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Ageism and Old cruisers

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    Ageism and Old cruisers

    This letter that appeared in Professional recruiter (what is an Oxymoron?)annoyed me two editions ago and I have been meaning to trash it:

    http://www.professional-recruiter.co...m.asp?id=13319

    Older and wiser

    With the draft age discrimination regulations imminent, employers need to focus on experience and ability

    posted 11:27am 12/07/05
    CONTRIBUTOR: Philip Ayling





    "Ageism is a recurring issue in our industry, and each time I am reminded of sporting prowess. For many years our top-flight sports players have the skill to ‘play’ at the pinnacle of their careers.

    A few years on, they still retain the passion for sport, yet the physical drive to be able to play at the same level has waned. So what do they do? Many refocus their expertise, passion and commitment to other areas of sport, bringing with them all the attributes acquired while at the top of their game.

    If you can do the job, regardless of age, or any other ‘ism’ for that matter, your ability should be paramount in the mind of the employer. As recruitment consultants, we need to educate managers to recruit with an open mind and to communicate to them the importance of new and varied experiences to their organisations’ development.

    As an industry we have always recruited people on their ability to perform the role, so I believe we have been future-proofing ourselves well ahead of the imminent legislation. It’s in our best business interests to place as many candidates as possible based on their core skills, reinforcing that any discrimination is lacking in business sense.

    Candidates develop at different speeds, yet two candidates with a 15-year age range are potentially capable of doing the same job. For example, are we to place redundant 50-year-olds on the scrap heap because they have chosen to work at a lower level than they are qualified, yet are perfectly capable of performing the job? Organisations will have to demonstrate valid reasons for turning these candidates down over a younger person with the same skills.

    We have to continue to equip our clients with the knowledge and expertise to adhere to a higher moral code and recognise the gravitas that can come with experience. Just look at how many of our sporting greats go on to carve out new careers for themselves based on their former glory."
    It is the arrogance and the "sucking up" stupidity of someone who, by virtue of his experience in recruitment should know better. Excuse me but employers have been around long enough to know the types of people they should employ, not some loser from a tin pot body shop agency.

    I rather fear that Mr Ayling thinks that by sucking up to people who know nothing about recruitment other than how to destroy jobs (the government), he can pick up some public sector business, or he can manipulate proper employers by making them feel guilty enough to lower their standards and thereby make it easier for him and his pokey agency to place people.

    Let me point out the first fallacy, which is that racism and sexism are totally different from ageism and sexism is different from both. There is no excuse for discriminating against people on the basis of the colour of their skin at all. There is an excuse for discriminating against women which is that they tend to want to step out of the work environment to have kids.
    There are many subtle reasons for discriminating against and for people on account of their age. If a company wishes to employ a marketing director in order that they can be groomed to become the next chief executive then they are going to want someone who has a track record of continual and fast moving success by the time they reach 30.

    It is true that if someone has not made it to a certain level by a certain age they never will. On the other hand employers want to also employ people to repeat what they have done before (IT contractors are a classic example). So they tend to go for experience rather than potential.

    This is how the subtleties of recruitment play themselves out. If someone has "cruised through their career" without really trying to push themselves, concentrating more on self preservation rather than moving forward, they invariably get made redundant. It is nothing to do with age that these people are out on the street, it is to do with how they themselves have managed their careers. They have no one else to blame than themselves.

    You see "cruisers" everywhere, and many of them are good people, but they end up on the scrap heap at forty. The advantage of such a seemingly cruel system is that an intensively competitive labour market is kept forever on its toes.

    By the same token employers themselves cannot sit back. Their best employees will be tracked down leaving them to compete in their market place with a bunch of old "cruisers"

    Ayling uses the sportsman analogy of how many succesful sports people move on to become succesful in other jobs. I will bet anyone that they are not that successful and tend to become stereotyped as media presenters or the local tennis coach in the local park.
    It does not occur to Ayling that top sportsmen in football, rugby, cricket, tennis are all under thirty. Older sportsmen have lost the physical and mental energy for sport by the time they are thirty five.. the same applies to workers. It is never ability that is the sole driver behind the selection of a worker, it is the attitude and drive behind that ability.

    Recruitment consultancies should be helping their customers to work around the legislation rather than encouraging the state to meddle in our lives.
    Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

    #2
    It doesn't bloody well work unfortunately!!! Having reached an age where I wake up with a new facial excrescence every morning and have those little embarassing accidents at regular intervals throughout the day I thought I was immune to getting contracts. No such luck it seems!

    It's NOT FAIR!!!

    http://www.xoggoth.org/renew.html
    bloggoth

    If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
    John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

    Comment


      #3
      Would not ageism in the workplace be substantially removed if youngsters were educated in all the tricks and scams employers use to get them to work for nothing?

      Tricks and scams such as "Professional Working Day"=="60 hours a week and no overtime", "Profit sharing scheme"=="Development department moved to a subsid that accounts run at a paper loss"

      For isn't that what ageism really is: the desire of employers for people they can pay lower wages to?
      Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
      threadeds website, and here's my blog.

      Comment


        #4
        >It is true that if someone has not made it to a certain level by a certain age >they never will.

