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Cyberman
29th June 2009, 22:50
We are sleepwalking into an Islamic State. :suicide:

eliquant
29th June 2009, 22:53
Well I'm gonna Jihad your Jihad sucker !

minestrone
29th June 2009, 22:54
We are sleepwalking into an Islamic State. :suicide:

G.O..A.W.A.Y.

pzz76077
29th June 2009, 22:56
We are sleepwalking into an Islamic State. :suicide:

Whats wrong with an Islamic state?? Works well in lots of other counties.

PZZ

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:00
Here is something I noticed in the local paper. Should get cyber and pzz into a circle jerking frenzy.


A PAKISTANI cafe boss yesterday claimed death threats from religious extremists had forced him to wear a bulletproof vest.

Jimshaed Sharif, 50, says he has become a target for fanatical Muslims because he plays music and serves alcohol.

Dad-of-two Jimshaed added: "I have to take these threats seriously and have been forced to start wearing a bulletproof vest.

"It is not that I think they will shoot me but I have to do everything I can to protect myself and knives are a worry.

"Muslim thugs have threatened to kill me and petrol bomb my cafe because I play music and serve customers alcohol.

"I am being targeted because I do not share their Islamic beliefs and I think this is shocking. We are supposed to live in a free country and I just want to live a free man.

"I consider myself Scottish because I was brought up here and even though I was born in Lahore a Muslim, I no longer hold any religious beliefs.
linky winky (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2009/06/29/exclusive-scots-pakistani-cafe-owner-forced-to-wear-bulletproof-vest-after-getting-death-threats-from-extremists-for-selling-booze-86908-21480082/)

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:01
Whats wrong with an Islamic state?? Works well in lots of other counties.

PZZ


Yeah, it's great in Iran I hear. We are a Christian country rapidly becoming an Islamic country. Christian and Islam are incompatible and two systems of law in one country are also incompatible and a recipe for civil unrest. :suicide:

pzz76077
29th June 2009, 23:04
Yeah, it's great in Iran I hear. We are a Christian country rapidly becoming an Islamic country. Christian and Islam are incompatible and two systems of law in one country are also incompatible and a recipe for civil unrest. :suicide:

Gordon Brown would love UK to be an Islamic state then he could rig the next election- lets face it that they only way Labour will get back in!

PZZ

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:05
Yeah, it's great in Iran I hear. We are a Christian country rapidly becoming an Islamic country. Christian and Islam are incompatible and two systems of law in one country are also incompatible and a recipe for civil unrest. :suicide:

How many Islamic countries have you been in?

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:06
Gordon Brown would love UK to be an Islamic state then he could rig the next election- lets face it that they only way Labour will get back in!

PZZ



.. he should be worried. They cut out people's tongues for lying. :laugh

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:07
Gordon Brown would love UK to be an Islamic state then he could rig the next election- lets face it that they only way Labour will get back in!

PZZ

Seriously, the level of fishing in this place has really went down hill. That is the worst one I have seen for ages.

contractor79
29th June 2009, 23:07
We are sleepwalking into an Islamic State. :suicide:

had you warned about this before it happened you would have been branded a racist and/or a nazi. Besides, the growth of the "religion of peace" is a wonderful thing is it not? :-p

now it's happening those people are proven to be correct. So much for the false assurances from those politicians and church leaders who brushed it off thinking it would not take off. Unavoidable huh? Only if we're lead by church leaders and politicians with no backbone to take a stand for Christianity.

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:10
How many Islamic countries have you been in?


None, and I have no intention of risking kidnap, death etc by visiting one. :suicide:

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:14
None, and I have no intention of risking kidnap, death etc by visiting one. :suicide:

Is it not becasue you are an old queen and know that they don't like gayers?

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:18
Is it not becasue you are an old queen and know that they don't like gayers?


