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Oh Dear: MI5 says civil liberties have to be eroded

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    Oh Dear: MI5 says civil liberties have to be eroded

    Civil liberties may have to be "eroded" to protect Britons from terrorism, the head of security service MI5 has said.

    In a speech made in the Netherlands on 1 September and put online by MI5, Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller said the world had changed and a debate was needed.

    She said the July London bombings were a "shock", which MI5 and police were "disappointed" they could not prevent.

    But ex-MI5 agent David Shayler said any liberties lost would be hard to regain and could make "martyrs" of terrorists.

    Read On: MI5 head warns on civil liberties
    I'm not sure I accept the premise that in order to protect me from something more unlikely than winning the lottery or being knocked over crossing the road, my civil liberties have to be eroded. Maybe we should erode civil liberties in order to protect people from being struck by lightning? Control orders for anyone with the temerity to venture outside during a storm perhaps?

    Feel free to discuss, ignore, or abuse Chico. In deference to Franco's feelings, I would politely ask you not to abuse him over this article (he lives not far from me and I wouldn't want him pushing human excrement through my letterbox or anything like that).

    #2
    She should have been asked straight -- eroding which precise liberties would have helped prevent 7/7?

    Its load of bull -- they listen to ALL phones, nothing requires to use this info in court -- if they intercepted information on preparation of a major attack, then wait until they buy chemicals and bust them when they are building bombs, or when they gather to go actually blow them up. Mere fact of arresting people with racksacks full of explosives should be enough to secure conviction in pretty much any court.

    Comment


      #3
      Agreed, AtW. People who make loose statements like that have to be vigorously challenged otherwise we sleepwalk our way into a police state. Any argument that relies on someone saying anything like "I can't say because it would jeopardise security" has to be dismissed outright.

      Comment


        #4
        liberties

        well, this is bull, civil liberties were never eroded during the IRA era (when they were still active). THe IRA bombed victoria station and such places.

        the new terrorism powers have already been misused against (certainly not terrorist, maybe a nuisance for Mr Blair) demonstrators in edinburgh.

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          #5
          Lucifer Box: MI5 has been a political organ for some time now. Live with it.

          It is truely sad that well over 1000 years of struggle by the common man are now being subverted by a party that purports to be for the common man.
          Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
          threadeds website, and here's my blog.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by sappatz
            the new terrorism powers have already been misused against (certainly not terrorist, maybe a nuisance for Mr Blair) demonstrators in edinburgh.
            Also misused to prevent legitimate, peaceful demonstrations in and around parliament, even on the opposite south bank.

            Threaded: I think taking the attitude of "just live with it" will only quicken our progress down that slippery slope. It maybe that all most of can do is futilely say, "hey, hang on a minute there, I don't like the sound of that", but we owe it to those who fought and died for the liberties the current government is riding roughshod over to at least say so.

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              #7
              Originally posted by sappatz
              well, this is bull, civil liberties were never eroded during the IRA era (when they were still active). THe IRA bombed victoria station and such places.
              I think the difference is that IRA's first priority was to keep the bomber's life alive and also they did not want too negative PR of having lots civilians killed -- they gave warnings which provided some kind of balance making them more "acceptable" in eyes of some people.

              Suicide bombing for mass civilian casualties changes things big time. Additionally IRA seems to have had central leadership not far away, where as suicide bombings done by cells that get wiped out in the act. They don't even need central leadership to contact them per se -- just get a bomb and blow yourself up in the name of Islam or whatever.

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                #8
                Ira

                well, the ira bombing of victoria station was a big mess.

                i remember other bombings when the ira was on rampage, i was myself very close to an IRA bomb detonation in London once in the early 90s.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by sappatz
                  i remember other bombings when the ira was on rampage, i was myself very close to an IRA bomb detonation in London once in the early 90s.
                  Still, you gotto admit that its much scarier to know there are people who happlily blow themselfes up in crowded tube trains than anything IRA did before?

                  At least IRA had leadership not far from here and those who would go to commit crime will stay alive, thus allowing justice to take its course.

                  Its not the case now, thats why special services are worried.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by threaded
                    It is truely sad that well over 1000 years of struggle by the common man are now being subverted by a party that purports to be for the common man.
                    Twas ever thus - Idealistic young people, and older people who should know better, assume that socialism is "nice" because socialists claim to represent the common man, and redistribute other peoples' money, and the libertarian right is "nasty" because their belief in letting people get on with it with a minimum of interference is indifference or worse.
                    Work in the public sector? Read the IR35 FAQ here

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