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Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 08:14
On a trivia note, if you get the chance watch a Japanese movie from the 50's called Hidden Fortress, this is where George Lucas got 'inspiration' from when creating Star Wars. I was amazed when watching this how much he completely lifted, it's not far off the same movie except he has set Star Wars in space, there are even a comic duo walking through desert like terrain at the beginning who became R2D2 and C3PO, and Lucas even lifted the scene fades from here. So much for originality.

It seems copying Japanese movies that the majority have not seen is quite an American habit, with the Wachowski brothers blatantly ripping off Ghost in the Shell with the Matrix too:

http://www.mig81.com/matrixgits/page1.html

And let's not forget everyone's favourite director Tarantino, who has ripped off more Hong King martial arts movies than I can be bothered to name, then there's Scorsese With 'The Departed' which ripped off Internal Affairs, again from the East, and got an oscar for it.

Don't get me wrong I like all the aforementioned movies, but maybe more people should take an interest in movies from the East, and they might see a more accomplished and original version of the next up-and-coming Tarantino movie, or Star Wars/Matrix installation before it's been made.

On a closing note, here's a sample of one of my favourite Eastern set pieces, it happens to be the longest unedited fight scene in a movie, I wouldn't be surprised if Tarantino lifts this scene wholesale should he make a Kill Bill 3 or 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJtuTxovQA

DimPrawn
23rd April 2008, 08:19
I've also noticed Coronation Street often blatently rips off story lines from Eastenders.

Spacecadet
23rd April 2008, 08:21
And let's not forget everyone's favourite director Tarantino, who has ripped off more Hong King martial arts movies than I can be bothered to name, then there's Scorsese With 'The Departed' which ripped off Internal Affairs, again from the East, and got an oscar for it.



:spel Infernal

The Departed wasn't a "rip off", it was a legitimate remake and the screen writer for Infernal Affairs was credited as a writer.

I should point out that I watched Infernal Affairs some years ago, I'm a keen watcher of eastern cinema.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 08:21
The Wachowski Brothers have acknowledged the influence of 'Ghost in the Shell' - admittedly a pretty significant influence.

Moscow Mule
23rd April 2008, 08:21
Isn't the matrix based on the book Neuromancer by that Will Gibson fella?

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 08:23
:spel Infernal

The Departed wasn't a "rip off", it was a legitimate remake and the screen writer for Infernal Affairs was credited as a writer.

Yeah, thanks, there is a story to that error, a friend disputing the Western translation, although the proper name strictly is Mou gaan dou which translates to neither.

Spacecadet
23rd April 2008, 08:24
Yeah, thanks, there is a story to that error, a friend disputing the Western translation, although the proper name strictly is Mou gaan dou which translates to neither.

translates as "Non-Stop Way" which doesn't make much sense in english :)

MrRobin
23rd April 2008, 08:25
The whole entertainment world is saturated with copies, remakes, band reformations, repeats and so on. Everything from the subtle plagiarism of content from films as you describe, to the completely unsubtle NBA or NFL or Fifa 2000/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 games that are released every year.

Then you get something that is fairly new or atleast brings some new creative input and the writers go on strike because they get a pittance.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 08:25
Isn't the matrix based on the book Neuromancer by that Will Gibson fella?

It isn't based on it as far as I am aware, but there are similarities. The Matrix makes reference to a ton of stuff.

cailin maith
23rd April 2008, 08:27
I like the Matrix - saw all 3 at the IMAX and it was :eek: wow :eek:

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 08:27
The Wachowski Brothers have acknowledged the influence of 'Ghost in the Shell' - admittedly a pretty significant influence.

Sorry, I'll resist calling you a fanboy. They can hardly dispute it can they, they may as well call the Matrix 'Ghost in the Shell - Live Action Version'? I wacthed Ghost in the Shell when I was 16, and preached about it at the time, no one was interested. I am now 29 and people wet their pants about the Matrix, I was absolutely shocked how much was lifted, the term 'influence' seems to be used by people like the Wachowski brothers as a synonym for copy, were GIS an American movie there would have been a law suit.

