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Troll
13th November 2007, 18:51
More migrant workers may have to be allowed into Britain in order for new stadiums to be built in time for the London Olympics in 2012, it has emerged.

The suggestion, which undercuts ministers' promises to curb immigration from outside the European Union, was made by, David Metcalf, the Government's own advisor on migration policy.
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The Migration Advisory Committee suggested it may be necessary to relax rules restricting the entry of unskilled labourers from outside the EU.

"You're going to need a lot of construction workers for the Olympics," Mr Metcalf told Channel Four News.

"It is possible that we can't get enough workers from the British labour force and the EU and therefore you will need workers from outside the EU and the Government may ask us to look at it."

DimPrawn
13th November 2007, 19:09
Yep, the more the better.

Troll
13th November 2007, 19:11
fill yer boots!!

AtW
13th November 2007, 19:20
Ok, here is real life example: in the local park where I feed my squirrels as well as bird, there is a pond with ducks, geese etc.

About couple of months ago it got surrounded by fence saying "DANGER! DEEP SILT!", so basically it needed to be cleaned, work paid by council apparently to the tune of £40k.

There is a notice there that this work will take 6 (!) months.

All the builders are British - I chatted with them. They appear to work very irregularly, I know because I am there everyday at 2-3pm so I can see if they are on site or not, and how they work.

The work takes so long that almost all birds gone away, the builders cut down a few big trees showing complete disregard for birds who nested on one small island on the pond.

In my view this pond could have been cleaned up in a week using unemployed people with shovels who should be given simple choice - either they do community work like this or they lose their benefits.

Construction industry around London is rubbing its hands with glee doing about nothing right now - they know pretty well that the date for Olympics is fixed and the less they do now for regular pay means the more overtime and overbudget they will be able to charge near the end. It's obvious innit?

2uk
13th November 2007, 19:37
Construction industry around London is rubbing its hands with glee doing about nothing right now - they know pretty well that the date for Olympics is fixed and the less they do now for regular pay means the more overtime and overbudget they will be able to charge near the end. It's obvious innit?

Very stupid actually. Do we rub our hands doing nothing waiting for MS to release Windows 2012 knowing that there will be alot of work to do once it is coming ? Do yout think low paid workers are not getting anything that comes along ? More likely the British PMs are not doing their work.

So what happened in System Shock , did you beat that FPShooter ?

2uk
13th November 2007, 19:39
More migrant workers may have to be allowed into Britain in order for new stadiums to be built in time for the London Olympics in 2012, it has emerged.

The suggestion, which undercuts ministers' promises to curb immigration from outside the European Union, was made by, David Metcalf, the Government's own advisor on migration policy.
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The Migration Advisory Committee suggested it may be necessary to relax rules restricting the entry of unskilled labourers from outside the EU.

"You're going to need a lot of construction workers for the Olympics," Mr Metcalf told Channel Four News.

"It is possible that we can't get enough workers from the British labour force and the EU and therefore you will need workers from outside the EU and the Government may ask us to look at it."


Come on are you a man or what ? Get the shovel and dig some holes !!

AtW
13th November 2007, 19:39
Do we rub our hands doing nothing waiting for MS to release Windows 2012 knowing that there will be alot of work to do once it is coming?

Microsoft releases are not fixed in time, a better example would be Y2k but when time was fixed just like Olympics and contractors made a killing back then because the industry had no choice. Good for you? But screwes everyone else, construction industry just doing it for a lot more people than IT contractors, so I give you that you are not the worst kind out there.

I finished System Shock without cheats :tongue

DimPrawn
13th November 2007, 19:40
Ok, here is real life example: in the local park where I feed my squirrels as well as bird, there is a pond with ducks, geese etc.

About couple of months ago it got surrounded by fence saying "DANGER! DEEP SILT!", so basically it needed to be cleaned, work paid by council apparently to the tune of £40k.

There is a notice there that this work will take 6 (!) months.

All the builders are British - I chatted with them. They appear to work very irregularly, I know because I am there everyday at 2-3pm so I can see if they are on site or not, and how they work.

The work takes so long that almost all birds gone away, the builders cut down a few big trees showing complete disregard for birds who nested on one small island on the pond.

