Is it the fault of NuLabour or socialism?

[FSM with Cheddar]

What is to blame for the dire state of affairs this country is in?

Does socialism work, but Labour have done it all wrong? Or is it socialism that is rotten at the core?

Discuss.

[sasguru]

Discuss.

No. Next.

[Menelaus]

A very, very good question.

First things first - TCB (That C*** Blair) could never be imposed upon to describe himself or his government as socialist so calling NuLab socialist is perhaps a little disingenuous.

That having been said the current TCB (That C*** Broon) has taken the party in a certainly more leftist position and the centralisation / nationalisation agenda that he is quietly following, together with his desire to control (or have the illusion of control) from the centre is a key socialist characteristic.

Interestingly, I recall Gorbachev being interviewed in Time or Newsweek(?) in the early 90s and saying "I'm a socialist; I always will be - but you shouldn't let that worry you". Nowadays, I am worried about the socialist ideal that is being pursued with such vigour by the Cyclopian idiot in No10.

So - to answer the initial question in one sentence:

Socialism isn't wrong necessarily - but NuLabour is.

[Mich the Tester]

Erm, I can think of several objections to socialism AND ZanuLabour, but I’m struck by the sudden swing of many governments, particularly Gordon’s mob, from professing (although not following) free market ideals to supposedly embracing Keynesian economics.

Keynes said that governments should provide fiscal stimuli, through tax cuts and public spending, to help an economy through the lean times. Governments are now all doing this. Trouble is, the bit that Gordon and his American chums didn’t read was that Keynes also said governments should run a surplus in periods of economic growth to keep some reserves to cover deficits in lean times.

[Foxy Moron]

What is to blame for the dire state of affairs this country is in?

Does socialism work, but Labour have done it all wrong? Or is it socialism that is rotten at the core?

Discuss.

We don't have socialism in this country, we have a largely capitalist society with some state intervention. Just as we did under the last government, albeit a bit more state. Monetarism has fked up so now we're returning to a sort of keynsian economics, albeit without full employment.

[AlfredJPruffock]

A very, very good question.

First things first - TCB (That C*** Blair) could never be imposed upon to describe himself or his government as socialist so calling NuLab socialist is perhaps a little disingenuous.

That having been said the current TCB (That C*** Broon) has taken the party in a certainly more leftist position and the centralisation / nationalisation agenda that he is quietly following, together with his desire to control (or have the illusion of control) from the centre is a key socialist characteristic.

Interestingly, I recall Gorbachev being interviewed in Time or Newsweek(?) in the early 90s and saying "I'm a socialist; I always will be - but you shouldn't let that worry you". Nowadays, I am worried about the socialist ideal that is being pursued with such vigour by the Cyclopian idiot in No10.

So - to answer the initial question in one sentence:

Socialism isn't wrong necessarily - but NuLabour is.

In effect NuLabour continued the Thathcher and Reagan Free Market doctrine- unfetteed and unregulated Capitalism which led utlimately to the current collapse.

However - both Reagan and Thatcher were against increased Government spending - on the other hand NL created a huge political class of civil servants which have maintained their power base and could still win NL the next election.

[minestrone]

I do not think that Labour are really socialists anymore, I think they are just crap and that is why we are in trouble.

In Scotland we are at the mercy of a real socialist goverment, they removed prescription fees last week as Annabel Goldie said ( leader of the Scottish Conservatives ) paraphrasing "that is all very nice but where is the money going to come from?"

[Menelaus]

In effect NuLabour continued the Thathcher and Reagan Free Market doctrine- unfetteed and unregulated Capitalism which led utlimately to the current collapse.

However - both Reagan and Thatcher were against increaded Government spending - on the other hand NL created a huge political class of civil servants which have maintained their power base and could still win NL the next election.

Absolutely. In any other country creating a huge public sector - by some estimates as many as one in five work in the public sector - would be seen as ballot stuffing.

The non-jobs in the Guardian are such a joke as to be ... aargh.

[Mich the Tester]

In effect NuLabour continued the Thathcher and Reagan Free Market doctrine- unfetteed and unregulated Capitalism which led utlimately to the current collapse.

That’s Friedman’s economics, or the Austrian school’s Libertarian approach. Thing is, what Friedman said was that government spending should always be under control and the money supply must not grow too fast. Even Mrs Thatcher and Mr Reagan, advised by Friedman, understood the need for supervision of financial markets. Supervision is of course something different to regulation; it involves central banks and financial authorities having the teeth to bite hard into those who act irresponsibly. Regulation on the other hand is often little more than a pointless form-filling exercise. Gordon took away the supervision and introduced lots of regulation.

We now have the worst of both Keynesian and Austrian School economic policies; too much ineffective and expensive regulation, too much public spending, too little authoritative supervision, huge debts and not enough reserves to give any more fiscal stimulus.

[Solidec]

As with most 3rd or 4th term governments, EVERYTHING Labour has done for the last 2 years has been for the sole purpose of getting relelected.

Housing Bubble, 40% of all new jobs in last 12 years in Public Sector, massive budget deficits and overspend, huge taxes, all in the name of padding out the red vote!

Lets not get started on Postal Voting, dodgy electoral boundaries, over-representation of Scotland and Wales in Westmidden!