Be an innovator, use a Ghost in the Shell avatar.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 08:34
Sorry, I'll resist calling you a fanboy. They can hardly dispute it can they, they may as well call the Matrix 'Ghost in the Shell - Live Action Version'? I wacthed Ghost in the Shell when I was 16, and preached about it at the time, no one was interested. I am now 29 and people wet their pants about the Matrix, I was absolutely shocked how much was lifted, the term 'influence' seems to be used by people like the Wachowski brothers as a synonym for copy, were GIS an American movie there would have been a law suit.

Be an innovator, use a Ghost in the Shell avatar.

Bollox.

Nothing is completely new.

People like you love things that aren't as successful as the things they have influenced and you think you are a cool cat in doing so. You are not. You are a sad arse geek loser.

HTH

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 08:35
...and why do you have a quote in your sig from that universe-obsessed geek in the wheelchair?

Oh wait...

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 08:36
Bollox.

Nothing is completely new.

People like you love things that aren't as successful as the things they have influenced and you think you are a cool cat in doing so. You are not. You are a sad arse geek loser.

HTH

The Wachowski brothers are at home now, next to a pile of Anime movies, counting the money you gave them and laughing at you.

Moscow Mule
23rd April 2008, 08:36
Nothing is completely new.


Except Shakespeare - he was new at the time.

There was a chap on the news last week (or was it monday - oh so far in the past) that could trace any character in any film back to a Shakespearean character.

Spacecadet
23rd April 2008, 08:40
Except Shakespeare - he was new at the time.


One of my English Lit teachers was convinced that shakespeare ripped off some of his plays from other less successful playwrites

cailin maith
23rd April 2008, 08:41
One of my English Lit teachers was convinced that shakespeare ripped off some of his plays from other less successful playwrites

Hey, my English teacher used to say that too..... :freaky:

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 08:46
Hey, my English teacher used to say that too..... :freaky:

Well, I don't know about that, but he based a large number of his plays on historical events, so was influenced by his environment.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 08:52
The Wachowski brothers are at home now, next to a pile of Anime movies, counting the money you gave them and laughing at you.

:confused:

Erm, yeah, I was lucky enough to be able to afford to go to see each film once and buy the DVD box set. I have a few Anime DVDs too. Why shouldn't they be counting their money? I count mine. We all do.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 09:15
:confused:

Erm, yeah, I was lucky enough to be able to afford to go to see each film once and buy the DVD box set.

You're a contractor aren't you? Shouldn't have been too much of a financial burden.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 09:20
Not sure Matrix is a rip off of GITS. There are sinilarities and GITS is acknowledged as an influence, but that web site compares a number of scenes that are not like for like though they appear to be.
The jump scene and the truck and phone are clear rip offs, but the rest are questionable. The raining characters is acknowledged, but GITS fills the screen in a normal way.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 09:25
Not sure Matrix is a rip off of GITS. There are sinilarities and GITS is acknowledged as an influence, but that web site compares a number of scenes that are not like for like though they appear to be.
The jump scene and the truck and phone are clear rip offs, but the rest are questionable. The raining characters is acknowledged, but GITS fills the screen in a normal way.

Have you actually watched Ghost in the Shell, honestly? I would guess not, from your statement, looking at that website won't tell you if it rips it off or not, watch the movie, it's the philosophy and feel of the film.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:32
You're a contractor aren't you? Shouldn't have been too much of a financial burden.

You missed the sarcasm

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:33
Have you actually watched Ghost in the Shell, honestly?

He has, but he doesn't get a hard-on over it like you.

Pickle2
23rd April 2008, 09:36
Don't get me wrong I like all the aforementioned movies, but maybe more people should take an interest in movies from the East



Are you kidding me? If I downloaded any more "movies from the East" there wouldnt even be time for a pot noodle between winks.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:41
maybe more people should take an interest in movies from the East]

I think people should do what they like. I don't think people should try to impose their views on others.