In my view this pond could have been cleaned up in a week using unemployed people with shovels who should be given simple choice - either they do community work like this or they lose their benefits.

Construction industry around London is rubbing its hands with glee doing about nothing right now - they know pretty well that the date for Olympics is fixed and the less they do now for regular pay means the more overtime and overbudget they will be able to charge near the end. It's obvious innit?


Where do you work again AtW?

:rollin:

AtW
13th November 2007, 19:47
Where do you work again AtW?

:rollin:

But I am employed and don't claim benefits.

Actually I would not mind to put some free time into helping make park better, but rumour has it that some council members in Brum are bent and take bribes.

Maybe I will become a Mayor of Brum one day :eyes

DimPrawn
13th November 2007, 19:50
But I am employed and don't claim benefits.

Actually I would not mind to put some free time into helping make park better, but rumour has it that some council members in Brum are bent and take bribes.

Maybe I will become a Mayor of Brum one day :eyes

Why don't you become a councillor?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1181684

AtW
13th November 2007, 19:53
Why don't you become a councillor?

Maybe next year :tongue

threaded
13th November 2007, 20:10
But I am employed and don't claim benefits.

Actually I would not mind to put some free time into helping make park better, but rumour has it that some council members in Brum are bent and take bribes.

Maybe I will become a Mayor of Brum one day :eyes

You don't say. :D

Do a google for 'Donnygate'. When we meet up one day I can tell you stories that makes the Russian mafia look like badly behaved children...:devil

2uk
13th November 2007, 20:17
You don't say. :D

Do a google for 'Donnygate'. When we meet up one day I can tell you stories that makes the Russian mafia look like badly behaved children...:devil

Heard recently that In Russia there is a new dollar millionaire each 30 minutes or so. Not sue how true....

AtW
13th November 2007, 20:33
Heard recently that In Russia there is a new dollar millionaire each 30 minutes or so. Not sue how true....

Killed each 30 minutes? Probably :laugh

sasguru
13th November 2007, 21:23
We certainly need more migrants to replace non-imaginative people like Troll. After all we're supposed to be a knowledge economy and need more creative people. Someone, like Troll, with such an admirable single-issue concentration and focus, but not much brain, would probably be happier assembling cars in a factory in China.
I propose we set up a migrant exhange program.:laugh

Troll
13th November 2007, 21:26
spittle...bile...usual pointless carpworthless dickwad
HTH

sasguru
13th November 2007, 21:29
worthless dickwad
HTH

You said that before several times. Can't even be creative with your insults, thus proving my point. :laugh

Troll
13th November 2007, 21:33
more tulipe 'cos I'm too thick to be original... irony...cretin blah blah retard blah blah ... these are my big words...blah blahdiddums dickwad

sasguru
13th November 2007, 21:37
diddums dickwad

Get out from your under your bridge, get a shave etc. You might even find a girlfriend, get a life - you know that sort of thang.

Peace and love :cool3::wave:

Troll
13th November 2007, 21:41
blah blah blah
...**** you ******

lilelvis2000
13th November 2007, 21:52
You know you're in the UK when it takes four guys to take a picture of a hole. One to watch for trains. One to open the cover. One to "supervise" and the one guy who actually takes the photo and notes. I bet in Poland this would only take one guy.

Get this, It has taken the best part of three months to add a short slip road onto a road in Bolton. Three months!! and its only about 60 metres long.

Why is when you pass roadworks there's only one or two guys actually working - when there is someone working that is.

Would I rather get my garage extension done by immigrants - yes. It would get done fast and with quality and would not cost a fortune.

AtW
13th November 2007, 22:17
Construction industry is a complete rip-off in the UK.

Clippy
13th November 2007, 22:18
Troll, you really are a one trick pony.

Change the record sunshine.

Your obsessed man.

2uk
13th November 2007, 22:24
You know you're in the UK when it takes four guys to take a picture of a hole. One to watch for trains. One to open the cover. One to "supervise" and the one guy who actually takes the photo and notes. I bet in Poland this would only take one guy.

Get this, It has taken the best part of three months to add a short slip road onto a road in Bolton. Three months!! and its only about 60 metres long.

Why is when you pass roadworks there's only one or two guys actually working - when there is someone working that is.

