Zinzan Brooke & other greats

**Mich the Tester** · 6 January 2009, 15:00

Originally posted by Drewster View Post

Mich
I agree a truly great player and a true "gent". He never thought he was too good for anyone/thing..... He would spend time talking to fans and sharing a beer (or two).... actually a trait of many of the "Blacks" including some of the current crop......... unlike "most" of the England mob (not all of them).

Another true "Gent" (and REAL Rugby player) was/is your avatar Fran Cotton a mountain of a man....... I think your photo is from the Lions vs ABs in Wellington circa 1978???

Yep, brilliant guy is Fran Cotton. Very few of the top players carry on after playing professionally these days, which seems to be one of the big changes since the amateur era. I don’t know what’s stopping them. I’ve only ever played for fun even though I reached a pretty high level as an amateur and still train 5 times a week, but I can’t imagine that money would change that; the game is for fun, money should come second.

I chose the picture because it's an iconic image that sums up everything about playing in the pack; no glamour, but hard work, mud, blood and guts; let the girls score the tries.

**Drewster** · 6 January 2009, 15:21

I think to be fair thier bodies take a fair old beating nowadays and if its been your "job" for 10+ years it might lose the enjoyment element once you are not paid........

In the days of Zinzan and Fran they did play "just" for enjoyment.....

Of the current/recent crop
Martin Johnson - is a decent bloke who isn't too far up himself to talk to "mere mortals"
Jonah Lomu is a really decent bloke (unlike Will Carling who apart from being sh*te is a total *rse) - Several years ago I was a twickers and went with the young son of a mate I was with so he could get some autographs - at a NZ BaaBaa vs England game.

Bumface came out (with collar pulled up and beany hat pulled down) was spotted by the lad (about 10yrs) who very politely said "Mr Carling could I have your autograph please"......... Carling (who was England captain at the time) grunted ".... off"......
The lad came back to me almost in tears cos his "hero" wasn't quite so heroic up close.......
a couple of minutes later Lomu came out and the lad tried again..... "Mr Lomu......" was all he got out and Jonah stopped crouched down (from about 4 times the lads height) and asked how he enjoyed the game, etc etc and signed his book - then said would you like some of the other lads to sign??
Took the book back into the stadium and came back about 20mns later with ALL the BaaBaas signatures plus several of the England lads.....
and he brought out Sean Fitzpatrick and a couple of others "just" to say hello!!

Needless to say the lad is still a Rugby fan - but he cheers for the Blacks!

**Mich the Tester** · 6 January 2009, 15:24

Originally posted by Drewster View Post

I think to be fair thier bodies take a fair old beating nowadays and if its been your "job" for 10+ years it might lose the enjoyment element once you are not paid........

In the days of Zinzan and Fran they did play "just" for enjoyment.....

Of the current/recent crop
Martin Johnson - is a decent bloke who isn't too far up himself to talk to "mere mortals"
Jonah Lomu is a really decent bloke (unlike Will Carling who apart from being sh*te is a total *rse) - Several years ago I was a twickers and went with the young son of a mate I was with so he could get some autographs - at a NZ BaaBaa vs England game.

Bumface came out (with collar pulled up and beany hat pulled down) was spotted by the lad (about 10yrs) who very politely said "Mr Carling could I have your autograph please"......... Carling (who was England captain at the time) grunted ".... off"......
The lad came back to me almost in tears cos his "hero" wasn't quite so heroic up close.......
a couple of minutes later Lomu came out and the lad tried again..... "Mr Lomu......" was all he got out and Jonah stopped crouched down (from about 4 times the lads height) and asked how he enjoyed the game, etc etc and signed his book - then said would you like some of the other lads to sign??
Took the book back into the stadium and came back about 20mns later with ALL the BaaBaas signatures plus several of the England lads.....
and he brought out Sean Fitzpatrick and a couple of others "just" to say hello!!

Needless to say the lad is still a Rugby fan - but he cheers for the Blacks!

Carling wasn't even the best centre England had. Simon Halliday was pushed out to the wing to accomodate him, while Halliday/Guscott was the best centre partnership in England, playing together at Bath. Halliday wasn't even really suited to the wing; too slow, but still showed some brilliant skills. Nicer bloke too. Guscott's a bit up himself though; I don't like seeing former top players slagging off the guys who are out there giving their all. They should know how bloody difficult it is.

**Drewster** · 6 January 2009, 15:33

Didn't some other wally get picked for England ahead of Guscott as well - DeVilliers, DeHaviland, DeGlanville or some such......

Came to the Lions tour and lets see.... Carling - nope, DeHopeless - Nope
Guscott - Yep a shoe in (probably the best centre in the world)....

If my old brain isn't too befuddled wasn't that team "picked" by Fran Cotton??