It would be like me telling you to try a little bit of eyeliner the next time you get dressed to go out.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 09:46
Have you actually watched Ghost in the Shell, honestly? I would guess not, from your statement, looking at that website won't tell you if it rips it off or not, watch the movie, it's the philosophy and feel of the film.
I watched it when it came out I bought it on video when released and then on DVD once available.
I suspect it is you that has not watched it or the matrix or if you did so you did it one eyed. Once you have decided it is a rip off then it is easy to select scenes that match, but they are not like for like scenes. As for the philosophy and feel well, where to start.
This could take days:
Matrix: mood is set by up beat banging tunes.
GITS: Haunting lilting melodies.
Matrix: 2 worlds. 1 computer simulation. 1 reality.
GITS: 1 world. Real.
Matrix: Real characters have no knowledge thir world is a simulation unless woken up.
GITS: Characters choose enhancements to be able to easily get into an all pervasive net.
Matrix: The whole world has been taken over by machines and the humans are enslaved for their power generation.
GITS: One program on the whole net has gone sentient and wants a body to inhabit.

I suspect that you are so pleased with yourself at "finding" out this fraud that you have bought into the whole rip off.
The story lines are different, the settings are different, a few scene are similar and the influence is acknowledged.

I could talk about this all day but I have watched both films dozens of times (they are both permanently with me when I travel) and my conclusion is not as severe as yours.
I could compare some scenes that your web site misses (I skimmed it so could have missed stuff).

George Lucas also admits that he watched any number of "epic" movies to decide what makes a true epic. He has told the world this any number of times. He said his team then boiled it down to component parts and wrote a story using those parts. The genious was setting it in space. I have not seen the one quoted as a rip off. He is bound to do scenes that look like rip offs, nothing is new. Sword fights will always look like Errol Flyn, chariot races in any form will always look like Ben Hur.

Get over it. Get over yourself.

threaded
23rd April 2008, 09:47
The Magnificent Seven was a remake of Seven Samurai which itself was an attempt to make a Japanese version of John Fords westerns. :alien

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:49
I watched it when it came out I bought it on video when released and then on DVD once available.
I suspect it is you that has not watched it or the matrix or if you did so you did it one eyed. Once you have decided it is a rip off then it is easy to select scenes that match, but they are not like for like scenes. As for the philosophy and feel well, where to start.
This could take days:
Matrix: mood is set by up beat banging tunes.
GITS: Haunting lilting melodies.
Matrix: 2 worlds. 1 computer simulation. 1 reality.
GITS: 1 world. Real.
Matrix: Real characters have no knowledge thir world is a simulation unless woken up.
GITS: Characters choose enhancements to be able to easily get into an all pervasive net.
Matrix: The whole world has been taken over by machines and the humans are enslaved for their power generation.
GITS: One program on the whole net has gone sentient and wants a body to inhabit.

I suspect that you are so pleased with yourself at "finding" out this fraud that you have bought into the whole rip off.
The story lines are different, the settings are different, a few scene are similar and the influence is acknowledged.

I could talk about this all day but I have watched both films dozens of times (they are both permanently with me when I travel) and my conclusion is not as severe as yours.
I could compare some scenes that your web site misses (I skimmed it so could have missed stuff).

George Lucas also admits that he watched any number of "epic" movies to decide what makes a true epic. He has told the world this any number of times. He said his team then boiled it down to component parts and wrote a story using those parts. The genious was setting it in space. I have not seen the one quoted as a rip off. He is bound to do scenes that look like rip offs, nothing is new. Sword fights will always look like Errol Flyn, chariot races in any form will always look like Ben Hur.

Get over it. Get over yourself.

:yay:

Lucy
23rd April 2008, 09:50
You missed the sarcasm

I think he is irony deficient.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:50
I think he is irony deficient.

Nicely put.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 09:51
I think he is irony deficient.

The only irony is that in him stating I missed his sarcasm he missed my return sarcasm.

Pondlife
23rd April 2008, 09:52
I don't think people should try to impose their views on others.


