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Porsche crashes into controversy in the ultimate 'short squeeze'

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    Porsche crashes into controversy in the ultimate 'short squeeze'

    Porsche crashes into controversy in the ultimate 'short squeeze'
    For old-timers, the "short squeeze" at the Stutz Motor Company is a favourite from financial folklore.

    Combining legendary status - the cars won races such as Le Mans - with speed, reliability and beauty, they were the object of every ambitious young man's desire. But the emergence of mass production competitors at the end of the First World War spelt trouble for Stutz and financiers knew it. The smart money bet that the stock would fall.

    Alan A Ryan, who controlled the company through family holdings, secretly started buying stock, often through options and opaque holding companies until, in 1920, he announced he controlled 105pc of Stutz.

    When Ryan declared he would settle with the shorts at his price, the whole financial system reeled: as well as the trapped traders, a raft of brokers and intermediaries in the middle of the trade faced bankruptcy too.

    Eventually, the New York Stock Exchange intervened, setting the settlement price itself. Ryan ended up buying an expensive 100pc of a declining car company and went bust. Financiers thought they'd never see the trick attempted again.

    Extraordinarily, the plot - or the first part at least - was last week almost replayed at Volkswagen. Shortly after 3pm on Sunday afternoon, Porsche, the German maker of the iconic 911 sports car, revealed it had secretly bought 31.5pc of VW through a series of cash-settled options with a range of investment banks.

    Added to its known holding of 42.6pc, the options handed Porsche control of nearly 75pc of its bigger rival.

    The news shot through the global hedge fund industry. With shares in VW trading far above the company's fair value and a recession hitting every other car manufacturer, traders had bet millions of euros that the stock would fall. (AtW's comment: that sums up current problems - these people are gamblers who gamble with money they don't own - if this happened in casino person in question would go to jail for fraud (taking someone elses money to gamble))

    But the statement screamed the opposite. With nearly 20pc of the share register held by the state of Lower Saxony and another estimated 6pc held by index trackers, traders calculated a cornered market.

    As one said: "With over 100pc of the stock tied up and nearly 13pc shorted, the correct price of any available stock was infinity. It was the ultimate squeeze."

    More here.

    ---

    Basically this means that hedge funds were shorting effectively non-existant stock (article suggests Porsche allowed banks to let their stock to be borrowed supposedly luring hedge funds into trap) - illegal in the USA I believe, but even there controls are pretty lax so who would know what's going on unless there is situation like this one?

    Here is what needed to solve this problem:
    1) ban short selling and anyone involved in it goes to jail for a long time
    2) any capital gains from short term share holding should be taxed at 110% - this means it will cost you more than you gain
    3) the only low tax applied to shares should be to dividends and capital gains if shares were held for a long period of time, the longer the period the bigger tax discount - exactly the fking thing retard Darling removed
    Last edited by AtW; 2 November 2008, 13:33.

    #2
    Originally posted by AtW View Post
    Here is what needed to solve this problem:
    1) ban short selling and anyone involved in it goes to jail for a long time
    2) any capital gains from short term share holding should be taxed at 110% - this means it will cost you more than you gain
    3) the only low tax applied to shares should be to dividends and capital gains if shares were held for a long period of time, the longer the period the bigger tax discount - exactly the fking thing retard Darling removed
    You haven't a clue what you are rabbiting on about. Introduce your idiotic adolescent policies and people would be starving within the month as the economy collapsed.
    How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

    Follow me on Twitter - LinkedIn Profile - The HAB blog - New Blog: Mad Cameron
    Xeno points: +5 - Asperger rating: 36 - Paranoid Schizophrenic rating: 44%

    "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to high office" - Aesop

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by HairyArsedBloke View Post
      people would be starving within the month as the economy collapsed.
      So, you think having hedge funds trying to fk up big car manufacturer and being burnt in process is somehow going to make people starve within a month? I actually think if all hedge funds were closed it would result in much lower market volatility, situation will become far more predictable and things will settle down a bit.

      I certainly don't see any links between hedge funds shorting shares at will and having people fed. Frankly I think people are not fed up with hedge funds and next year we will see some serious legislation around the globe that will make them extinct. I certainly won't miss them.

      Now I go and make myself a nice lunch because hedge funds will go soon and I won't have gammon stake anymore.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by AtW View Post
        So, you think having hedge funds trying to fk up big car manufacturer and being burnt in process is somehow going to make people starve within a month? I actually think if all hedge funds were closed it would result in much lower market volatility, situation will become far more predictable and things will settle down a bit.

        I certainly don't see any links between hedge funds shorting shares at will and having people fed. Frankly I think people are not fed up with hedge funds and next year we will see some serious legislation around the globe that will make them extinct. I certainly won't miss them.

        Now I go and make myself a nice lunch because hedge funds will go soon and I won't have gammon stake anymore.

        If you’re bored today may I suggest that you look at your past posts and take note how wrong you have been considering the news these past two weeks.
        "A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices," George Orwell

        Comment


          #5
          Your ignorant plans to deter short-term investing will lead to a halt to all investing as people would be unwilling to commit to an investment that they cannot exit from at a time of their own choosing.

          The speculative participants provide the essential liquidity for a proper functioning market. Without it there would be massive price swings as there would inevitable be a mismatch at any one instant between those that want to sell and those that want to buy 'for the long-term'.

          Shorting is a vital risk management tool and has been shown to reduce volatility and, albeit counter-intuitively, avoid large plunges in prices as can provide buy side support as they close out their trades.

          In any case, I am probably your worst nightmare when it comes to being an evil speculant. I [used to] trade stock index and currency futures from a one minute chart and hated holding anything for more that 7-10 bars. I have been known to make a full round trip in a lot less than 10 seconds.
          How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

          Follow me on Twitter - LinkedIn Profile - The HAB blog - New Blog: Mad Cameron
          Xeno points: +5 - Asperger rating: 36 - Paranoid Schizophrenic rating: 44%

          "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to high office" - Aesop

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Paddy View Post
            how wrong you have been considering the news these past two weeks
            There were like many news in the past 2 weeks, if you were so perceptive as to identify some news which proved me wrong, why won't you mention such news explicitly and point out exactly what they proved wrong rather than sending me off to check all news in the past 2 weeks looking if anything there could be interpreted by unprepared minds as my mistake.

            Comment


              #7
              While I'm not an AtW apologist I do share some of his views on shorting and Hedge Funds.

              The whole mechanism of profitable shorting encourages talking down an otherwise stable company and damaging their market value. The same or better profits can be made by spreading an artificial and malicious rumour as an actual fact, as a result companies suffer attacks that might break them. Another result is that peoples genuine investments, savings schemes and pensions suffer hugely not to mention the real job losses that result.
              The Hedge Funds have been a very active part of the shorting business and creation of very esoteric financial instruments that have proven to be atrociously bad risks and if they collapse I won't be in the slightest bit upset.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by HairyArsedBloke View Post
                The speculative participants provide the essential liquidity for a proper functioning market.
                There is too much speculation going on right now - leverages allowed scumbags with no money to wield a lot of highly leveraged borrowed cash that can swing markets very sharply and they use it to profit while long term investors get shafted. That's aint right and they can take this kind of "liquidity" and fook off in my view.

                Comment


                  #9
                  http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...-hit-back.html

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Yes, and look how many replies you got compared to my thread. The difference is achieved by my witty comments in italics.
                    Last edited by AtW; 2 November 2008, 18:20.

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