a fair and safety focussed way.

Don't tax the poor off the road, remove the bad/unsafe drivers.

PS. I have been driving for 20+ yrs and never had a single point on my licence and never had a single claim on my insurance.

gingerjedi
8th November 2007, 18:54
VX220 is a great car but offers little in the way of protection, why not go the whole hog and get a TVR Tuscan? 380bhp, they weigh bugger all and because they're made of fibreglass when you hit a tree at 160mph the V8 will come straight through and kill you in an instant, no long lingering death with time to ponder this post and how everyone is saying "he wouldn't listen".

HTH

AtW
8th November 2007, 19:00
why not go the whole hog and get a TVR Tuscan?

And how you going to get warranty and spares now that TVR factory gone bust thanks to bright management of my fellow compatriot?

gingerjedi
8th November 2007, 19:09
And how you going to get warranty and spares now that TVR factory gone bust thanks to bright management of my fellow compatriot?

I wouldn't worry too much... it wouldn't be on the road for long.

s2budd
8th November 2007, 19:17
Sorry mate but £4k for insurance and then £500 odd to rent your first car is just mad. Buy something for £4k max and then just pot about getting used to driving about and save the rest of your money.

However, saying that, spending my entire "life's" savings when I was about 20 on a flashy motor and then realising what a heap of junk and an utter money pit it was for the next four years was probably the best financial lesson that I've ever had.

gingerjedi
8th November 2007, 19:33
Sod the money he's a contractor, I'm more shocked that he wants a Porsche with only 1 months driving experience.

Why not get a few track days in and learn how to drive a fast car? I've done the single seater here (http://www.castlecombecircuit.co.uk/drivingex_index.htm), a few pirouettes across the grass at 90mph helps you learn fast!

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 09:56
Sod the money he's a contractor, I'm more shocked that he wants a Porsche with only 1 months driving experience.


Yeah, that's my main concern. I am quite a vigilant driver (I got the strictest examiner at the test centre on my test apparently, and only got 2 minors) but I agree it might be a bit much.

I think I'm decided on an Elise now (not a turbo), it's nice and small, lets you feel the road beneath you, and happens to not look like an upside down bath, which is nice.

sasguru
9th November 2007, 09:59
Yeah, that's my main concern. I am quite a vigilant driver (I got the strictest examiner at the test centre on my test apparently, and only got 2 minors) but I agree it might be a bit much.

.

And what GCSEs did you do? :laugh

oracleslave
9th November 2007, 10:02
If he buys the right car, such as a 911, he won't need to sort the rest of that out... :D

Ahh so you also subscribe to the Porsche > Tree > Nothing but a fond memory theory. :D

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:06
Indeed.

Just because a car is capable of going very fast, doesn't mean you will necessarily drive it at it's top speed.

Why would a sports car going at 30MPH, be likely to hit a tree?

:spank:

gingerjedi
9th November 2007, 10:07
Yeah, that's my main concern. I am quite a vigilant driver (I got the strictest examiner at the test centre on my test apparently, and only got 2 minors) but I agree it might be a bit much.

I think I'm decided on an Elise now (not a turbo), it's nice and small, lets you feel the road beneath you, and happens to not look like an upside down bath, which is nice.

The Elise is a great car but have you actually sat in one? When I was looking it was on my list but when I sat in one and realised how low down and vulnerable I would be I struck it off, my main reason was I have to go on the motorway every day and didn't fancy sitting lower than a lorries centre caps in a car made primarily of fibreglass, especially in winter with poor visibility.

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:11
The Elise is a great car but have you actually sat in one? When I was looking it was on my list but when I sat in one and realised how low down and vulnerable I would be I struck it off, my main reason was I have to go on the motorway every day and didn't fancy sitting lower than a lorries centre caps in a car made primarily of fibreglass, especially in winter with poor visibility.

I haven't driven one, no. But this was a concern, I kind of assume the experience would be like driving one of the older mini's, on steroids (not like a Sinclair C5 hopefully).