I seem to remember that Guscott scored the (last minute) drop goal that won the series as well!!!!

In my playing days I was a donkey/forward as well so I didn't do too much of the pretty boy stuff - I like to think I was a cross between Graham Mourie, JP Rieve and Micky Skinner..... although truthfully it was more like Graham Chapman, JP Morgan and Micky Mouse - in te Rugby skills sense!

PS I don't think Carling was the best centre in his house!

**Mich the Tester** · 6 January 2009, 15:37

Originally posted by Drewster View Post

Didn't some other wally get picked for England ahead of Guscott as well - DeVilliers, DeHaviland, DeGlanville or some such......

Came to the Lions tour and lets see.... Carling - nope, DeHopeless - Nope
Guscott - Yep a shoe in (probably the best centre in the world)....

If my old brain isn't too befuddled wasn't that team "picked" by Fran Cotton??

I seem to remember that Guscott scored the (last minute) drop goal that won the series as well!!!!

In my playing days I was a donkey/forward as well so I didn't do too much of the pretty boy stuff - I like to think I was a cross between Graham Mourie, JP Rieve and Micky Skinner..... although truthfully it was more like Graham Chapman, JP Morgan and Micky Mouse - in te Rugby skills sense!

PS I don't think Carling was the best centre in his house!

De Glanville was actually a very skilled player, but suffered against NZ because he wasn't really big enough to take the hits.

I quite like making the big hits these days, a la Skinner. Was once a fleet footed open side, now more of a heavyweight basher on the blind side. Still fun though.

**Drewster** · 6 January 2009, 15:48

Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Post

I quite like making the big hits these days, a la Skinner. Was once a fleet footed open side, now more of a heavyweight basher on the blind side. Still fun though.

Big hits was my forte.... ie I wasn't particularly skillful, I wasn't paticularly fast, I wasn't particularly fit........ but I could knock a brick sh*thouse backwards.......

It was quite fun towards the end of my "career" in that I got relegated from
1st choice flanker (for the 3rd or 4th team) and just made up the numbers.... I played many a game on the wing (blindside winger - ie I stood on the short side as a stopper rather than in any attacking sense).....
Many an effeminate pretty boy got "broken" by 16stone of animal just as he was wondering wether he should adjust his hair parting before the elegant dive for the try line....... (I wasn't fast anything beyond 10-15yds (I probably couldn't get more than 20yds in one go) but if I got a paw on you - you would be stopped)

**Mich the Tester** · 6 January 2009, 15:54

Originally posted by Drewster View Post

Big hits was my forte.... ie I wasn't particularly skillful, I wasn't paticularly fast, I wasn't particularly fit........ but I could knock a brick sh*thouse backwards.......

It was quite fun towards the end of my "career" in that I got relegated from
1st choice flanker (for the 3rd or 4th team) and just made up the numbers.... I played many a game on the wing (blindside winger - ie I stood on the short side as a stopper rather than in any attacking sense).....
Many an effeminate pretty boy got "broken" by 16stone of animal just as he was wondering wether he should adjust his hair parting before the elegant dive for the try line....... (I wasn't fast anything beyond 10-15yds (I probably couldn't get more than 20yds in one go) but if I got a paw on you - you would be stopped)

It’s fun, but wingers are getting rather big these days, even at the amateur levels.

**Drewster** · 6 January 2009, 16:05

Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Post

It’s fun, but wingers are getting rather big these days, even at the amateur levels.

Unfortunately they are all getting far to big these days......

I am 6ft and when I played I occasionally played 2nd row.... where 6ft4 was considered a "big lad"........

Nowadays I would be a midget even with the Girlies.... and would be laughed at as a 2nd row/No8.

Also at 16st (playing weight) I was among the heavy weights of the team..... a pretty high percentage of the girls are over that weight now....

Good job I took up knitting...........

**Mich the Tester** · 6 January 2009, 16:12

Originally posted by Drewster View Post

Unfortunately they are all getting far to big these days......

I am 6ft and when I played I occasionally played 2nd row.... where 6ft4 was considered a "big lad"........

Nowadays I would be a midget even with the Girlies.... and would be laughed at as a 2nd row/No8.

Also at 16st (playing weight) I was among the heavy weights of the team..... a pretty high percentage of the girls are over that weight now....

Good job I took up knitting...........

I’m 6 ft 1 and 16 stone and the smallest, lightest guy in our pack. Come to think of it, even in the backs only scrum half and one of the wingers are smaller.

It isn’t all that counts though. It’s all about explosive power; lots of plyometric work in the gym, Olympic lifts and short sprints. Anyone over about 15 stone should be strong enough, but you have to train the fast strength.

Zinzan Brooke & other greats