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DimPrawn
22nd September 2008, 11:34
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c79f654-753c-11dd-ab30-0000779fd18c.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/09/22/cntax122.xml

Kingfisher, owner of B&Q, and insurance firm RSA are the latest UK firms to consider moving their headquarters offshore to help save money. Kingfisher is said to be at "an early stage" of examining its tax domicile and has asked its auditor, PricewaterhouseCoopers, to review the possibility. Also, RSA is "considering" moving its tax base to Ireland.

How do you move your tax base to Ireland? What is the tax domicile of a UK Company?

Are we missing a trick here?

AtW
22nd September 2008, 11:37
All tax rates should be harmonised in Europe - plus minutes few percents max. All offshores closed. Then taxation can be gradually reduced.

DiscoStu
22nd September 2008, 11:38
All tax rates should be harmonised in Europe - plus minutes few percents max. All offshores closed. Then taxation can be gradually reduced.

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land sometimes...

DimPrawn
22nd September 2008, 11:38
All tax rates should be harmonised in Europe - plus minutes few percents max. All offshores closed. Then taxation can be gradually reduced.

Thanks for that insightful look into the state controlled communist mind.


:talk::talk::talk::tired:suicide:



Now fook off and make that search engine.

AtW
22nd September 2008, 11:46
You really do live in cloud cuckoo land sometimes...

VAT is harmonised more or less - they do have rather high delta for tax difference allowed for countries, but still it was a way forward.

The whole point of EU is to have level playing field - the key part to it is harmonisation of taxes.

DodgyAgent
22nd September 2008, 11:54
All tax rates should be harmonised in Europe - plus minutes few percents max. All offshores closed. Then taxation can be gradually reduced.


Absolutely not.

each country should be made to compete for the privilige of companies locating themselves in their country. Governments will then be forced to make their business environments competitive, lifestyle attractive (no crime, good schools good health). If like France they attach more importance to civic society at the expense of being "business competitive" let them have the choice. If like Poland they want to attract manufacturing low cost businesses, but with shoddy housing and rusty transport, then let them. If like London they want to attract financial companies with big offices, established trading systems and strong infrastructure then let them.

The last thing our rulers need is a set of rules and taxes that they dont have to do anything for.

AtW
22nd September 2008, 11:57
Absolutely not.

What happens right now is that big companies shift their HQs around to find the lowest tax location - Ireland in this case. That's unfair competition and it will never work well for countries anyway as those HQs will jump from one place to another. As the result Govts have to increase indirect taxation (fuel, beer, smokes etc) on population, that's why people don't have much disposable income and that's why they almost had to get in debt.

BrilloPad
22nd September 2008, 12:01
All tax rates should be harmonised in Europe - plus minutes few percents max. All offshores closed. Then taxation can be gradually reduced.

What ever happening to free market competition?

Oh yes - you don't believe in it! Silly me I forgot....

The Lone Gunman
22nd September 2008, 12:01
What happens right now is that big companies shift their HQs around to find the lowest tax location - Ireland in this case. That's unfair competition and it will never work well for countries anyway as those HQs will jump from one place to another. As the result Govts have to increase indirect taxation (fuel, beer, smokes etc) on population, that's why people don't have much disposable income and that's why they almost had to get in debt.And if it is a blanket across Europe they will relocate outside the EU.

DodgyAgent
22nd September 2008, 12:02
What happens right now is that big companies shift their HQs around to find the lowest tax location - Ireland in this case. That's unfair competition and it will never work well for countries anyway as those HQs will jump from one place to another. As the result Govts have to increase indirect taxation (fuel, beer, smokes etc) on population, that's why people don't have much disposable income and that's why they almost had to get in debt.

Why is it unfair? why is it fair for you to live and work here when you should be back in Russia earning and paying tax there.

AtW
22nd September 2008, 12:04
What ever happening to free market competition?


I am all for free market competition. This requires level playing field. When some company is registered in offshore and operates through local subsidiary which takes on losses (so pays no taxes) where as profits are channeled back to the main offshore based company, then this is unfair competition towards local businesses. Isn't that obvious?

You know guys, you crack me up - "free market" for you is like excuse for anything. Can't you get it that this is the same case as with "free speech" and other "free thingies" - there are some rational limits without which the whole idea will be compromised.


