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expat
19th January 2009, 22:53
The overall death toll of Operation Cast Lead stood above 1,300, including more than 400 children. Another 5,300 were wounded. Israel reported a death toll of 13.

Israel claims their response was "proportionate".

And the world stands by while the soldiers and bombers massacre. The Palestinians must feel very like the Jews in WWII: lonely insignificant helpless victims.

PM-Junkie
19th January 2009, 22:57
The overall death toll of Operation Cast Lead stood above 1,300, including more than 400 children. Another 5,300 were wounded. Israel reported a death toll of 13.

Israel claims their response was "proportionate".

And the world stands by while the soldiers and bombers massacre. The Palestinians must feel very like the Jews in WWII: lonely insignificant helpless victims.

There's evil on both sides....but when you have a few minutes glance through the nationality of the people with their finger on the pulse of US policy, brought in by Bush....and see how many of them are dual national USA/Israeli.

It explains a lot.

lilelvis2000
20th January 2009, 10:20
Claims that Israel unintentionally shot civilians is refuted by this article...and many others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html


Though nothing can be done as Israel is not signed up to many international accords.

Though I think Egypt played a HUGE part in not opening the gates to allow refugees to enter. As well one has to think that peace in northern ireland only came when the gov't sat down opposite to the IRA...what's the deal with Israel and Hamas?

On the whole. one cannot call it a war as there is no way Hamas could "win" and looking at the images from the destruction...it does look a lot like "collective punishment". We'll never know the truth of course.

expat
20th January 2009, 10:43
On the whole. one cannot call it a war as there is no way Hamas could "win" and looking at the images from the destruction...it does look a lot like "collective punishment". We'll never know the truth of course.No ..... but we can be pretty sure that there are no Palestinian tanks crushing Israeli homes and killing people by the dozen. No Palestinian Air Force to bomb and destroy. No thousands of well-armed Palestinian troops marching through Israel shooting anything that moves.

We don't know how many thousands, of course: this is not the kind of thing that Israel wants the world's press watching, so it is done in the night and fog of a Press ban.

And the US calls its $5bn arms gifts to Israel "foreign aid"! But it is the only way to make the statistics for the US Government's foreign aid %GNP rise up off lowest position of all industrialised countries.

EternalOptimist
20th January 2009, 10:55
And the world stands by while the soldiers and bombers massacre. The Palestinians must feel very like the Jews in WWII: lonely insignificant helpless victims.

you feel stongly about this. What did you do about it ?

lilelvis2000
20th January 2009, 10:56
Here's an interesting report..if true. THough I think it is...

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200912011540287157.html

Nothing will be done however...The UN is proven to be truely useless and a pawn of the US. One image is that of the the UN Sec. Gen. sitting next to the Livni and complaining about the Israel bombardment and bombing of UN installations and people. Then smiling and shaking Livini's hand. Pathetic.

The UN should stick to Aid and statistics.

All I can do is perhaps see the devastation for myself....Being insulated by the BBC is making me tear up my TV licence.

NotAllThere
20th January 2009, 11:10
...As well one has to think that peace in northern ireland only came when the gov't sat down opposite to the IRA...what's the deal with Israel and Hamas?...

The IRA were after independence from Britain. They came to a deal where they now have a degree of that. Hamas want the total destruction of Israel. Understanding that is pretty basic to any understanding of the current problems.

The PLO, although they never removed their desire for the total destruction of Israel from their charter, seemed to have moved to accepting a measure of independence. But that could still be just a strategic move in order to be better positioned for their original aim.

lilelvis2000
20th January 2009, 11:51
Probably a good reason to get together and chat don't you think? I don't think Hamas will disappear.

Sure there is a huge cultural gap but I think there will be some solution.

IMHO Israel does itself no favours either. Essentially putting the West Bank Palestinians into cantonments with hundreds of checkpoints so travel and work is very difficult. Unilaterally declaring the West Bank border doesn't help much either.

Fatah has overseen all this and is very weak. But they've expended themselves during the second Intifada and the israeli bombing in 2002 finished they're military goals completly. I think Israel hopes they've done the same in Gaza.

we'll see.