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Fairly New graduate
29th September 2008, 10:04
I have been performing a BA role for about 3-4 months now, this is my first job out of university and its been a very slow start. I am thinking of further qualifications to give me a more rounded exposure to the industry and I was thinking of joining the BCS and undertaking their professional examinations. As I already hold a degree would this be benefit with regards to my next job, gaining knowledge/experience and eventually contracting or would a masters in something along the lines of information systems be better? The only problem with masters is the actual cost.

Thanks for your help and any input would be greatly appreciated.

chris79
29th September 2008, 12:29
Get some experience then complement it with a Masters, or with some certs. Those alone on their own probably won't hold up in the contract market without experience to back it up.

I've got both experience and qualifications and whenever I go for interviews 95% of the focus is on previous experience and previous roles. The certs/degrees just give them an indication you can work at a certain level, or can double back things up... don't expect them to be blown away by qualifications standing on their own.

DiscoStu
29th September 2008, 12:30
I have been performing a BA role for about 3-4 months now, this is my first job out of university and its been a very slow start. I am thinking of further qualifications to give me a more rounded exposure to the industry and I was thinking of joining the BCS and undertaking their professional examinations. As I already hold a degree would this be benefit with regards to my next job, gaining knowledge/experience and eventually contracting or would a masters in something along the lines of information systems be better? The only problem with masters is the actual cost.

Thanks for your help and any input would be greatly appreciated.

One of the unpublished joining conditions of the BCS is having a beard with food stuck in it.

HTH

badger7579
29th September 2008, 12:45
Get some experience then complement it with a Masters, or with some certs. Those alone on their own probably won't hold up in the contract market without experience to back it up.

I've got both experience and qualifications and whenever I go for interviews 95% of the focus is on previous experience and previous roles. The certs/degrees just give them an indication you can work at a certain level, or can double back things up... don't expect them to be blown away by qualifications standing on their own.

WHS. These are just ticks In the boxes. You need experience to back paper quals up. As said above in interview it's experience clients want to know about.

Ruprect
29th September 2008, 12:46
One of the unpublished joining conditions of the BCS is having a beard with food stuck in it.

HTH

I thought that rule only applied to the women :confused:

DodgyAgent
29th September 2008, 13:01
I have been performing a BA role for about 3-4 months now, this is my first job out of university and its been a very slow start. I am thinking of further qualifications to give me a more rounded exposure to the industry and I was thinking of joining the BCS and undertaking their professional examinations. As I already hold a degree would this be benefit with regards to my next job, gaining knowledge/experience and eventually contracting or would a masters in something along the lines of information systems be better? The only problem with masters is the actual cost.

Thanks for your help and any input would be greatly appreciated.

Dont waste your time. If you are a business analyst you shhould understand everything that you do from the business point of view. Stick a BCS badge on your Cv or your "jacket" and you will be instantly branded as someone who cares more about computers than what they are supposed to be used for.

Bob Dalek
29th September 2008, 13:49
Dont waste your time. If you are a business analyst you shhould understand everything that you do from the business point of view. Stick a BCS badge on your Cv or your "jacket" and you will be instantly branded as someone who cares more about computers than what they are supposed to be used for.

WHS. The BCS is nothing, and I mean nothing... other than Fritzl-wannabes who can trot-out the entire ASCII table and make up limericks about binary and hex... and who all worship Clive Sinclair.

Fairly New graduate
29th September 2008, 14:02
Thanks for the advice, all very good points. I do understand what you mean about the BSC, any other quls people would recommend at this time in my career as well as gaining experience, I may just take golf lessons and a wine tasting course to fill my time now then!

Spacecadet
29th September 2008, 14:08
Thanks for the advice, all very good points. I do understand what you mean about the BSC, any other quls people would recommend at this time in my career as well as gaining experience, I may just take golf lessons and a wine tasting course to fill my time now then!

Work hard!
try and get involved in any new projects

You've probably already noticed that in any working environment 20% of the staff are credited for 80% of the work
Make sure you're in that 20% group :cool:

Bob Dalek
29th September 2008, 14:11
Work hard!
try and get involved in any new projects

You've probably already noticed that in any working environment 20% of the staff are credited for 80% of the work
Make sure you're in that 20% group :cool:

Sad, but true.

