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View Full Version : How much would you earn as a permie?



d000hg
26th September 2008, 20:05
We had a discussion recently "how much would it take for you to go permie". Well, forget that. I'm wondering what people think they could realistically get in the area they normally work. If you are happy to say your typical contact rate as well that's be great.

THe 'rule' I've heard is that contractors generally make about twice what their emplyed counterparts do. That's basically where I am. My last job was for £27K which I considered quite good in the North East, my hourly rates work out at just over £200 per day and I'm projecting gross company profit of £55-60K.

lexington_spurs
26th September 2008, 20:30
We had a discussion recently "how much would it take for you to go permie". Well, forget that. I'm wondering what people think they could realistically get in the area they normally work. If you are happy to say your typical contact rate as well that's be great.

THe 'rule' I've heard is that contractors generally make about twice what their emplyed counterparts do. That's basically where I am. My last job was for £27K which I considered quite good in the North East, my hourly rates work out at just over £200 per day and I'm projecting gross company profit of £55-60K.

do you know it's Christmas time?

basshead
26th September 2008, 20:58
My last job was for £27K which I considered quite good in the North East, my hourly rates work out at just over £200 per day and I'm projecting gross company profit of £55-60K.

I left my 40k job in the NE where I felt undervalued to go contracting, and now make considerably more than yow ;)

In the NE I don't think a good techie could make more than 50k without lowering themselves into management. :)

lilelvis2000
26th September 2008, 23:05
£55K - are you working the full 52 weeks without a break or a holiday?

I usually calculate for about 43 working weeks a year. so that's £43,000 gross. minus your salary, minus expenses and minus taxes...

FarmerPalmer
27th September 2008, 08:07
I was always told that

hourly rate * 1000 = permie salary

I left a permie job last year and got a contract of

rate = (salary / 1000) - 12

:o

but then I didn't go back to contracting for the money
I went back for the job security ;)

I couldn't match my permie package in the contract market.

Fred Bloggs
27th September 2008, 11:03
I would get about £39 to £45k permie in the NW. My current rate is in the £40 to £45/hr region and I plan on 44 weeks a year generally. IME generally rates in the NE (Teesside) compared to the NW (Manchester) are usually about £3 or £4 per hour lower, that's in Engineering BTW.

VectraMan
27th September 2008, 11:31
I'd hope to get £45K. Unfortunately when I've had a look at the permie jobs on offer they're often more like £30K, which means I'm probably too old and over-qualified. If £30K was all I could get, I'd rather work in a factory to pay the bills and put all my effort into the plan B. I'm not going to try hard for somebody else for only £30K.

Fred Bloggs
27th September 2008, 11:34
I'd hope to get £45K. Unfortunately when I've had a look at the permie jobs on offer they're often more like £30K, which means I'm probably too old and over-qualified. If £30K was all I could get, I'd rather work in a factory to pay the bills and put all my effort into the plan B. I'm not going to try hard for somebody else for only £30K.Work out how much £45k is take home on PAYE these Brownian days. Very, very depressing :frown

d000hg
27th September 2008, 11:36
£55K - are you working the full 52 weeks without a break or a holiday?

I usually calculate for about 43 working weeks a year. so that's £43,000 gross. minus your salary, minus expenses and minus taxes...I'm assuming 50 weeks. Taking into account I sometimes work 50-60 hours a week and get some small but higher-rate jobs, >£50 is projected. If Abbey's online business portal wasn't so very basic I could do a quick check for accuracy...

d000hg
27th September 2008, 11:38
Work out how much £45k is take home on PAYE these Brownian days. Very, very depressing :frownHas it changed much since Labour came to power? I thought the rates and thresholds had been relatively stable, and the UK higher-rate of income tax is lower than many EU countries?

scooterscot
27th September 2008, 13:59
Work out how much £45k is take home on PAYE these Brownian days. Very, very depressing :frown

£2700 a month is depressing?

What do you do with it?!!

downsouth
27th September 2008, 14:52
£2700 a month is depressing?

What do you do with it?!!

Exactly, in permie world it might sound low but one thing to remember is that even with a month off sick you would still get £2700, naff all if you contracting

I know what I would rather be doing, counting the cash rather than worrying you've lost £XXK cos you aint worked

I've seen a lot of bravado in the contracting world, bragging of rates and all of them have gone back into permie world cos they cant stand the void periods between gigs

Personally I'd be looking at salaries in the £55K-65K region for my sector, but very often they are mgmnt positions, which aint for some

shoes
27th September 2008, 15:08
I've seen a lot of bravado in the contracting world, bragging of rates and all of them have gone back into permie world cos they cant stand the void periods between gigs


I can't stand the gig periods between voids.

chris79
27th September 2008, 15:42
£2700 a month is depressing?

What do you do with it?!!

Anyone who finds £2700 a month depressing either has a high standard of living, or mis-manages money.

Sysman
27th September 2008, 16:41
Anyone who finds £2700 a month depressing either has a high standard of living, or mis-manages money.

