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(Permie noob) Getting first contract and dealing with agents.

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    (Permie noob) Getting first contract and dealing with agents.

    I'm currently a permie looking to get my first contract. I think I'm in a fairly good position to start, no real financial or personal commitments, wiling to move anywhere and have current DV clearence. I have about 3.5 yrs Java/J2EE experience.

    I haven't quit my permie job yet. My employer requires 4 weeks notice, but I can shorten this with some leave. I'm only looking for jobs which require DV clearance and my understanding is that clients with this kind of vacancy are usually willing to wait a bit longer. My plan is to resign as soon as I get my first interview. If it goes pear shaped, I've enough savings to see me through 2 months and I can always go and stay with my parents for while.

    I put my CV in jobsite at about 1.30am Thursday. Phone started ringing at 8.00am was taking calls from various agents for about half an hour. I got another bunch of calls during the day and another one yesterday, but the jobs are starting to repeat. I've actually lost track of exactly where my CV has gone now. I was a bit taken by surprise when I started getting all these calls and didn't always have a pen handy . I had no idea that agencies follow these things up so aggressively!

    I was wondering what the next step is. I've seen some advice suggesting that I chase up some of the calls. One of the agencies is local; would it be worth popping in to their office?

    I can't figure a lot of these agents out. Most of them were up beat. I've been setting my rate at about £400, some of the agents seemed eager for me to bump it up a bit. One agent told me that he didn't rate my chances of getting any contract work and forwarded me a bunch of permie roles.

    So far I've gotten an idea of some of the don'ts with agents:
    Don't give them references,
    Don't ask 'what do YOU think my rate should be?'.
    Don't tell them what other agencies you've been talking to.
    Don't tell them about other positions you've been put forward for.

    Anything else I should watch out for?

    #2
    Double that rate! You're cheaper than the Indians in the donut! Jeez, some people!

    There're a few big projects in the offing at the moment, meaning they're having a devil of a time resourcing DVed peeps. Which explains why the pimps are all over you.

    For cleared jobs it's not quite the same with references. I always give them the name of this anal retentive type, who enjoys talking to pimps (I think they're the only people who will talk to him, and that's 'cause they're getting paid for it)
    Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
    threadeds website, and here's my blog.

    Comment


      #3
      ok,

      im in a very good mood this morning and so before the others wake up and begin the abuse (thats what General is for, maybe best to post serious questions in Business/Contracts) here's a few free tips..

      Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
      My plan is to resign as soon as I get my first interview.
      no no and thrice no. Interview does not equal job. If you want to play things safe then wait until you are offered a contract. Agents know that permie's to contractors have notice to work, they are usually more than happy to accomodate that, from their perspective you are effectively saying "if you wait the 4 weeks minus holiday notice from the date i get the contract there's a chance im going to be with you for a long while, if you dont wait, you gain nothing", agents need money the same as everyone else and so they will be happy to wait assuming your up to the role.

      Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
      I put my CV in jobsite at about 1.30am Thursday. Phone started ringing at 8.00am was taking calls from various agents for about half an hour.
      Classic Shark (sorry agent) behavior, it's their job to find fresh meat.

      Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
      but the jobs are starting to repeat.
      that tells you how much work there is out there then, so you can set your rate accordingly, i.e lots of work, lots of agents calling, its a fair assumption there are not many candidates floating around OR the contract has something serious wrong that others wont touch. if there are no calls then there's no work around.

      Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
      I've actually lost track of exactly where my CV has gone now. I was a bit taken by surprise when I started getting all these calls and didn't always have a pen handy . I had no idea that agencies follow these things up so aggressively
      lesson 1 learned, buy a f###ing pen or tell the agent to call back later. Look at it from an employers point of view, he has a position he wants filling and some idiotic feckwit has sent his cv in 12 times, well if the idiot cant even manage his own CV, why would I want him looking after my prize IT system. Buy a pen, open excel, make yourself a CV/Agent spreadsheet, in 1 yrs time on contract number 2,3 etc. you want to know which version of your cv mr gel spray has, its your companies reputation and if it ends at 2007 then it doesnt look good on you.

      If you think it will benefit your company by face to face relations with agents then do it, it was 2 years before I met my agent so it's not like being permie, your judged on your reputation and your skills, if your carp then your gone on day 1 or as soon as you mess up.

      Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
      I can't figure a lot of these agents out. Most of them were up beat. I've been setting my rate at about £400, some of the agents seemed eager for me to bump it up a bit. One agent told me that he didn't rate my chances of getting any contract work and forwarded me a bunch of permie roles.
      Sorry I dont know your field of work and so have no idea of what your rate should be. Do your research, thats what google is for.
      The agents who say you should go permie are simply saying "i have no contract roles, i do however have a few permie roles that i'd like to pimp you for", if agents said jump off a cliff would you?

      Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
      So far I've gotten an idea of some of the don'ts with agents:
      Don't give them references,
      Don't ask 'what do YOU think my rate should be?'.
      Don't tell them what other agencies you've been talking to.
      Don't tell them about other positions you've been put forward for.

      Anything else I should watch out for?
      Are you SERIOUS??? 'what do YOU think my rate should be?' you do understand the basics of agents?, the cheaper rate you accept the more likely mr spikey hair gets to buying the M5 he's got his eye on.

      Other advice:
      - buy a pen
      - dont trust anything an agent says, however, understand that the agent is likely to be the person who gets you business, treat them with respect but understand that most agents would sell there own son if it meant their alterior motive happens. it's a business to business relationship.
      - nothing is certain until its written in the form of a contract, if it's not in the contract it doesnt exist no matter what mr agent says it doesnt exist
      - get yourself an accountant
      - get your contract checked by a professional, its not just a bit of paper, it's the thing that you will rely on when your not paid, your told to work 16hrs a day for your standard daily rate, mr taxman comes a knockin and wants the 40% tax + interest in 3 years time based on your working practice
      - consider joining the PCG, i personally believe the benefits are easily worth the business expense.
      - read the 'first timers' and 'free stuff' sections of this site, in fact read up on anything related to your business, VAT rules, tax rules, the more you learn the less likely you are to fail or ask a question that will irate others on here.
      - get a thick skin, you'll be working to perform a task/complete a project NOT to make friends with the locals.

      I think that's about it, oh and welcome, good luck
      Last edited by chef; 29 March 2008, 08:16.
      The proud owner of 125 Xeno Geek Points

      Comment


        #4
        Resigning just because you've got an interview is a bit suspect. Why not quit now if you're really so sure of youself. A contractor who can start the next day is far more likely to get an offer, than one who must wait 2-3 weeks. Speed is of the essence here.

        Agents like fresh meat, hence the calls. They're more likely pumping you for info than have real roles to offer. Don't bother following up. If they have something for you they will be over you like a bad rash. Visiting an agent == wasting time. Also insist on telephone interviews first, b4 face to face. Will saves you wasting a day and £££ travelling exp. Often, if they like you they will make offer on basis of a 15 min telephone chat.

        Now is not a good time to quit permiedom. Have a comfortable bench ready.

        http://www.contractoruk.com/news/003722.html

        Good luck anyway and I hope that your mum is a good cook.

        Comment


          #5
          It’s been a while since I’ve had to deal with agents from a contractor’s point of view. Now I get them pestering me on the odd occasion. I don’t need ‘em so I tell ‘em to shove it.

          Anyway, one key point in the relationship that fresh contractors (and some seasoned one) get confused with about agents is who they are act for. They are agents for the end client and not the contractor; they are not representing you.
          How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

          Follow me on Twitter - LinkedIn Profile - The HAB blog - New Blog: Mad Cameron
          Xeno points: +5 - Asperger rating: 36 - Paranoid Schizophrenic rating: 44%

          "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to high office" - Aesop

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Gunshy View Post
            One agent told me that he didn't rate my chances of getting any contract work and forwarded me a bunch of permie roles.
            When they say that they actually mean "I do not have any contract roles at the moment" or "I only work with perm roles"

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by chef View Post
              ok,

              im in a very good mood this morning and so before the others wake up and begin the abuse (thats what General is for, maybe best to post serious questions in Business/Contracts) here's a few free tips..

              Top post. Should be part of the CUK hall of fame. Listen to what the guy is saying.
              Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

              Comment


                #8
                Good post that Chef, you must have been totally mellow this morning!

                Maybe the OP will say thanx at some point. It's just a hit and run at the moment.
                Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by chef View Post
                  If you think it will benefit your company by face to face relations with agents then do it, it was 2 years before I met my agent so it's not like being permie, your judged on your reputation and your skills, if your carp then your gone on day 1 or as soon as you mess up.

                  Not where I work. They seem to shuffle the useless contractors around to different departments, or just keep them on.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by dude69 View Post
                    Not where I work. They seem to shuffle the useless contractors around to different departments, or just keep them on.
                    Crikey. Is that in the public sector by any chance?
                    Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway.

                    Comment

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