The tourist kidnapped and murdered in Mali a month ago, the many kidnapped and murdered in Iraq, and the teachers and their children kidnapped and murdered in Somalia last week are all testament to your stupidity. :tired

pzz76077
29th June 2009, 23:21
The tourist kidnapped and murdered in Mali a month ago, the many kidnapped and murdered in Iraq, and the teachers and their children kidnapped and murdered in Somalia last week are all testament to your stupidity. :tired

Are you saying that being a follower of Islam makes you want to kill people?? I seriously doubt that you can substantiate that.

PZZ

pzz76077
29th June 2009, 23:25
Here is something I noticed in the local paper. Should get cyber and pzz into a circle jerking frenzy.


linky winky (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2009/06/29/exclusive-scots-pakistani-cafe-owner-forced-to-wear-bulletproof-vest-after-getting-death-threats-from-extremists-for-selling-booze-86908-21480082/)

Do BP vests stop knives?? Not sure they do.

PZZ

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:25
The tourist kidnapped and murdered in Mali a month ago, the many kidnapped and murdered in Iraq, and the teachers and their children kidnapped and murdered in Somalia last week are all testament to your stupidity. :tired

Touched a nerve have I? So it is something that you do not deny. Can I just say that Christianity does not allow homosexuality as well.

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:25
Are you saying that being a follower of Islam makes you want to kill people?? I seriously doubt that you can substantiate that.

PZZ


No, but the fact that you are a Christian in an Islamic country makes you extremely vulnerable to death. My answer to that is not to visit Islamic countries or countries where Islam is prevalent. :suicide:

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:27
Touched a nerve have I? So it is something that you do not deny. Can I just say that Christianity does not allow homosexuality as well.


Christians do not hang gays. Iran regularly hangs gays under sharia law. :suicide:

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:28
No, but the fact that you are a Christian in an Islamic country makes you extremely vulnerable to death. My answer to that is not to visit Islamic countries or countries where Islam is prevalent. :suicide:

I have found the Islamic countries to be pretty safe, you are not likely to get mugged by a drunk kebab carrying nutter waking home from the pub on a Saturday night.

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:31
I have found the Islamic countries to be pretty safe, you are not likely to get mugged by a drunk kebab carrying nutter waking home from the pub on a Saturday night.


I'd rather run the risk of getting mugged than being kidnapped and having my throat cut. :suicide:

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:31
Christians do not hang gays. Iran regularly hangs gays under sharia law. :suicide:

Well Indonesia does not do that to homosexuals so you are quite safe there. They have lovely beaches as well.

Cyberman
29th June 2009, 23:34
Well Indonesia does not do that to homosexuals so you are quite safe there. They have lovely beaches as well.


Now I understand why you go there. :suicide:

pzz76077
29th June 2009, 23:35
No, but the fact that you are a Christian in an Islamic country makes you extremely vulnerable to death. My answer to that is not to visit Islamic countries or countries where Islam is prevalent. :suicide:

Ive lived and worked in quite a few Islamic states and have not encountered any real issues that I would consider life threatening. Then again Im a complete non-believer so this could make a difference I guess.

I would maintain that you are just as likely to be popped in a non-Islamic country. The former Soviet Union, USA etc are pretty dangerous places by all accounts.

Anyway how does any of this relate to your OP??

PZZ

minestrone
29th June 2009, 23:40
Ive lived and worked in quite a few Islamic states and have not encountered any real issues that I would consider life threatening. Then again Im a complete non-believer so this could make a difference I guess.

I would maintain that you are just as likely to be popped in a non-Islamic country. The former Soviet Union, USA etc are pretty dangerous places by all accounts.

Anyway how does any of this relate to your OP??

PZZ

Looking at the list of murders per country..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

It looks like the middle east Islamic places are well down the rankings compared with the UK. I stay in the murder capital of Europe as well so I see going to an Islamic country a safe option.

pzz76077
29th June 2009, 23:42
No, but the fact that you are a Christian in an Islamic country makes you extremely vulnerable to death. My answer to that is not to visit Islamic countries or countries where Islam is prevalent. :suicide:

You mean like the UK and most of Europe then??