Are you new here or something?:confused:

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 09:54
I watched it when it came out I bought it on video when released and then on DVD once available.
I suspect it is you that has not watched it or the matrix or if you did so you did it one eyed. Once you have decided it is a rip off then it is easy to select scenes that match, but they are not like for like scenes. As for the philosophy and feel well, where to start.
This could take days:
Matrix: mood is set by up beat banging tunes.
GITS: Haunting lilting melodies.
Matrix: 2 worlds. 1 computer simulation. 1 reality.
GITS: 1 world. Real.
Matrix: Real characters have no knowledge thir world is a simulation unless woken up.
GITS: Characters choose enhancements to be able to easily get into an all pervasive net.
Matrix: The whole world has been taken over by machines and the humans are enslaved for their power generation.
GITS: One program on the whole net has gone sentient and wants a body to inhabit.

I suspect that you are so pleased with yourself at "finding" out this fraud that you have bought into the whole rip off.
The story lines are different, the settings are different, a few scene are similar and the influence is acknowledged.

I could talk about this all day but I have watched both films dozens of times (they are both permanently with me when I travel) and my conclusion is not as severe as yours.
I could compare some scenes that your web site misses (I skimmed it so could have missed stuff).

George Lucas also admits that he watched any number of "epic" movies to decide what makes a true epic. He has told the world this any number of times. He said his team then boiled it down to component parts and wrote a story using those parts. The genious was setting it in space. I have not seen the one quoted as a rip off. He is bound to do scenes that look like rip offs, nothing is new. Sword fights will always look like Errol Flyn, chariot races in any form will always look like Ben Hur.

Get over it. Get over yourself.

I haven't just found this out, known about it for some years, but read a Star Wars post on here and thought it would be an interesting topic, I often churn out random trivia like that. I've been an anime fan since I was old enough to watch it so have definitelty watched GIS a few times. Each to their own, I like the Matrix and Star Wars, but I also accept that they are slightly more than merely influenced by the aforementioned.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:58
Are you new here or something?:confused:

:wink

You know what I mean. He needs to give a little resp-e-e-e-ct to-oo-oo-oo meeeeeeeeeee...

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 09:59
The only irony is that in him stating I missed his sarcasm he missed my return sarcasm.

You were beng funny?

Yep. I TOTALLY missed it.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 10:02
You were beng funny?

Yep. I TOTALLY missed it.

Sarcasm has to be funny?

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 10:05
Sarcasm has to be funny?

It helps, but it is clearly not a requirement when you use it.

Why are you annoying a lot of people today? Is this your application to be the latest CUK Troll?

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 10:06
It helps, but it is clearly not a requirement when you use it.

Why are you annoying a lot of people today? Is this your application to be the latest CUK Troll?

Are you the voice of the majority? I think we should hold an election.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 10:10
I haven't just found this out, known about it for some years, but read a Star Wars post on here and thought it would be an interesting topic, I often churn out random trivia like that. I've been an anime fan since I was old enough to watch it so have definitelty watched GIS a few times. Each to their own, I like the Matrix and Star Wars, but I also accept that they are slightly more than merely influenced by the aforementioned.I didnt say you had just found this out, I said you were so pleased with yourself when you did that you bought into the conspiracy.
If you know these films so well then you should be able to do other comparisons of similar scenes and tell me what is wrong with the web site you linked.
Let me start: The web site compares the two wagons exploding. It says both are armoured and it states that in the Matrix we dont know what happened to make the truck burst into flames.
In the matrix it is a garbage truck (an aknowledged ref to GITS BTW) and it bursts into flames as agebt Smith crashed it after trying to wipe out Trinity at the phone box. Compare that scene to the phone box and garbage truck in GITS.

BTW. You are arguing with a benched contractor with access to both films if I am unsure of my facts.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 10:11
Are you the voice of the majority? I think we should hold an election.

I think you should look at the threads in the General forum. You even have a Troll Alert thread. Grats.

Do a poll then and good luck.