It's certainly depressing for those of us who got used to saving that amount a month.

Fred Bloggs
27th September 2008, 20:21
Has it changed much since Labour came to power? I thought the rates and thresholds had been relatively stable, and the UK higher-rate of income tax is lower than many EU countries?
2 words. National Insurance.

Fred Bloggs
27th September 2008, 20:22
£2700 a month is depressing?

What do you do with it?!!I don't. I earn double that as a contractor :laugh

scooterscot
27th September 2008, 22:48
I don't. I earn double that as a contractor :laugh

Usually I clear five figures every month, but my out-goings are never near that quoted that's why I've already taken 4 months RnR already this year.

Being a contractor has taught me to watch how every penny is spent an attitude that did not register when being a permie.

chicane
27th September 2008, 23:51
Anyone who finds £2700 a month depressing either has a high standard of living, or mis-manages money.

Or has bought a house in a non chav infested area in the last 12 months.

NickFitz
28th September 2008, 02:33
Of course, the question is itself pernicious in that it assumes that there is a difference between being employed by a company that happens to be owned by oneself and a company that happens to be owned by others.

If you're a contractor because you want to be in business for yourself, then you are a permy - you have accepted a permanent position in your own business.

If you're a contractor because you want a few tax breaks, but will immediately return to ownership by another, wagging your tail, if the price is right... well, then you earn what you deserve. Or rather, what somebody else thinks you deserve.

FWIW, I am worthless, but also priceless. Wage slaves won't understand this, others will.

Old Greg
28th September 2008, 10:43
I'd expect 50k in the public sector - with a juicy pension on top. Perhaps an extra 5 - 10k in the private sector.

Churchill
28th September 2008, 10:50
My income is solely dependant on my performance.

If I successfully build up the company I shall be amply rewarded. If not then it will have been fun trying!

Tingles
28th September 2008, 11:00
Thought for the day.....

"You are only worth what you think you are......"




T

Fred Bloggs
28th September 2008, 11:30
Actually, if what I had to spend every month was identical both permie and contract, I think I'd still choose to contract. The freedom I have from management bullsh!t is priceless. I was a permie wage slave for 30 years before I realised that.

Liability
28th September 2008, 11:51
I am currently doing the same after 10+ years of Contracting

I am looking at £100-£120k packages as for me to get where Id like to I now need a Perm role.

Not an easy choice when you compare financials but its one that can pay off.

Just means I gota hack it for 3+ years.

YHB
28th September 2008, 16:00
my hourly rates work out at just over £200 per day and I'm projecting gross company profit of £55-60K.

Why oh why doesn't everyone say no to £200 a day. When you consider the risks involved if you are taken long term sick etc thats peanuts.

Basic Access database work can get you £300 a day min up north....

Bob Dalek
28th September 2008, 17:36
Why oh why doesn't everyone say no to £200 a day. When you consider the risks involved if you are taken long term sick etc thats peanuts.

Basic Access database work can get you £300 a day min up north....

Permie:
Off sick: Paid!
On holiday: Paid!
Employer Pension contribs.: Possibly!
Perks: Training, redundancy pay, promotion: Yes/Probably!

Whore:
Off sick: Not Paid!
On holiday: Not Paid!
Employer Pension contribs.: No!
Perks: None worth talking about.
Let go any day Client likes: Yes
Risking the Bench: Yes
Dealing with Pimps: Every new gig.

TheBigYinJames
28th September 2008, 18:39
If I went on what clueless agencies phone up and try to offer, I expect I must be worth £28k to do .Net in the City on a permanent basis (usually for 'this exciting cutting edge technology company'). I often point out to them that Oxford Street burger flippers get more than that, but then I have recently started putting NOT CONSIDERING PERM ROLES in big red letters at the top of my CV, so I don't get them so much.

Old Greg
28th September 2008, 19:04
If I went on what clueless agencies phone up and try to offer, I expect I must be worth £28k to do .Net in the City on a permanent basis (usually for 'this exciting cutting edge technology company'). I often point out to them that Oxford Street burger flippers get more than that, but then I have recently started putting NOT CONSIDERING PERM ROLES in big red letters at the top of my CV, so I don't get them so much.

28k as a burger flipper? The world is less kind than that.

Bumfluff
28th September 2008, 19:25
£75k plus bonus, current gig asked me what I would be after I told them £80k plus bonus and they were fine with that, but thats central London so sounds alot but all relative, cost of living etc and low level management role.

d000hg
28th September 2008, 19:57
Why oh why doesn't everyone say no to £200 a day. When you consider the risks involved if you are taken long term sick etc thats peanuts.

Basic Access database work can get you £300 a day min up north....I work as a freelancer with clients I find myself, and I'm not prepared to commute. Plus I do a lot of game development work.

I've yet to find £300 or higher as a remote worker but I am looking, if it's so easy feel free to PM me where to find this easy money. However, I am still on ~2X my last permie salary (I'm only 26).