If you really, really want to get on, then kiss ass all day long and work until others have gone home and don't take a day off sick and always, ABOVE ALL OTHER THINGS, attend the stupid, suicide-inducing, tragically naff and mind numbing social events... all of 'em. I don't - but then I'm a DBA and nobody wants me down the pub with them.

chef
29th September 2008, 14:43
... and who all worship Clive Sinclair.

hold on now.. i'm not having that.. Clive is a good man .. i'd not be the geek i am today if it wasn't for my ZX Spectrum 128k+2, no sarcasm or nasty remarks towards Sir Clive

Chef

Bob Dalek
29th September 2008, 14:48
hold on now.. i'm not having that.. Clive is a good man .. i'd not be the geek i am today if it wasn't for my ZX Spectrum 128k+2, no sarcasm or nasty remarks towards Sir Clive

Chef

Clive's a nonce, and everyone knows it.

As for the ZX Spectrum 128k+2: my BBC Acorn wiped the floor with it, which is why I am now not having to consider working in the arctic climes of Scandinavia, but, rather, the sunny environs of sainted Hammersmith! :rollin:

Churchill
29th September 2008, 14:53
Clive's a nonce, and everyone knows it.

As for the ZX Spectrum 128k+2: my BBC Acorn wiped the floor with it, which is why I am now not having to consider working in the arctic climes of Scandinavia, but, rather, the sunny environs of sainted Hammersmith! :rollin:

The Z80A:bang: is a far superior processor to the 6502!:throw:

Bob Dalek
29th September 2008, 15:11
The Z80A:bang: is a far superior processor to the 6502!:throw:

Maybe it was the speccy's rubber buttons, or Jeff Minter's camel-infested silly games that made me hate it?

Churchill
29th September 2008, 15:21
Maybe it was the speccy's rubber buttons, or Jeff Minter's camel-infested silly games that made me hate it?

Jeff Minter is a nice guy. Even though he does have a penchant for Yaks and other large woolly mammals!:happy

Tokenised Basic was the real problem with the speccy as far as I'm concerned. However, there's some sexy code in the ROM, particularly some of the maths stuff!

Ruprect
29th September 2008, 15:31
Surely Bob you're bordering on Libel!

bogeyman
29th September 2008, 15:42
The Z80A:bang: is a far superior processor to the 6502!:throw:

Completely dissagree old dog.

If anything, the 6502 was the first RISC chip. The Z80 series as an 8080 with a load of cobbled-on old tat.

LDA
LDX
LDY

Ahhh :happy

Bob Dalek
29th September 2008, 15:51
Surely Bob you're bordering on Libel!

Essex, actually.

Bob Dalek
29th September 2008, 15:53
Completely dissagree old dog.

If anything, the 6502 was the first RISC chip. The Z80 series as an 8080 with a load of cobbled-on old tat.

LDA
LDX
LDY

Ahhh :happy

WHS... I think.

NickFitz
29th September 2008, 19:52
Completely dissagree old dog.

If anything, the 6502 was the first RISC chip. The Z80 series as an 8080 with a load of cobbled-on old tat.

LDA
LDX
LDY

Ahhh :happy

When I was writing games for a living we subcontracted some work to a bloke who claimed to be an ace C64 programmer.

See if you can spot the main problem with this fine bit of code he came up with:



.add100points
LDX #100
.loop
CLC
LDA scorelo
ADC #1
STA scorelo
LDA scorehi
ADC #0
STA scorehi
DEX
BNE loop
RTS


:rolleyes:

BrilloPad
29th September 2008, 20:31
When I was writing games for a living we subcontracted some work to a bloke who claimed to be an ace C64 programmer.

See if you can spot the main problem with this fine bit of code he came up with:



.add100points
LDX #100
.loop
CLC
LDA scorelo
ADC #1
STA scorelo
LDA scorehi
ADC #0
STA scorehi
DEX
BNE loop
RTS


:rolleyes:

No comments? :laugh

NickFitz
29th September 2008, 20:32
No comments? :laugh

It certainly left all of us speechless :laugh

aussielong
29th September 2008, 21:49
No comments? :laugh

I'll bite. Doesn't it do a loop of 100 "+1"s just to add 100 to scorelo? Why not just add 100, instead of adding 1, 100 times? Aswell as adding 0 to a number, 100 times!

bogeyman
29th September 2008, 21:56
When I was writing games for a living we subcontracted some work to a bloke who claimed to be an ace C64 programmer.