:grin

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 10:15
I didnt say you had just found this out, I said you were so pleased with yourself when you did that you bought into the conspiracy.
If you know these films so well then you should be able to do other comparisons of similar scenes and tell me what is wrong with the web site you linked.
Let me start: The web site compares the two wagons exploding. It says both are armoured and it states that in the Matrix we dont know what happened to make the truck burst into flames.
In the matrix it is a garbage truck (an aknowledged ref to GITS BTW) and it bursts into flames as agebt Smith crashed it after trying to wipe out Trinity at the phone box. Compare that scene to the phone box and garbage truck in GITS.

BTW. You are arguing with a benched contractor with access to both films if I am unsure of my facts.

You do seem to have quite a bit of time available to analyse the minutae :happy I have both available too, although I have some meetings today that I have to do some research for so don't have the time to break everything down to it's exponents and analyse them logically, thinking them through. That, and I doubt I can be bothered right now, I suppose from a high level the main theme of the film is lifted from GIS, in that if it didn't exist then neither would the Matrix.

The more in depth you analyse the less similar they will appear of course.

Dalek Supreme
23rd April 2008, 10:23
The attack on the Death Star sequence is pretty heavily influenced by 633 Squadron I would say.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 10:29
I suppose from a high level the main theme of the film is lifted from GISNo, the concepts are completely different.

if it didn't exist then neither would the Matrix. Not exactly. The Matrix may still have been made, but would not have been able to refer to GITS.

The more in depth you analyse the less similar they will appear of course.True, but you may find more obvious references in the details.

You are talking about 2 of my fave films here and I dont need time to recall the bits I know. I would only need to check when unsure.

As you couldnt do it:
1. GITS: One of the agents presses a button on a briefcase. The case falls away to leave him holding a small machine gune.
You may recognise that from the Matrix.
2. GITS: The ghost hacked guy shooting high velocity rounds at the truck scene. Compare the raining bullet cases to Neo shooting the mini gun on the chopper.

Want any more?

There are lots of refs, but they are acknowledged as homage rather than unacknolwedged rip offs.

The Matrix is a stand alone, complex movie (did you like what I did there?). It is not a live version of GITS. The story, the setting, the characters and the scenes are not ripped off.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 10:38
No, the concepts are completely different.
Not exactly. The Matrix may still have been made, but would not have been able to refer to GITS.
True, but you may find more obvious references in the details.

You are talking about 2 of my fave films here and I dont need time to recall the bits I know. I would only need to check when unsure.

As you couldnt do it:
1. GITS: One of the agents presses a button on a briefcase. The case falls away to leave him holding a small machine gune.
You may recognise that from the Matrix.
2. GITS: The ghost hacked guy shooting high velocity rounds at the truck scene. Compare the raining bullet cases to Neo shooting the mini gun on the chopper.

Want any more?

There are lots of refs, but they are acknowledged as homage rather than unacknolwedged rip offs.

The Matrix is a stand alone, complex movie (did you like what I did there?). It is not a live version of GITS. The story, the setting, the characters and the scenes are not ripped off.

Ok, this is my last post as you are clearly determined to disagree with me, which is fine. I mean there are the specifics like the green kanji characters that became binary characters in The Matrix, the cerebral interfaces at the base of the neck etc. etc.

Then there is the general theme of the movies, mainly humans being linked to a network in the future, and hackers (Neo and gang?) waging a war against cyborgs (Agent Smith's?) in order to infiltrate the Matrix, er, interactive network even. Although of course we are on the side of the Cyborgs/Agent Smith's in GIS.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 10:45
Ok, this is my last post as you are clearly determined to disagree with me, which is fine. I mean there are the specifics like the green kanji characters that became binary characters in The Matrix, the cerebral interfaces at the base of the neck etc. etc.

Then there is the general theme of the movies, mainly humans being linked to a network in the future, and hackers (Neo and gang?) waging a war against cyborgs (Agent Smith's?) in order to infiltrate the Matrix, er, interactive network even. Although of course we are on the side of the Cyborgs/Agent Smith's in GIS.Glad you are giving up, it is beyond my capabilities to explain the concepts of thes two movies to someone who is so clearly wide of the mark to start with.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 10:52
Glad you are giving up, it is beyond my capabilities to explain the concepts of thes two movies to someone who is so clearly wide of the mark to start with.

