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The UK Banking Bailout

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    The UK Banking Bailout

    What am I missing here, everywhere you read there's dire news about how much this banking bailout is going to cost us, latest figures were about £3000 per person, although this is disputed by the Treasury.

    I can't work that out though, how is it going to cost us that? Considering the state has nationalised some and part nationalised others, that's just really playing the stock market. There's no doubt in my mind that this cycle will eventually perpetuate and banking shares will go back up and by then the government paying 45p for every RBS share then goes onto sell them at 245p years later (just an example). Considering these are preferential shares, the governments getting 12% return on those anyway until they sell up. Look at Northern Rock, that's almost back in the black already.

    Moving onto the 'toxic debt' argument how is it toxic? This is secured against property. Property prices will eventually go back up some time this decade and out of all those mortgages on the governments books, how many of them as a percentage are in negative equity? Commercial property prices will eventually go up as well as the cycle of boom and bust returns then when you realise that part of the conditions of the bailout were that if the government makes a loss when it liquidates these assets, the banking sector has to cover those losses.

    Until any government actually puts tax up, I don't see how it's costing us any extra money. From what I can see, this is getting funded by expenditure cuts, trying to extract more tax using existing legislation and by quantitative easing which as I understand it, this magically appearing money is just like a loan from the state to be paid back in the future when inflation rockets, but again I would imagine this being 'paid back' when the sector has recovered and the government has offloaded everything.

    This is of course me not being cynical by thinking that any future government will raise taxes and also keep the money from selling everything off. That's not like them at all is it?

    Where am I going wrong?
    "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

    On them! On them! They fail!

    #2
    Originally posted by Incognito View Post
    This is secured against property.
    Property not always in this country - what's good if you have got house in USA but you can't go live there because of visa restrictions?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by AtW View Post
      Property not always in this country - what's good if you have got house in USA but you can't go live there because of visa restrictions?
      Can we demand them to be free holiday homes for tax payers?

      How many in Florida I wonder
      'elf and safety guru

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by AtW View Post
        Property not always in this country - what's good if you have got house in USA but you can't go live there because of visa restrictions?
        The assets are secured against property that is in negative equity, therefore the debt cannot be called in until the housing market recovers. The banks become less willing to lend to each other as there sitting on top of all this debt that no one is making the interest payments on, so there is no income stream on this asset and no one wants to take the asset from you for obvious reasons. This depresses the housing market as the lending conditions get stricter and stricter and round we go again.

        HTH
        Knock first as I might be balancing my chakras.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by AtW View Post
          Property not always in this country - what's good if you have got house in USA but you can't go live there because of visa restrictions?
          You're missing the point. The government isn't interested in location or where's nice to bring up the kids. It's a secured debt. The asset may be devalued now, but will rise in value at some point. This means that theoretically the government should be able to monetise this asset and have its capital returned by either selling the property or selling on the mortgage when the sector recovers.
          "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

          On them! On them! They fail!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Incognito View Post
            You're missing the point. The government isn't interested in location or where's nice to bring up the kids. It's a secured debt. The asset may be devalued now, but will rise in value at some point. This means that theoretically the government should be able to monetise this asset and have its capital returned by either selling the property or selling on the mortgage when the sector recovers.
            The government is broke.

            HTH
            Knock first as I might be balancing my chakras.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Incognito View Post
              It's a secured debt. The asset may be devalued now, but will rise in value at some point.
              Do you not think that if nobody lives in a house for 10 years and it's a whole block of such houses they will become rundown?

              Will Govt pay local taxes for those houses, like say council tax - whether you live there or not?

              Thing is Govt does not want to take over those houses because right now they use accounting trick to mark value of those houses to "fair value" rather than market, that's how they avoid announcing futher losses, but as soon as they take over houses they won't be able to do that.

              It's pretty much the same scam as that of lake Chicamacomico.

              Comment


                #8
                A lot of the debt is not secured
                (\__/)
                (>'.'<)
                ("")("") Born to Drink. Forced to Work

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by AtW View Post
                  Do you not think that if nobody lives in a house for 10 years and it's a whole block of such houses they will become rundown?

                  Will Govt pay local taxes for those houses, like say council tax - whether you live there or not?

                  Thing is Govt does not want to take over those houses because right now they use accounting trick to mark value of those houses to "fair value" rather than market, that's how they avoid announcing futher losses, but as soon as they take over houses they won't be able to do that.

                  It's pretty much the same scam as that of lake Chicamacomico.
                  And out of the portfolio the government holds, how many of them do you think are actually held by the government at the moment? Mortgage Express has 4.6% of it's mortgage book three months in arrears or repossessed and that's a larger proportion than any other nationalised bank.

                  The government wouldn't 'hold on' to any property it repossessed, it would be auctioned as is standard in the industry.

                  I also believe that UK banks have already written off American Sub Prime losses prior to Nationalisation and using the RBS as an example, its exposure to the American housing market is mainly through Citizens bank which qualified for relief under the US TARP scheme. So let's forget about the American Sub-prime market for this thread.
                  "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

                  On them! On them! They fail!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
                    A lot of the debt is not secured
                    Ah ha, a poster with some genuine input. Can you elaborate please?
                    "I hope Celtic realise that, if their team is good enough, they will win. If they're not good enough, they'll not win - and they can't look at anybody else, whether it is referees or any other influence." - Walter Smith

                    On them! On them! They fail!

                    Comment

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