        Can you see the conceit in your words ? True, it is a cliche often heard, but look behind those words my agent friend. Look at your own attitudes, and try and get around your preconceived ideas. I am sure I don't need to start reeling off the counterexamples ...

        >This is how the subtleties of recruitment play themselves out

        Subtleties, bah - there is no subtlety in recruitment - it is pretty much supply and demand with a large dollop of politics eg. Large supply of potential candidates means very selective, highly picky employers, who use all sort of discrimination to pick their employees. When demand is high, supply small, any old IT contractor can get a job. Not too hard, even for you dodgy, to understand.

        >For isn't that what ageism really is: the desire of employers for people they >can pay lower wages to?

        Certainly a big factor - another is corporate culture - noone wants to employ someone older and more experienced than themselves - and the corporation usually has its junior to mid managers at 30-35.
        Last edited by Jabberwocky; 31 July 2005, 19:22.

        Comment


          #5
          We live in a youth obsessed age and real world experience is derided and discouraged. I do not agree that dynamism is solely the preserve of youth and the sport analogy does not really work in IT or office terms as the onus is on mental agility rather than physical strength.

          "Is not wisdom found among the aged? Does not long life bring understanding?" - Job 12:12
          Sola gratia

          Sola fide

          Soli Deo gloria

          Comment


            #6
            Chico: True about the obsession with youth, not so sure about the mental agility though, consider the number of mental lightweights that post on here. As for physical strength, some lads I see about look tired carrying a PC base unit from one room to another.
            Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
            threadeds website, and here's my blog.

            Comment


              #7
              Threaded within my relatively short business life I have met some truly exceptional people who have done so much and have taught me a lot. However they cannot find any decent contracts. Why? Because they are over 50. It is tragic. The obsession with youth is hurting business, that with sexism and racism gives us a business environment filled with mediocrity. Recruitment agents are partly to blame - Dodgy himself said he would never employ a black person or women in their 30's who recently got married or something to that effect. Think of all those talented people out there being frozen out because of prejudice. A shame that demeans us all.
              Sola gratia

              Sola fide

              Soli Deo gloria

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DodgyAgent
                Recruitment consultancies should be helping their customers to work around the legislation rather than encouraging the state to meddle in our lives.
                I agree, I don't want to deal with recruitment consultants who are over 30. They are generally slow and useless.
                I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ageism

                  I will concede (let us say) that every member of this board has the ability and the talent to run a major PLC, to be a Richard Branson (god help us), or be Tony Blair. All of this is within our grasp, no doubt about it.
                  What we ignore is the fundamental dynamic that actually moves us from having the ability to fulfilling our potential. Ageist obsessed twats forget this.
                  The key is desire and ambition. Without these two dynamics nothing happens, people do not make it to the very top. Just look at the top spertsmen and women in the world. Talent is everywhere, but the desire to achieve is rare.
                  There is certainly a place for older workers; If I want a plumber an electrician or a plasterer or a cobol programmer then give me someone with 5-10 years experience rather than some callow youth with potential. I dont want him improving and learning at my expense.
                  But most employers want young people because they want them (not to exploit them) to develop with the company. I am sorry but no 50 year old is going to change their habits. What you see is what you get.
                  A 50 year old is never going to move forward, they are always and only going to repeat much of what they have done in the past.
                  I see a lot of contractors who are so set in their ways- I had one who was over 50 come to see me yesterday.. he was so ready to form opinions on the basis of a job spec saying that "in all the years I have been a project manager "that" strategey has never worked" Or "I do things this way or nothing". Fine, but the question I ask is Why are you out of work?
                  The best "older workers" are the ones who show an interest in other ideas (even if they have used them in the past)- these people are few and far between.

                  The great thing about the market is that no one has a place to hide. You may be the most talented person on the planet, but if you fail to back it up with commitment the market will find you out. Legislation is an answer to a problem that does not exist. If you are 50 and cannot find a job, having enjoyed 7 weeks holiday a year, and you have been replaced by a youngster then my message is "stop whingeing and apply for a job at B&Q.
                  Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Chico
                    Threaded within my relatively short business life I have met some truly exceptional people who have done so much and have taught me a lot. However they cannot find any decent contracts. Why? Because they are over 50. It is tragic. The obsession with youth is hurting business, that with sexism and racism gives us a business environment filled with mediocrity. Recruitment agents are partly to blame - Dodgy himself said he would never employ a black person or women in their 30's who recently got married or something to that effect. Think of all those talented people out there being frozen out because of prejudice. A shame that demeans us all.
                    Chico, I know it is not fashionable, but prejudice is good, prejudice is natural, prejudice is necessary. Prejudice protects us. I dont employ black females simply because I am afraid of that they will sue me. Prejudice makes us cross the road rather than walk past a group of hooded teenagers walking on the dark side of the road.

                    These people you know with talent who are over 50 have only themselves to blame if they have reached the end of their careers. Businesses are not losing out, infact they are being sensible. Why employ a 55 year old who is only looking towards retirement when you want someone with the hunger, drive and ambition to move your business forward? These employers have the benefit of history that will tell them.. 50 year olds have reached therir potential long ago, employers are certainly not losing out.
                    Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

                    Comment

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