Only giving up on trying to argue the point with you as you clearly refuse to consider it, which is fine.

Spacecadet
23rd April 2008, 10:53
I was hoping that this thread would develop into a discussion about eastern cinema in general

Looks like I over estimated CUK again

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 10:56
I was hoping that this thread would develop into a discussion about eastern cinema in general

Looks like I over estimated CUK again

You'll need your own thread with CFK for that. Have fun debating with him.

oracleslave
23rd April 2008, 10:56
I was hoping that this thread would develop into a discussion about eastern cinema in general

Looks like I over estimated CUK again

Ahh well at least you still had hope.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 11:01
Only giving up on trying to argue the point with you as you clearly refuse to consider it, which is fine.Now now, you said that your previous post would be your last.

I have considered all the evidence on all your concepts (years ago) and have come to my own conclusion.
GITS is certainly an influence on the Matrix and some scenes are homages to the original. The influence is acknowledged.
BUT The Matrix is not a blatant rip off of GITS in any way.


I am willing to consider your points, but as you seem to ignore my arguments to the contrary there is no point trying to enlighten you.

See previous posts as to why your concepts dont stand up.

If you want to put spurious links and similarities. Look up Halcyon Drift and other Hooded Swan books for references to those jack plugs.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 11:06
Now now, you said that your previous post would be your last.

I have considered all the evidence on all your concepts (years ago) and have come to my own conclusion.
GITS is certainly an influence on the Matrix and some scenes are homages to the original. The influence is acknowledged.
BUT The Matrix is not a blatant rip off of GITS in any way.


I am willing to consider your points, but as you seem to ignore my arguments to the contrary there is no point trying to enlighten you.

See previous posts as to why your concepts dont stand up.

If you want to put spurious links and similarities. Look up Halcyon Drift and other Hooded Swan books for references to those jack plugs.

Give it up, TLG. Your points are solid. CFK is clutching at straws. Whilst you are willing to consider his points, he is unable to see other opinions (as is evidenced in this and other threads).

He seems to me to be one of those people that makes my blood boil. You know the type: 'like what they say and say what they like'. A bloody-minded know-all who thinks he is better than you because he likes something more obscure.

As I said before:

Bollox.

The Lone Gunman
23rd April 2008, 11:10
Give it up, TLG. Your points are solid. CFK is clutching at straws. Whilst you are willing to consider his points, he is unable to see other opinions (as is evidenced in this and other threads).

He seems to me to be one of those people that makes my blood boil. You know the type: 'like what they say and say what they like'. A bloody-minded know-all who thinks he is better than you because he likes something more obscure.

As I said before:

Bollox.Thanks Xen.
I just hate it when some know nothing upstart starts quoting obviously flawed evidence and bases their argument on it as though it is fact.
I shall chill out this afternoon and maybe watch a couple of my favourite movies.

Xenophon
23rd April 2008, 11:14
I shall chill out this afternoon and maybe watch a couple of my favourite movies.

:smile

Good plan.

Keep that bench warm. I'm almost in single figures in terms of days left and despite a soft-ish market, I'm well up for a little break before the next gig.

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 12:03
Thanks Xen.
I just hate it when some know nothing upstart starts quoting obviously flawed evidence and bases their argument on it as though it is fact.
I shall chill out this afternoon and maybe watch a couple of my favourite movies.

That's it team up, then you'll be able to beat down my opinions... Lone Gunman I'm surprised you didn't reference Virtuosity whilst you were doing the whole other influences rant.

sasguru
23rd April 2008, 12:05
That's it team up, then you'll be able to beat down my opinions... .

Oh look its the "I'm a misunderstood genius" argument.
That is quite clearly a rip-off. :laugh

Charles Foster Kane
23rd April 2008, 12:06
Producer Joel Silver has stated that the Wachowski brothers first described their intentions for The Matrix by showing him that anime (Ghost in the Shell) and saying, "We wanna do that for real".

End.