See if you can spot the main problem with this fine bit of code he came up with:



.add100points
LDX #100
.loop
CLC
LDA scorelo
ADC #1
STA scorelo
LDA scorehi
ADC #0
STA scorehi
DEX
BNE loop
RTS


:rolleyes:

Ahhh

6502 assembler
Beans on toast for tea
Jumpers for goalposts

For the curious, this hotshot game dev adds 1 to 'scorelo' one hundred times, in a loop. Just to be fair, he adds zero to 'scorehi' while he's at it. Presumably he doesn't know that ADC (add with carry) will accept numbers greater than one, or that 'scorehi' won't feel neglected if you don't also give it some love by adding zero to it 100 times. Note how he carefully clears the carry flag (CLC) for every iteration of the loop.

Presumably the task was to allow for scores >= 255 with the 'lo' and 'hi' bytes representing low and high order bytes of a 16-bit integer. As it stands you'd see your score drop back alarmingly just when you thought you were getting somewhere - like on the Weakest Link when they don't 'bank'.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3NeRoSFZWbs

aussielong
29th September 2008, 22:03
Ahhh

6502 assembler
Beans on toast for tea
Jumpers for goalposts

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3NeRoSFZWbs

I started out writing games on the ZX48 in the mid-80s in BASIC as a hobby. I used to dabble in Z80. I remember being amazed that you could draw in the Border on the Spectrum. Take up the whole screen instead of just the bit inside the border. Last game i played was in about 1990. Those two quid CodeMasters games. Some of them were great! Tape to Tape at my mates house. Get 10 on a C60 cassette! Yes, I did a lot of w*****g back then.

bogeyman
29th September 2008, 22:08
I started out writing games on the ZX48 in the mid-80s in BASIC as a hobby. I used to dabble in Z80. I remember being amazed that you could draw in the Border on the Spectrum. Take up the whole screen instead of just the bit inside the border. Last game i played was in about 1990. Those two quid CodeMasters games. Some of them were great! Tape to Tape at my mates house. Get 10 on a C60 cassette! Yes, I did a lot of w*****g back then.

Ferret? FERRRRRRETTTTTTT!

We have a transgressor!

Pardon my ignorance but what on earth is a ZX48?

Is that some very early, post WWII home computer that Clive Sinclair devised as a lad using left over valves and relays from Bletchley Park?

aussielong
29th September 2008, 22:13
Ferret? FERRRRRRETTTTTTT!

We have a transgressor!

Pardon my ignorance but what on earth is a ZX48?

Is that some very early, post WWII home computer that Clive Sinclair devised as a lad using left over valves and relays from Bletchley Park?

Eh? What's up? You can use that word on Countdown, so why not here?

ZX48K? If that is the correct name? The first Spectrum that was popular. Rubber keys. Joysticks made from two lollipop sticks and a rubber dart stuck to the keys.

bogeyman
29th September 2008, 22:36
Eh? What's up? You can use that word on Countdown, so why not here?

ZX48K? If that is the correct name? The first Spectrum that was popular. Rubber keys. Joysticks made from two lollipop sticks and a rubber dart stuck to the keys.

yer not wrong: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7gBXPUSXGWs

NickFitz
30th September 2008, 03:32
I'll bite. Doesn't it do a loop of 100 "+1"s just to add 100 to scorelo? Why not just add 100, instead of adding 1, 100 times? Aswell as adding 0 to a number, 100 times!

Excellent, apart from the final sentence! It is indeed correct that it should have just been adding the immediate value 100, rather than looping 100 times adding the immediate value 1... but the add-with-carry (hence the mnemonic ADC) of value zero to the high-order byte is correct, to accommodate the case where the low-order byte value overflows from below-or-equal-to 0xFF to above-or-equal-to 0x00 (I'm speaking of the general case here, not the "add 1" situation we see in this example) and the carry from the low-order byte needs to be added to the high-order byte.


Ahhh
6502 assembler
Beans on toast for tea
Jumpers for goalposts


:spel PDP8/e (http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pics/topboards.shtml?med) (YMMV, especially if you've always used microprocessor-based machines)



For the curious, this hotshot game dev adds 1 to 'scorelo' one hundred times, in a loop. Just to be fair, he adds zero to 'scorehi' while he's at it. Presumably he doesn't know that ADC (add with carry) will accept numbers greater than one, or that 'scorehi' won't feel neglected if you don't also give it some love by adding zero to it 100 times. Note how he carefully clears the carry flag (CLC) for every iteration of the loop.

Presumably the task was to allow for scores >= 255 with the 'lo' and 'hi' bytes representing low and high order bytes of a 16-bit integer. As it stands you'd see your score drop back alarmingly just when you thought you were getting somewhere - like on the Weakest Link when they don't 'bank'.


