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Hedge Funds lose £24bn as VW shares take off

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    Hedge Funds lose £24bn as VW shares take off

    Hedge Funds lose £24bn as VW shares take off

    Hedge funds have lost as much as €30bn (£24bn) short selling carmaker Volkswagen after the shares soared on the revelation that rival Porsche had secured 74pc of the equity and planned to seize control of its rival.

    The €30bn hit is thought to be one of the heaviest losses on a single company's shares ever taken by hedge funds, which have already been hit hard by the turmoil in the markets.

    "This is without question the biggest single loss on a single stock in the history of hedge funds. It's a bloodbath," said Laurie Pinto, a broker at North Square Capital, a division of Winterflood.

    Porsche's disclosure on Sunday that it held 74pc of the car maker – rather than the previously assumed 42.6pc – prompted a huge scramble to cover short positions (AtW's comment: short positions of this nature should attract very long jail sentences) in Volkswagen, which had been the most shorted stock in Germany's benchmark DAX index.

    With less than 6pc of the shares available to buy, VW soared as high as €1,005 in early trading yesterday, having already tripled in value on Monday. The shares, which closed at €210 on Friday, ended the day at €945.

    One hedge fund said: "There have been some dark moments over the past few months but none blacker than this. We couldn't have dreamt a worse scenario."

    The rise put a price tag of €296bn ($369bn) on Volkswagen at its peak, making it the world's largest company, ahead of oil company ExxonMobil.

    "The German stock exchange has become a joke," said Andy Brough, a fund manager at Schroders. (AtW's comment: no Andy, the exchange is fine, it is your buddies in funds who are a joke, only it's not a funny one.)

    Hedge funds had staked hundreds of millions of euros on VW shares falling in line with other car makers – short selling the equivalent of 13pc of the company's shares.

    As well as the hedge funds, investment banks' proprietary desks are also believed to have short sold Volkswagen shares.

    Shares in German banks fell amid speculation in the market that many of them were exposed to the fall out.

    Morgan Stanley shares tumbled 12pc, forcing the bank to issue a statement stating that it did not have any exposure to VW. Goldman Sachs fell 6pc amid similar concerns of contamination.

    Meanwhile, analysts claimed that Porsche had profited from the turmoil, sparking even more fury among traders. (AtW's comment: those guys are cracking me up - Porsche unlike them is actually doing useful stuff and so is VW, if they make profit from this activity it's fair play )

    Max Warburton, an analyst at Sanford Bernstein, claimed that the company had benefited not just from the rise in the share price but behind the scenes as the traders sought to unwind their positions.

    In a note to clients, Mr Warburton said: "Porsche is making billions from this game – lending stock, buying then selling back, plus puts." He added: "This represents a breakdown in [the German] regulatory function in our view."

    Porsche vehemently rejected the accusations. "The ones responsible are those that speculated with huge sums of money on a falling Volkswagen share price," said a spokesman.

    German regulator Bafin has announced that it is looking at the VW share movement to see if any insider trading or market manipulation had taken place, but has not yet launched an official investigation.

    ---

    Look, it's simple - the only profits that should be made from shares is when they go up or when they pay dividends, it should not be possible at all to make any money on falling shares - if they fall it should mean you lose money, unless you choose to stick with them long term. If this simple rule (and a couple more regarding debt limits) was followed we would not get into current mess. Of course this would mean 99% of hedge funds will close, but I think it's the price the society can afford to pay, eh?

    #2
    They who live by the sword etcetc.

    This could accelerate the process of hedge fund closures....

    Comment


      #3
      I'm not sure you understand capitalism if you want short selling banned.

      Or maybe you do, but only in the same way that Gordon Brown understands it.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by bobhope View Post
        I'm not sure you understand capitalism if you want short selling banned.

        Or maybe you do, but only in the same way that Gordon Brown understands it.
        I dont want short selling banned. But, to my mind, the growth (of numbers and profits) of hedge funds indicates a skewed market. Doesn't seem to be capatilism if a one way street?

        Sorry but I am quite enjoying the VW situation.

        Reminds me of situation 10/15 years ago when a new bond coming out - was being traded in grey market and expected to dive. The issuer realized there were sell orders for 110% of the bonds being issued - so just pulled the plug on it. caused chaos....

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by bobhope View Post
          I'm not sure you understand capitalism if you want short selling banned.

          Or maybe you do, but only in the same way that Gordon Brown understands it.
          Nice one Bob, thought you were dead.

          I would think hedge funds represent a more balanced market. Anyway, I'm sure they will be regulated, to death!
          Gordon will sort it all out.
          Bored.

          Comment


            #6
            The problem is the Hedge funds are now too big. If you're a small investor you can take advantage of sell or buy opportunity without affecting the market too much. These days the speculators hold as much as the real shareholders, basically means this short selling lark don't work anymore because too many funds are trying to do the same thing.

            As long as they don't lose everyone else's money that's fine, but some of them borrow huge amounts. The hedge funds need to be made transparent.
            I'm alright Jack

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by AtW View Post
              Hedge Funds lose £24bn as VW shares take off

              Hedge funds have lost as much as €30bn (£24bn) short selling carmaker Volkswagen after the shares soared on the revelation that rival Porsche had secured 74pc of the equity and planned to seize control of its rival.

              The €30bn hit is thought to be one of the heaviest losses on a single company's shares ever taken by hedge funds, which have already been hit hard by the turmoil in the markets.

              "This is without question the biggest single loss on a single stock in the history of hedge funds. It's a bloodbath," said Laurie Pinto, a broker at North Square Capital, a division of Winterflood.