PZZ

RichardCranium
29th June 2009, 23:46
linky winky (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2009/06/29/exclusive-scots-pakistani-cafe-owner-forced-to-wear-bulletproof-vest-after-getting-death-threats-from-extremists-for-selling-booze-86908-21480082/)"linky winky"? You git. I'm going to have to do that too now.


We are a Christian countrySpeak for yourself and the rest of the God-bothering minority.


Only if we're lead by church leaders and politicians with no backbone to take a stand for Christianity.You can bugger off with forcing that load of old fiction on us too. Is it the protestants or the Catholics you'll be wanting us to burn?

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 06:25
How many times do we have to do this? You truely are a tosser of the first water for bringing this up again and again.

These "courts" are no different to ACAS or any other arbitration system. They are there to allow people to sort out their differences without resorting to an expensive legal battle through the UK court system.
As with all arbitration services both parties must agree to use them.

Muslims are not subject to a different set of laws. Where UK law applies they MUST comply with it.

Many devout Muslims want to settle their differences in accordance with their religion and so go to their Imams and other learned people. They have been doing this for years. The Imam tells them what Islam requires of them.

The thing that has changed is that now an Islamic "court" ruling can be regarded as legally binding under UK law which before their recognition they were not.

GreenerGrass
30th June 2009, 06:55
I saw a procession of half a dozen women in the full black ninja gear yesterday in the city scuttling by, what with the heat as well you could have been in Riyadh.
It used to be very rare to see the full face veil, but it is getting increasingly common.
I think they'd just been in Marks and Spencers off Gracechurch St, perhaps buying lingerie.

Churchill
30th June 2009, 07:01
Looking at the list of murders per country..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

It looks like the middle east Islamic places are well down the rankings compared with the UK. I stay in the murder capital of Europe as well so I see going to an Islamic country a safe option.

I don't think they call it murder if it's done on religious grounds.

Hth. :rolleyes:

snaw
30th June 2009, 07:18
I'd rather run the risk of getting mugged than being kidnapped and having my throat cut. :suicide:

Fat chance I know, but please can you just go away?

Really.

Or at least go tell your neighbour off for leaving his bins out, instead of posting shite here?

RichardCranium
30th June 2009, 08:13
I saw a procession of half a dozen women in the full black ninja gear yesterday in the city scuttling by, what with the heat as well you could have been in Riyadh.
It used to be very rare to see the full face veil, but it is getting increasingly common.That's odd. Between forty and ten years ago when I was growing up and then working in London I used to see it a lot. In the main shopping streets and many parts of North London it was all the time. I never went to East London but I bet it went on there too. I saw it in West London in the early 1990s when I was there.

It's not new. It's just news.

lilelvis2000
30th June 2009, 09:34
You know, Cyberturd, There are a lot of Muslim bashing forums and groups and websites around...why not post on there. Or would that be preaching to the converted?

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 10:22
How many Islamic countries have you been in?

What a stupid comment. Judge by a bit of tourism or perhaps at best some contract time, never mind checking the laws of the country and how they are implemented in practice. Unless you insist on public drinking and immodesty or go around trying to convert Muslims or publicly insulting Islam it is scarcely likely that Islamic laws will affect you as they affect the citizens of that country.

Over and over one sees comments on the net that absolve Islam based on the fact that someone stayed in a Muslim country for a while or knows a few Muslims and they are jolly nice people. I don't dispute it, but that doesn't alter the profoundly undemocratic and intolerant nature of the creed as evidenced in the actual practice of Islamic laws worldwide.

The practices in the very worst of those states are the ones that are in line with the Qu'ran and the Haddiths. People should try reading them to see just what sort of man the prophet was. True, there are more moderate versions of Islam, even if none allow the sort of freedom and equality that most of us want, but do you really want to let it take over and trust to Islamic politics what sort of government you get?

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 10:32
How about some of you people abusing Cyberman actually present some informed comment based on knowledge and reality?