Excellent again! Except that he does need to do the ADC of zero to the high-order byte, as explained above.

You are correct to assume that the score was held as a 16 bit (two byte) value, and that this would mean that scores above 65,535 would roll over to zero + (score - 65,536). However - a constraint that I didn't mention - this was not a problem in this particular game, as (like most games of the era) the score was internally held as a two byte value, but the display of the score had a couple of extra zeroes, that remained constant, on the end. Thus, when adding 100 to the score, it appeared to the player as if their score had increased by 10,000 - smoke and mirrors, but psychologically powerful :D The gameplay was such that no (internal) score as high as 65,536 could ever be achieved, so this was not an issue.

BTW, some early arcade and home computer games were subject to spectacular and/or interesting bugs when internal values overflowed the 255 or 65,535 boundaries because the programmers had underestimated the lengths people would go to in playing these things, but that wasn't the case with this one - it wasn't primarily a point-scoring game, the points in question were only relevant to a round (or level) of the game, and could never reach 65,536.

Given this, we can take the facts that:

a) The 6502 is actually capable of adding 100 to a byte;
b) Therefore, we don't need a loop;
c) Nonetheless, the state of the Carry flag is indeterminate when this subroutine is called;

to achieve:



.add100points
CLC
LDA scorelo
ADC #100
STA scorelo
LDA scorehi
ADC #0
STA scorehi
RTS


FTW :happy

FWIW, the reason we determined very soon that something dodgy was going on with his code was that there was a terrible flicker of the display (it was a pseudo-FPP-driving game) whenever one got the 100-point (== 10, 000 point) bonus - that lovely little loop of his used up nearly half a frame on the C64's 1MHz processor, called from a code block within which interrupts were disabled, which of course played merry hell with the timings :rollin:

Top marks to you both, say I :yay: :nerd :yay:

Bob Dalek
30th September 2008, 05:11
Excellent, apart from the final sentence! It is indeed correct that it should have just been adding the immediate value 100, rather than looping 100 times adding the immediate value 1... but the add-with-carry (hence the mnemonic ADC) of value zero to the high-order byte is correct, to accommodate the case where the low-order byte value overflows from below-or-equal-to 0xFF to above-or-equal-to 0x00 (I'm speaking of the general case here, not the "add 1" situation we see in this example) and the carry from the low-order byte needs to be added to the high-order byte.



:spel PDP8/e (http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pics/topboards.shtml?med) (YMMV, especially if you've always used microprocessor-based machines)



Excellent again! Except that he does need to do the ADC of zero to the high-order byte, as explained above.

You are correct to assume that the score was held as a 16 bit (two byte) value, and that this would mean that scores above 65,535 would roll over to zero + (score - 65,536). However - a constraint that I didn't mention - this was not a problem in this particular game, as (like most games of the era) the score was internally held as a two byte value, but the display of the score had a couple of extra zeroes, that remained constant, on the end. Thus, when adding 100 to the score, it appeared to the player as if their score had increased by 10,000 - smoke and mirrors, but psychologically powerful :D The gameplay was such that no (internal) score as high as 65,536 could ever be achieved, so this was not an issue.

BTW, some early arcade and home computer games were subject to spectacular and/or interesting bugs when internal values overflowed the 255 or 65,535 boundaries because the programmers had underestimated the lengths people would go to in playing these things, but that wasn't the case with this one - it wasn't primarily a point-scoring game, the points in question were only relevant to a round (or level) of the game, and could never reach 65,536.

Given this, we can take the facts that:

a) The 6502 is actually capable of adding 100 to a byte;
b) Therefore, we don't need a loop;
c) Nonetheless, the state of the Carry flag is indeterminate when this subroutine is called;

to achieve:



.add100points
CLC
LDA scorelo
ADC #100
STA scorelo
LDA scorehi
ADC #0
STA scorehi
RTS


FTW :happy

FWIW, the reason we determined very soon that something dodgy was going on with his code was that there was a terrible flicker of the display (it was a pseudo-FPP-driving game) whenever one got the 100-point (== 10, 000 point) bonus - that lovely little loop of his used up nearly half a frame on the C64's 1MHz processor, called from a code block within which interrupts were disabled, which of course played merry hell with the timings :rollin:

Top marks to you both, say I :yay: :nerd :yay:

You have posted a 1986 GCSE Computing paper and I claim my free copy of "Revenge" by The Eurythmics.