DS23
29th September 2008, 08:16
i am sure i could work for one of the big consulting firms and would expect a starting point of 75k but i would be doing exactly the same job as i do now but wearing their uncomfortable clothes and presenting their vapid powerpoints. i'd have do drop everything and get on a plane at their beck and call. i'd have to sell their solutions to clients regardless of the suitablity. etc. etc.

"i'm a million miles away from that helecopter day
no, i don't believe i'll be going back that way."

Wilmslow
29th September 2008, 11:16
We had a discussion recently "how much would it take for you to go permie". Well, forget that. I'm wondering what people think they could realistically get in the area they normally work. If you are happy to say your typical contact rate as well that's be great.

THe 'rule' I've heard is that contractors generally make about twice what their emplyed counterparts do. That's basically where I am. My last job was for £27K which I considered quite good in the North East, my hourly rates work out at just over £200 per day and I'm projecting gross company profit of £55-60K.

My permie job earns more than your contract position, based on 45 week year at £200 per day!

Not that I want to piss on your chips.....

Wilmslow
29th September 2008, 11:17
My income is solely dependant on my performance.

If I successfully build up the company I shall be amply rewarded. If not then it will have been fun trying!

That has to be the most aspirational post ever. Scott Adams will be proud of this dog!

DiscoStu
29th September 2008, 11:22
My permie job earns more than your contract position, based on 45 week year at £200 per day!

Not that I want to piss on your chips.....

And look how much you enjoy it. Every post is a whinge about something or other :eyes

Oh, and :spel shoes :laugh

Wilmslow
29th September 2008, 11:26
And look how much you enjoy it. Every post is a whinge about something or other :eyes

Oh, and :spel shoes :laugh

True, I always whinge though. Hate the commute, but love the flexible hours and the variety. Was talking to a young lass talking about boning lines in an abatoir the other day, that was a definate highlight of the meeting!

d000hg
29th September 2008, 11:29
My permie job earns more than your contract position, based on 45 week year at £200 per day!

Not that I want to piss on your chips.....Am I supposed to be impressed? It's 2X what I got in my permie job, why should I care you earn more than that? If I could get to the equivalent of £300-400 p/d (£35-50) that's more than I ever expected to make, since I was never prepared to work the career ladder and relocate for a cushy job.

DieScum
29th September 2008, 11:31
I'm permie at the moment. Including car allowance and pension the package is 70k.

Another thing that is in the back of my mind is redundancy. For every year I work then thats another 5k tax free redundancy pay in the pot. Obviously that isn't guaranteed and it is only tax free up to 30k... but it is something to think about.

It seems more likely for me that I'll launch myself back in to the contracting world after picking up the redundancy pot.

Torran
29th September 2008, 11:36
Was talking to a young lass talking about boning in an abatoir !

ooo kinky

SallyAnne
29th September 2008, 11:41
I'm on £400 per day in the North East, and the permie lads I'm working with are all on just under £30k.

They also once a month have to work on call, and get paid, no word of a lie, £50 for a call out, plus double time for the time it takes, but if no call out (which is most of the time) they onl get a £10 per day on call allowance!!!!

So can you imagine having to give up a Saturday (drink wise) just for a tenner?!!!! You couldn't havea drink AT ALL, or even on the Friday actaully, cause your on call starts at 12:01am! For a tenner!!!!

I nearly fell off my seat when they told me.

When I went permie at Accenture a few years back I got a starting salary of about £37, and when I handed my notice in they offerred me a promotion, which would have put me on £45ish....I doubt I'd get that wage anywhere else other than a horrible consultancy like them.

I can't see me ever giving up the contracting world.

expat
29th September 2008, 11:54
...Accenture a few years back I got a starting salary of about £37, and when I handed my notice in they offerred me a promotion, which would have put me on £45ish....I doubt I'd get that wage anywhere else other than a horrible consultancy like them.

I can't see me ever giving up the contracting world.That's my feeling: decent contracting rate, miserly perm salary, or work for awful consultancy and get not-quite-so-miserly salary, but it's basically contracting without the choices; and the % cut that they take would give you a warm fuzzy feeling about the dodgiest of agents.

scooterscot
29th September 2008, 12:27
What happened to ma Swedish post...

Just spent the morning having my body smothered in essential oils by some young blonde lady. 80 minutes of bliss so it was.

What permies do that on a Monday morning?

FarmerPalmer
29th September 2008, 14:24
Dec 1999 I was on £28ph and the client offered me a permanent offer at £32K + bonus & benefits package,

I said I'd take but asked to defer it til April 2000.

By the time I joined they had upped the offer to £36K + bonus & benefits package.

Last Summer I was on £46K + bonus & benefits package at the same position.

I took Voluntary Redundancy, and got a contract at £34ph.

Could my £34ph be used to provide the same as my permanent package

Err ... NO ! :o

schindler
29th September 2008, 15:11
[QUOTE=SallyAnne;640159]I'm on £400 per day ....


Hmmm Oracle Apps rates have dropped is'nt it?? :emb

DieScum
29th September 2008, 16:19
Sally - Are the guys earning 30k doing the same work as you on 400 a day?