On the plus side, I guess going 30MPH feels very fast in an Elise as you are so low, so you don't really need to speed and are more aware of how fast you're going.

Bear
9th November 2007, 10:11
Just because a car is capable of going very fast, doesn't mean you will necessarily drive it at it's top speed.

Why would a sports car going at 30MPH, be likely to hit a tree?

:spank:

If you go for the Elise - then it will be when you are going round a tight corner on a country road with nothing else around.

You'll be half way round the corner, realise that 35mph was too quick for the corner - your natural reaction will be to dab the breaks.

Your inexperience will tell.

You'll hit the tree backwards at 30mph.

:eek:

ookook
9th November 2007, 10:11
I'd agree with GingerJedi - Civic Type R is more than enough power for someone new to driving, its cheapish and well built and practical. Plus its loads of fun, especially over the Snake pass.

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:13
The Elise is a great car but have you actually sat in one? When I was looking it was on my list but when I sat in one and realised how low down and vulnerable I would be I struck it off, my main reason was I have to go on the motorway every day and didn't fancy sitting lower than a lorries centre caps in a car made primarily of fibreglass, especially in winter with poor visibility.

Oh, I suppose on the lorry side of things, you could always get in in ultra bright yellow to make sure they see you.

I like the Top Gear review of it, they say something along the lines of, there are no safety features in the Elise as Lotus are banking on you being able to escape any scrapes in the Elise thanks to it's speed and acceleration. :laugh

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 10:13
Just because a car is capable of going very fast, doesn't mean you will necessarily drive it at it's top speed.

Why would a sports car going at 30MPH, be likely to hit a tree?

:spank:

You should be OK with an Elise if you drive it properly, progressively, not violently. It's only about 140bhp, but as power to weight it will feel more.
It's not a practical car in any way though, the boot will fit a small sports bag and that's it. As a first car I'd go for one a couple of years old, then you won't feel so bad when you bump and scrape it. Plus they make great track day cars.

Jedi is right, if you need to do lots of motorway driving then chose something else

I'll drop another car into the equation, call it the sensible Elise. Toyota MR2 roadster, the engine was used in the Elise, it feels like a go kart like the Elise, yet it has airbags etc. 0-30 is faster than a 2.7 Porsche Boxster

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:14
I'd agree with GingerJedi - Civic Type R is more than enough power for someone new to driving, its cheapish and well built and practical. Plus its loads of fun, especially over the Snake pass.

May as well get a girlfriend named Donna, a council flat in Hackney and a Kappa tracksuit while I'm at it.

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:15
You should be OK with an Elise if you drive it properly, progressively, not violently. It's only about 140bhp, but as power to weight it will feel more.
It's not a practical car in any way though, the boot will fit a small sports bag and that's it. As a first car I'd go for one a couple of years old, then you won't feel so bad when you bump and scarpe it. Plus they make great track day cars.

Yeah, I read that. Apparently if you put a bag of shopping in their your eggs will be cooked by the engine by the time you get home :laugh

gingerjedi
9th November 2007, 10:15
Just because a car is capable of going very fast, doesn't mean you will necessarily drive it at it's top speed.

Why would a sports car going at 30MPH, be likely to hit a tree?

:spank:

Why marry Claudia Schiffer and only have a quick fondle?

No matter what you say, as a man the temptation will be too much and you will floor it every now and then. :devil

sasguru
9th November 2007, 10:19
Oi Mr Kane. Don't be an arse and throw your money down the pan. As a couple of posters have suggested get a Civic Type R. More bangs for the buck than most, reliable and well built - I've had one, I know.

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:22
You should be OK with an Elise if you drive it properly, progressively, not violently. It's only about 140bhp, but as power to weight it will feel more.
It's not a practical car in any way though, the boot will fit a small sports bag and that's it. As a first car I'd go for one a couple of years old, then you won't feel so bad when you bump and scarpe it. Plus they make great track day cars.

