ID cards

[Peoplesoft bloke]

There's no point trying to debate issues with people who share your views (witness the number of threads on here saying "aren't New Labour wank? - yes I agree they have ruined everything"). So let's have some logical practical reasons why New Labour's ID card scheme is so great from those who are in favour. Just to be different how about sticking to the argument instead of getting personal, too?

[Paddy]

There's no point trying to debate issues with people who share your views (witness the number of threads on here saying "aren't New Labour wink? - yes I agree they have ruined everything"). So let's have some logical practical reasons why New Labour's ID card scheme is so great from those who are in favour. Just to be different how about sticking to the argument instead of getting personal, too?

The more complex the ID system, the less people will use common sense and rely just on the card. When will be the first time that we hear “He had a valid ID card so I didn’t get suspicious about the wires connected to his rucksack”

[VectraMan]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute:

I don't like the idea from a civil liberties point of view, but, I already have a government issued passport, driver's licence, birth certificate, electorol roll entry and NI number, not to mention bank accounts, credit cards, utilities and numerous other things. I've always wondered quite why people are so afraid of a single ID card system when the government already has the same information anyway.

And actually a single ID card would be more convenient day to day than digging up your passport and utility bills when you need to ID yourself.

(Okay so I also think it wouldn't improve security, would waste a load of money, and being a government project the data would be left unecrypted on a USB stick on a train within a few weeks).

The real issue is not ID cards, but the laws that will come with ID cards. I.e. being required to carry identity papers with you and produce it to the police on demand.

[dang65]

And actually a single ID card would be more convenient day to day than digging up your passport and utility bills when you need to ID yourself.

The government keep using that argument as well. They even said last year that the banks, utilities, shops etc would not have access to the ID card database, so our data are all safe. I don't understand that at all. At the moment these organisations require photo ID, proof of address, proof of earnings, proof of employment... but they're supposedly suddenly going to be happy with a bit of plastic which they can't even check against a database??

Rather than replacing passport, utility bills, bank statements etc, the ID card will be just another requirement on the list as it doesn't really prove anything in itself other than that you're a UK citizen or entitled to be here. And it only does that if you can cross reference it.

I genuinely can't think of a single point in favour of ID cards.

[ace00]

So, plus points.....tricky. It could work:

1. Outsource the project to a competent IT company (PM me for more info on that G.B.), with well-defined requirements.
2. Roll NI, passport, ID card into 1.
3. Use savings from 2 to fund the project.
4. Cross-ref to DNA DB (controversial maybe but if you go down this road, go all the way).

[Diver]

I vote ID cards for everyone, and a national fingerprint and DNA Database.

With the Proviso that the DNA database is only accessible for ID purposes by the authorities , and that it is written into law that this stipulation can only be changed by a minimum 90% public vote.

No access for health or genetic research etc. whatsoever.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I was hoping to find somone in favour of the scheme that is currently being done rather than ideas for other versions of it.

[The Lone Gunman]

ID cards seem to work in Germany.

I am for ID cards in principal. With a decent scheme different authorities could have different levels of access to any part of your details and you would only need one ID.

ID cards will never solve the problems the Government is using as an excuse to implement/inflict them.

The problem is that it will be badly implemented and anybody will be able to access all your records. I can see insurance companies lobbying for access to medical records etc.
It will end up being another form of ID instead of the only form.
It wont fit in your wallet. It will probably be in 2 or 3 parts.
Each business will have to pay for access and that cost as well as the cost of a card will be passed on to us.

I could go on.

[Diver]

ID cards seem to work in Germany.

I am for ID cards in principal. With a decent scheme different authorities could have different levels of access to any part of your details and you would only need one ID.

ID cards will never solve the problems the Government is using as an excuse to implement/inflict them.

The problem is that it will be badly implemented and anybody will be able to access all your records. I can see insurance companies lobbying for access to medical records etc.
It will end up being another form of ID instead of the only form.
It wont fit in your wallet. It will probably be in 2 or 3 parts.
Each business will have to pay for access and that cost as well as the cost of a card will be passed on to us.

I could go on.

This is the reason I would only vote for it; if it was written into law, and a national referendum with a vote of 90% was required to change the laws of access.

[TimberWolf]

My biggest gripe is with the scale of the lies and dishonesty involved. People are taken in by spin but yet I've yet to see a single expert in the field give a positive verdict (ones that aren't in on the gravy train that is). Its security will rely mainly on the perception of them being secure - not that that effect is to be underestimated. Even something as poor as handwritten signatures were used for hundreds of years, and they are über carp.