Would I rather get my garage extension done by immigrants - yes. It would get done fast and with quality and would not cost a fortune.

Can you raise your skirt ? :p

Diver
14th November 2007, 00:33
Construction industry is a complete rip-off in the UK.

The staff in the construction and demolition side of my business are all CSCS/CITB trained and take great pride in their work.
Unfortunately at a cost of £900 for each training board module it is expensive for them to gain the qualifications required in todays industry. Especially when foreign nationals without the required British qualifications (and the expense) are taking their jobs.
How many polish plumbers are working out their without Corgi, how many foreign electricians who are not NIC/EIC Registered/Qualified, who get employment over British tradesmen because of a loophole that allows companies to employ Foreign nationals/Immigrants to carry out work that would get them prosecuted if they employed an unqualified/unregistered Brit to do it for them.

AtW
14th November 2007, 01:06
The staff in the construction and demolition side of my business are all CSCS/CITB trained and take great pride in their work.

Maybe.

I look at guys who work on removing silt from that very small pond in local park, and I say they work very lightly and 6 months to do the job is a ridiculous amount of time.

I see a couple non-native British workers working on a house on my street and I see them every day working like heck - now that's good attitude and I am prepared to bet they are a lot cheaper.

Frankly, we are not talking here about nuclear science where qualification is essential, this is not engineering of the house, ffs, you don't need to be a genius to do these things and frankly they charge so much that they should do perfect job super fast.

Diver
14th November 2007, 02:54
A few results of quickly and cheaply done work by unqualified so called tradesmen...

A garage extension single story, cavity trays not installed correctly. two weeks to cut out and reinstall, make good the water damage to the internal walls £5.600

Wrong sized steel lintel installed over new entrance to three story building. three weeks and £17,000 to replace and repair the structural damage caused to the front elevation.

Internal concrete floors laid to replace existing timber floors. compacted hardcore not compacted. sand blinding not laid - result = hardcore/rubble penetrated DP Membrane causing damp to rise through the floor. we had to break out the new floor and re-lay £2,400

These jobs were carried out by building companies using cheap unqualified labor.

We got called in to repair or replace their shoddy work, I make money yes, but it annoys me when I have to chase work and cut my prices to compete with cowboys and foreigners.

Take the garage for example: I would have made more money if I had done the full build, I would have been giving employment to qualified tradesmen, and the house owner would not have had to fork out an extra £5,600 for unnecessary work. he would have paid £2,500 approx more for us to do the complete job and he would have had a guarantee from a Federation member with full insurance.

Think about that when you need work done.

By the way, contracted civils and building work is usually carried out as priced work not day rate. civils usually have a time/penalty clause, and it is the contractor that loses out if he goes over time. We quite often have to pay or rather lodge a considerable bond on large or critical contracts, we operate under a CDM and have an appointed project supervisor.

A few years ago we dredged a pond near Cardiff airport, Fonmon pond, it took us a few weeks, most of it standing around because we had to wait for the silt to settle out of suspension so that the waste company could take silt away not muddy water, it must have really annoyed people to see my men standing around chatting, but the waiting times were priced into the job.

lilelvis2000
14th November 2007, 11:17
For every good job by qualified people, I'm sure there is at least one bad (or slow) job by qualified people. The impression the public has is that the skilled trades (electrica, plumb, gas, construction) are slow, pricey and of poor quality. Watch rogue trader sometime - you'll sh*t your pants.

I must agree that greedy new home builders do make poor quality homes (in general) . They must have somehow priced in the repairs into their profit estimates. Presumably these are the ones hiring unqualified labour. Even a country like Canada has tests on foriegn qualified people to bring them up to spec. They can't work without a card certifing that they are qualified. I find it hard to believe that the UK does not have same? So if you know a company is hiring illegally - have you informed the authorities?

AtW
14th November 2007, 12:03
A few results of quickly and cheaply done work by unqualified so called tradesmen...

Feedback from home owners seem to suggest that immigrants do the job pretty well and cheap too. Let's not forget here that these basic construction things (we are not talking about design of tunnel under the English Channel) are not exactly rocket science, even Jesus was allegedly a carpenter, and this was (allegedly) almost 2000 years ago.