And if it is a blanket across Europe they will relocate outside the EU.

If they want to do business in EU they'd better not.

BrilloPad
22nd September 2008, 12:05
Why is it unfair? why is it fair for you to live and work here when you should be back in Russia earning and paying tax there.

Could we then sever all internet links with Russia?

AtW
22nd September 2008, 12:06
Why is it unfair?

It's unfair because it is not level playing field - we are not talking about 3-5% difference here (which is a lot as many businesses operate on very slim profit marging), but 15-20% or more.


why is it fair for you to live and work here when you should be back in Russia earning and paying tax there.

It's my personal decision. I am a British Citizen and live where I deem necessary, I will pay taxes where I live. What would have been unfair if I paid Russian taxes while living in the UK. How would you have liked if I channeled my company earnings through Ltd in Russia, then applied 12% local Russian flat rate income tax and paid that money back to me while living here, would that be fair? I think not.

AtW
22nd September 2008, 12:07
Could we then sever all internet links with Russia?

I think it's a sensible option given the amount of dodgy crap that comes out of Russia and Govt is turning a blind eye on that - this treatment should apply to Nigeria and some other countries.

DodgyAgent
22nd September 2008, 12:18
It's unfair because it is not level playing field - we are not talking about 3-5% difference here (which is a lot as many businesses operate on very slim profit marging), but 15-20% or more.



It's my personal decision. I am a British Citizen and live where I deem necessary, I will pay taxes where I live. What would have been unfair if I paid Russian taxes while living in the UK. How would you have liked if I channeled my company earnings through Ltd in Russia, then applied 12% local Russian flat rate income tax and paid that money back to me while living here, would that be fair? I think not.

Why is it OK for you to pick and choose where you work and who you pay taxes, but not OK for a company to do the same?

AtW
22nd September 2008, 12:21
Why is it OK for you to pick and choose where you work and who you pay taxes, but not OK for a company to do the same?

Last post for now - because I pay taxes where I live and work, companies want to sell in the UK and other markets but pay taxes as if they were located in Cayman Islands and such.

You would have had a point if I dodged taxation by using my other citizenship and channeling money through Russia - I don't do that. Similiarly if I moved back to Russia I'd expect to pay taxes there rather than in the UK - that's pretty fair attitude.

ratewhore
22nd September 2008, 12:32
Are we missing a trick here?

Probably. How do I do that with my Ltd?

DimPrawn
22nd September 2008, 12:34
Probably. How do I do that with my Ltd?

Exactly.

How do you change the domicile of a ltd?

tim123
22nd September 2008, 12:37
Last post for now - because I pay taxes where I live and work,

And so do companies.

The point is that these are multinational companies with worldwide income.

It is the traetment of this income from other countries that HMG is seeking to tax in a way that the companies don't like

tim

bobhope
22nd September 2008, 13:30
Exactly.

How do you change the domicile of a ltd?

You don't. Just create a new DimPrawn(Ireland) Ltd and off you go.

BrilloPad
22nd September 2008, 13:34
You don't. Just create a new DimPrawn(Ireland) Ltd and off you go.

And how will HMRC view this? Presumably they will be quite happy for DP to pay tax offshore for income earned onshore....

(see the bn66 thread).

lilelvis2000
22nd September 2008, 13:40
Would you not just invoice from Ireland? isn't that enough.

Dow Jones
22nd September 2008, 13:41
See, the rules they apply for Ltd Cos is that you should be based where you mainly earn your income. Fair enough, but what happens if RSA (Royal & Sun Alliance), a large plc whose policyholders are mainly UK-based, decides to relocate in Ireland or another part of Europe? Albeit part of EU, hence legal? Or maybe borderline 'tax avoidance'?

Peoplesoft bloke
22nd September 2008, 14:41
See, the rules they apply for Ltd Cos is that you should be based where you mainly earn your income. Fair enough, but what happens if RSA (Royal & Sun Alliance), a large plc whose policyholders are mainly UK-based, decides to relocate in Ireland or another part of Europe? Albeit part of EU, hence legal? Or maybe borderline 'tax avoidance'?

This would be no different from people buying insurance from an Irish Company (which presumably happens). If policyholders don't like it, they can buy from someone UK-based. Most insurers seem to be foreign owned and/or multinational anyway.