Extracting the Michael .... or what

**malvolio** · 12 November 2003, 12:15

Oh wake up, do

Nobody applies - 'cos the rate is crap.

Oh shame

Oh look, a gentleman from another country has appplied and will work at that rate. Problem solved...

One more out of work UK IT person. Who cares...

**oaksoft** · 24 November 2003, 23:16

Extracting the Michael? A touch of realism needed?

Well, let's look at it....

£150 per day is £750 per week.

That is £36k p.a. with about 4 weeks holiday thrown in for free.

Providing it is IR35 bullet proof - not difficult, and you went the min sal, high divis then you could expect to lose about £7k in tax.

Even after tax you'll be earning well over the average household income in most areas of the country.

There are better rates out there but I'm not sure that in the above context you could realistically claim it was "taking the Michael".

Contractors do not have a god given right to earn huge hourly rates any more than street cleaners do.
.....and like it or not there are tens of thousands out there who would gladly work at that rate and much less besides.

According to Derek Wreay of ATSCO, contractors are simply too expensive and that rates have a long way to drop yet.
Why should contractors expect to earn more than permies?
I agree that talented contractors WILL always earn top dollar but for the majority of us? Are we that special? Or were we just lucky for a few years that the market was in our favour?

**thunderlizard** · 26 November 2003, 11:12

Re: Extracting the Michael? A touch of realism needed?

I think I'm with you Oaksoft - how many other jobs pay that much after just 4 years experience? If it's genuinely taking the micky for the level of skill required (which I doubt), anybody half decent will be able to convince the client that they've underbudgeted and ned to reconsider the rate.
Dead right though that the client isn't concerned with buoying the UK IT jobs market - why on earth should he be?

**MrKobie** · 13 December 2003, 11:51

Not so bad

Currently working in Dublin & J2EE rates are about the 200+ euro mark which comes in at around £150. Apparently AOL are hiring Java people for 150 euro - £105.

**oaksoft** · 13 December 2003, 13:10

Again, hardly taking the ****

150 per day is £38k - I defy anyone to walk down the street and find someone to agree that this is a poor rate.

105 per day is about £27.5k. Whilst this rate might not be great it is again well over the average salary of the country.

I still maintain we need a modicum of reality here.

Interesting figures nonetheless.

**zeitghost** · 13 December 2003, 15:57

Re: Again, hardly taking the ****

I thought average earnings were £24k.

**PerlOfWisdom** · 15 December 2003, 12:03

Re: Again, hardly taking the ****

£27.5k > £24k

**zeitghost** · 15 December 2003, 12:11

Re: Again, hardly taking the ****

Ah, so £3k5 is "well over"....

**tommydunn** · 15 December 2003, 18:04

Re: Again, hardly taking the ****

It is not 35K a year,

You have not taken into account sickness, bank holiday's, Employers NI (in addition to employee), Accountancy costs, Company running costs, Time when not in contract, Possibly Pension costs, Training costs together with the fact that you often get less than the advertised rate.

A contract at this rate would equate to about 25k, not a fortune for a risky profession, much better to take a permie job.

Extracting the Michael .... or what