Jedi is right, if you need to do lots of motorway driving then chose something else

I'll drop another car into the equation, call it the sensible Elise. Toyota MR2 roadster, the engine was used in the Elise, it feels like a go kart like the Elise, yet it has airbags etc. 0-30 is faster than a 2.7 Porsche Boxster

Bagpuss, do you know what year Elise comes with the new Toyota engine? Of course, no-one selling an Elise lists the engine type :nerd

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 10:22
While it's a great car a civic type R is more dangerous for a new driver than an Elise. This is because you need to thrash it to get the performance, thrashing cars is when new drivers crash. Plus it does bounce around on the bumps quite a bit.

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:23
Oi Mr Kane. Don't be an arse and throw your money down the pan. As a couple of posters have suggested get a Civic Type R. More bangs for the buck than most, reliable and well built - I've had one, I know.

If I'm going the Jap route, surely something like a Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec would be pretty nice (always liked it in Gran Turismo anyway). Or maybe a Honda NSX, no, a bit fast maybe :sick

gingerjedi
9th November 2007, 10:24
May as well get a girlfriend named Donna, a council flat in Hackney and a Kappa tracksuit while I'm at it.

Ooh thats a bit cutting, so if it cost 35k it would be on your list but as its affordable and popular (for very good reason) it must be a bit 'chav'?

Get a 911 and make sure its the Turbo version.

HTH

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 10:25
Bagpuss, do you know what year Elise comes with the new Toyota engine? Of course, no-one selling an Elise lists the engine type :nerd

i think it's denoted by the model the 111r or something like that

oracleslave
9th November 2007, 10:26
Get a 911 and make sure its the Turbo version.

HTH

:rollin:

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:26
i think it's denoted by the model the 111r or something like that

Ah, cool, that makes sense. Will have to check that out, thanks.

sasguru
9th November 2007, 10:30
This is a great windup! And trust Baggy to fall for it completely :laugh

and if its not, Mr kane is not very bright

gingerjedi
9th November 2007, 10:31
Charles Foster Kane, you are the reincarnation of James Dean and I claim my $10.55

sasguru
9th November 2007, 10:32
Charles Foster Kane, you are the reincarnation of James Dean and I claim my $10.55


Yes, not long for this world, is he?

Lockhouse
9th November 2007, 10:33
If I'm going the Jap route, surely something like a Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec would be pretty nice (always liked it in Gran Turismo anyway). Or maybe a Honda NSX, no, a bit fast maybe :sick

I'm selling my 1993 Twin Turbo Supra Aero (the targa one) for 10Kish at the moment. If you're interested PM me and I'll send you the link.

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 10:35
Ah, cool, that makes sense. Will have to check that out, thanks.

From Parkers..

The second-generation Elise resembles a mini-supercar. Fly-weight gives high performance without big power, while higher spec versions now offer a bit more comfort and performance, but at a cost that becomes harder to justify since the standard model is such fun. It's sparsely spec'd, but that is the whole point. The high performance 111R added ABS brakes, a Toyota engine and gearbox, plus a few luxuries without compromising the exhilarating experience. S model launched from mid-2006 replaced the entry level Rover engine with a Toyota engine and made ABS brakes standard across the range and traction control an option


...
Remember the S model isn't the MR2 engine, it's from the corolla (but still more than good enough). Apparently the 111r is 180 bhp (the mr2 had originally had 140bhp) , they must have made a more powerful version. In that car 120bhp is more than enough!

sasguru
9th November 2007, 10:35
I'm selling my 1993 Twin Turbo Supra Aero (the targa one) for 10Kish at the moment. If you're interested PM me and I'll send you the link.

:tantrum:
You're supposed to help the naive, gullible youth, not exploit him for your own interests.