              Porsche's disclosure on Sunday that it held 74pc of the car maker – rather than the previously assumed 42.6pc – prompted a huge scramble to cover short positions (AtW's comment: short positions of this nature should attract very long jail sentences) in Volkswagen, which had been the most shorted stock in Germany's benchmark DAX index.

              With less than 6pc of the shares available to buy, VW soared as high as €1,005 in early trading yesterday, having already tripled in value on Monday. The shares, which closed at €210 on Friday, ended the day at €945.

              One hedge fund said: "There have been some dark moments over the past few months but none blacker than this. We couldn't have dreamt a worse scenario."

              The rise put a price tag of €296bn ($369bn) on Volkswagen at its peak, making it the world's largest company, ahead of oil company ExxonMobil.

              "The German stock exchange has become a joke," said Andy Brough, a fund manager at Schroders. (AtW's comment: no Andy, the exchange is fine, it is your buddies in funds who are a joke, only it's not a funny one.)

              Hedge funds had staked hundreds of millions of euros on VW shares falling in line with other car makers – short selling the equivalent of 13pc of the company's shares.

              As well as the hedge funds, investment banks' proprietary desks are also believed to have short sold Volkswagen shares.

              Shares in German banks fell amid speculation in the market that many of them were exposed to the fall out.

              Morgan Stanley shares tumbled 12pc, forcing the bank to issue a statement stating that it did not have any exposure to VW. Goldman Sachs fell 6pc amid similar concerns of contamination.

              Meanwhile, analysts claimed that Porsche had profited from the turmoil, sparking even more fury among traders. (AtW's comment: those guys are cracking me up - Porsche unlike them is actually doing useful stuff and so is VW, if they make profit from this activity it's fair play )

              Max Warburton, an analyst at Sanford Bernstein, claimed that the company had benefited not just from the rise in the share price but behind the scenes as the traders sought to unwind their positions.

              In a note to clients, Mr Warburton said: "Porsche is making billions from this game – lending stock, buying then selling back, plus puts." He added: "This represents a breakdown in [the German] regulatory function in our view."

              Porsche vehemently rejected the accusations. "The ones responsible are those that speculated with huge sums of money on a falling Volkswagen share price," said a spokesman.

              German regulator Bafin has announced that it is looking at the VW share movement to see if any insider trading or market manipulation had taken place, but has not yet launched an official investigation.

              ---

              Look, it's simple - the only profits that should be made from shares is when they go up or when they pay dividends, it should not be possible at all to make any money on falling shares - if they fall it should mean you lose money, unless you choose to stick with them long term. If this simple rule (and a couple more regarding debt limits) was followed we would not get into current mess. Of course this would mean 99% of hedge funds will close, but I think it's the price the society can afford to pay, eh?

              I do not understand why the hedge funds should not be allowed to short a stock.
              In this case they are exposed as idiots and lose money.
              Is that not enough punishment?
              "Condoms should come with a free pack of earplugs."

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ThomasSoerensen View Post
                I do not understand why the hedge funds should not be allowed to short a stock.
                In this case they are exposed as idiots and lose money.
                Is that not enough punishment?
                Not in AtW's economic utopia
                ǝןqqıʍ

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ThomasSoerensen View Post
                  I do not understand why the hedge funds should not be allowed to short a stock.
                  In this case they are exposed as idiots and lose money.
                  Is that not enough punishment?
                  There are some lads who ocasionally drive round a nearby Tesco car park in the early hours, screeching the tyres and beeping there horns. They keep lots of people awake and cause a lot of anxiety, its dangerous to go there.

                  One of them smacked a bollard and wrecked his car and bumped his head.
                  In this case they were exposed as idiots and lost the car.
                  Is that not enough punishment?

                  No. The b@stards need to be stopped. As long as the potential is there for a mega disaster, the practice should be curtailed.



                  (\__/)
                  (>'.'<)
                  ("")("") Born to Drink. Forced to Work

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Porsche said today it planned to selling up to 5pc of its own stock in the carmaker to smooth volatility.

                    "Porsche SE intends — depending on the state of the market — to settle hedging transactions in the amount of up to 5pc of the Volkswagen ordinary shares," the Stuttgart-based maker of the 911 said. "This may result in an increase in the liquidity of the Volkswagen ordinary shares."

                    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ll-shares.html

                    Deutsche Boerse - the operator of the Frankfurt stock exchange - also said it would cap the company's weighting in the DAX index to 10pc, effective from next Monday. VW shares were trading down €416 at €529 in early trading.

                    Porsche said it had information that "speculative short sellers have had to buy Volkswagen ordinary shares in order to fulfill their delivery obligations".

                    The luxury car maker also said it was not behind any of what it called market distortions.

                    "Porsche SE denies all responsibility for these market distortions and for the resulting risks to which the short sellers have exposed themselves," it said in a statement. "Porsche has not been active in the market during this share price movements. Allegations of price manipulation by Porsche are therefore without any foundation whatsoever."

                    German financial markets regulator BaFin said on Tuesday it was looking into the recent history of Volkswagen share trading to see if there has been any market manipulation or insider trading.

                    The two days of frantic trading has led to what is thought to be one of the heaviest losses on a single company's shares ever taken by hedge funds.

                    "This is without question the biggest single loss on a single stock in the history of hedge funds. It's a bloodbath," said Laurie Pinto, a broker at North Square Capital, a division of Winterflood.

                    Porsche's disclosure on Sunday that it held 74pc of the car maker – rather than the previously assumed 42.6pc – prompted a huge scramble to cover short positions in Volkswagen, which had been the most shorted stock in Germany's benchmark DAX index.

                    Comment

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