A garage extension single story, cavity trays not installed correctly. two weeks to cut out and reinstall, make good the water damage to the internal walls £5.600

Wrong sized steel lintel installed over new entrance to three story building. three weeks and £17,000 to replace and repair the structural damage caused to the front elevation.

You are quoting ridiculous damage figures and you don't even appreciate that this is exactly the point - the quotes that you got are RIP OFFS.

Any work done should certainly be insured, I am not suggesting to deal with any guy who claims to be a construction worker.

It is very good that new EU states now appeared and people from there are willing to take their chances to help break local monopolies that strangle markets - IMO people do DIY in this country not because they love it, but because the alternative is so expensive that you might as well learn how to do it.

hyperD
14th November 2007, 14:37
For every good job by qualified people, I'm sure there is at least one bad (or slow) job by qualified people.

No, after spending several decades employing these types, I can guarantee you that that the trades are saturated with work shy, scamming, lazy, greedy, thick, lying, deceitful, useless, poor customer service morons.

Shoehorning in 600,000 immigrants does not change this stat.

BrilloPad
14th November 2007, 14:48
No, after spending several decades employing these types, I can guarantee you that that the trades are saturated with work shy, scamming, lazy, greedy, thick, lying, deceitful, useless, poor customer service morons.

Dont mix your words - tell us what you really think

Diver
14th November 2007, 17:05
You are quoting ridiculous damage figures and you don't even appreciate that this is exactly the point - the quotes that you got are RIP OFFS.

Incorrectly installed cavity trays resulted in rain water entering the cavity causing the render and plaster to blow to the wall adjacent to the garage. This required hacking of the walls re-rendering and plastering. first the new fitted kitchen had to be removed to gain access to the walls, fitted carpets removed, electrics disconnected etc. then all had to be returned as was. the lead flashing to the garage roof had to be ripped out, the brickwork cut out in one meter sections to remove the cavity trays, new installed and re-bricked and pointed after re-installing new lead-work.

The incorrectly installed lintel resulted in the front elevation of the stone building fracturing.
The front elevation had to be jacked and shored before repairs could be carried out to the outer face-work, New lintels installed, new D/G Doors fitted, windows (6) removed and reset. internal floors taken up and reinstalled. ceilings repaired, inner walls (also cracked) repaired. and then the whole lot redecorated.

Where's the rip off, two teams worked on two 10 hour shifts to get the work done quickly, so that the business could re-open.

AtW
14th November 2007, 17:08
Where's the rip off, two teams worked on two 10 hour shifts to get the work done quickly, so that the business could re-open.

I am sure they worked on 10 hour shifts because they got paid arm and a leg for it.

Those bad foreign workers who do crap jobs will lose their jobs very quickly, unlike locals they can't afford a mistake and lets be clear here - there are plenty of cowboy construction workers in the UK who do very crap jobs.

If hired any builder for any serious work I'd ask for written contracts which would clearly state that they would be responsible for any bad work and damages that follow - I'd look for insurance covering all this.

lilelvis2000
14th November 2007, 17:10
And this was done by immgrant ... or english workers?

Diver
14th November 2007, 17:13
I am sure they worked on 10 hour shifts because they got paid arm and a leg for it.

Those bad foreign workers who do carp jobs will lose their jobs very quickly, unlike locals they can't afford a mistake and lets be clear here - there are plenty of cowboy construction workers in the UK who do very carp jobs.

If hired any builder for any serious work I'd ask for written contracts which would clearly state that they would be responsible for any bad work and damages that follow - I'd look for insurance covering all this.

Exactly my point. the backstreet builders are the ones that are cheapest, use cheap unqualified labor and don't have insurance. their guarantee's are good right up until they are paid in full. They don't have to answer to the federation of master builders because they aren't members.

AtW
14th November 2007, 17:18
They don't have to answer to the federation of master builders because they aren't members.

Sounds like an illegal cartel to me just like Law Society.

The matter of fact is that the price of building work is so high in the UK that people will take their chances. And it seems that in most cases they win rather than lose. Perhaps using Polish workers to deal with nuclear reactors is not a wise idea, but getting them to do patio might be a good gamble.

In my locality I see plenty of houses being improved - most of workers doing hard stuff seem clearly foreign.