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 10:37
I could sell him my s2000, but I don't want to be responsible for his death

sasguru
9th November 2007, 10:50
Yes I missed that one:laugh

Mr Kane, either you're a brilliant wind-up merchant or a fool. Which is it?

someone has my name
9th November 2007, 10:55
I just bought a 1.25 10yr old Fiesta for bumming around in...
A Proper contractors car... and it cost me about the same amount of money that you will spend a week on filling up your Porche gayman..
:yay::yay::yay:

sasguru
9th November 2007, 10:56
I just bought a 1.25 10yr old Fiesta for bumming around in...
A Proper contractors car... and it cost me about the same amount of money that you will spend a week on filling up your Porche gayman..
:yay::yay::yay:

Now here's a proper contractor - destined to be wealthy.

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 10:57
This is a great windup! And trust Baggy to fall for it completely :laugh

and if its not, Mr kane is not very bright



see page one



Now here's a proper contractor - destined to be wealthy.
If the game is to accumulate as much as possible and leave it to your children

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 10:58
Yes I missed that one:laugh

Mr Kane, either you're a brilliant wind-up merchant or a fool. Which is it?

Wind-up merchant? I have better things to do than waste my own, and other peoples time.

Wouldn't be much of a wind-up would it really?

Why the binary option of wind-up merchant or fool. How about discerning buyer seeking advice from fellow motoring enthusiasts.

oracleslave
9th November 2007, 11:01
discerning buyer seeking advice .

:laugh

Bagpuss
9th November 2007, 11:01
You're only wasting my clients time!

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 11:01
"Remember folks, to drive carefully at all times"...

:rollin:

Sas and Zeist, you guys are truly bizzare. You seem to find hilarity in the mundane.

NickFitz
9th November 2007, 11:01
I could sell him my s2000, but I don't want to be responsible for his death

I could sell him my Ford Orion; it's so old it's legally allowed to get a licence and drive itself :D

(Far too good a car to get rid of, though.)

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 11:04
Sas and Zeist, you've won me over, there's a great deal on a Robin Reliant on autotrader, should be sensible enough, but I'll have to go easy on the corners...

:nerd

sasguru
9th November 2007, 11:04
Sas and Zeist, you guys are truly bizzare. You seem to find hilarity in the mundane.

No we're older and experienced and laughing at the folly of youth.

DodgyAgent
9th November 2007, 11:04
I just bought a 1.25 10yr old Fiesta for bumming around in...
A Proper contractors car... and it cost me about the same amount of money that you will spend a week on filling up your Porche gayman..
:yay::yay::yay:

And I live in a one bed council flat with my wife, nanny and six kids and it costs me the same amount of money to pay the rent as you spend on your pornband connection :yay::yay:

Charles Foster Kane
9th November 2007, 11:07
No we're older and experienced and laughing at the folly of youth.

Ah, I see, I am not worthy of your anecdotes, oh wise and learned master. Pardon my insolence, for it is merely the folly of youth.

Zorba
9th November 2007, 11:08
Yes especially the grey diesels, like Milan's.

Oi! Nowt wrong wi'at.

sasguru
9th November 2007, 11:10
Ah, I see, I am not worthy of your anecdotes, oh wise and learned master. Pardon my insolence, for it is merely the folly of youth.

You are rearning, gwasshopper ....:wink

hyperD
9th November 2007, 16:07
VX220 is a great car but offers little in the way of protection, why not go the whole hog and get a TVR Tuscan? 380bhp, they weigh bugger all and because they're made of fibreglass when you hit a tree at 160mph the V8 will come straight through and kill you in an instant, no long lingering death with time to ponder this post and how everyone is saying "he wouldn't listen".

HTH

Straight 6, not V8. Fibreglass does absorb a fair amount of energy as it disintegrates.

hyperD
9th November 2007, 16:09
And how you going to get warranty and spares now that TVR factory gone bust thanks to bright management of my fellow compatriot?

Warranties were never worth pursuing in the first place but plenty of spares available and some companies are actually building better components as well - good market for it as some are finding out.