Kindly let us know:

a) If you approve of stonings, cutting off limbs, imprisonment (or worse) of gays, unequal treatment of women, imprisonment or exclusion (or worse) for heresy, apostacy or criticism of Islam or ritual slaughter of animals?

b) If not, what do you think these practices are about in Islamic countries? Nothing to do with Islam? Please explain your reasons.

c) Can you explain the real meaning of the clauses in the Qu'ran and what the prophet said and had done in the Haddiths (stonings etc as above) if they do not mean not exactly what they appear to mean?

d) You HAVE read them haven't you?

minestrone
30th June 2009, 10:37
What a stupid comment. Judge by a bit of tourism or perhaps at best some contract time, never mind checking the laws of the country and how they are implemented in practice. Unless you insist on public drinking and immodesty or go around trying to convert Muslims or publicly insulting Islam it is scarcely likely that Islamic laws will affect you as they affect the citizens of that country.

Over and over one sees comments on the net that absolve Islam based on the fact that someone stayed in a Muslim country for a while or knows a few Muslims and they are jolly nice people. I don't dispute it, but that doesn't alter the profoundly undemocratic and intolerant nature of the creed as evidenced in the actual practice of Islamic laws worldwide.

The practices in the very worst of those states are the ones that are in line with the Qu'ran and the Haddiths. People should try reading them to see just what sort of man the prophet was. True, there are more moderate versions of Islam, even if none allow the sort of freedom and equality that most of us want, but do you really want to let it take over and trust to Islamic politics what sort of government you get?

First off it was a question not a comment, but anyway, how many Islamic countries have you been in?

Menelaus
30th June 2009, 10:39
Two bald men, fighting over a comb or arguing who's got the best imaginary friend.

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 10:42
How about some of you people abusing Cyberman actually present some informed comment based on knowledge and reality?

Kindly let us know:

a) If you approve of stonings, cutting off limbs, imprisonment (or worse) of gays, unequal treatment of women, imprisonment or exclusion (or worse) for heresy, apostacy or criticism of Islam or ritual slaughter of animals?

b) If not, what do you think these practices are about in Islamic countries? Nothing to do with Islam? Please explain your reasons.

c) Can you explain the real meaning of what the clauses in the Qu'ran and what the prophet said and had done in the Haddiths (stonings etc as above) if they do not mean not exactly what they appear to mean?

d) You HAVE read them haven't you?I am abusing Cybertwat because he brings this up again and again. It is scare mongering and misrepresentation of the worst order. These kind of attempts to demonise Islam actualy undermine the very valid points you attempt to make and allow the Islamophiles to group all opposition as rabid Islamaphobia.

There is a vast difference between what has been implemented and "sleep walking towards an Islamic state".
I would be much more concerned about other things than sharia courts in the UK.

snaw
30th June 2009, 10:42
How about some of you people abusing Cyberman actually present some informed comment based on knowledge and reality?

Kindly let us know:

a) If you approve of stonings, cutting off limbs, imprisonment (or worse) of gays, unequal treatment of women, imprisonment or exclusion (or worse) for heresy, apostacy or criticism of Islam or ritual slaughter of animals?

b) If not, what do you think these practices are about in Islamic countries? Nothing to do with Islam? Please explain your reasons.

c) Can you explain the real meaning of what the clauses in the Qu'ran and what the prophet said and had done in the Haddiths (stonings etc as above) if they do not mean not exactly what they appear to mean?

d) You HAVE read them haven't you?

Xog, you're presenting a reasonable argument (Though you do appear to harbour a passionate dislike for Islam). I reckon most of the points you raise are valid points, but equally we (The Christian west) weren't so different not so long ago, and I believe most of these arguments highlight the worst parts in Islam, not necessarily the norm in most Islamic cultures.

CB on the other hand, well he's just an out and out knob who talks bollocks all day long, and posts some of the stupidest shit I've seen put up on this board in the 6 years I been posting, and is someone who pretty much everyone on this board just wishes would **** off a bother someone else.

sasguru
30th June 2009, 10:43
Xog:

Islam is a backward and repressive creed (all religions are really), but:

(1) contrary to cretinous opinion, the UK is not about to become an Islamic state any time soon.
(2) If you are visiting a (non war zone, non-fanatical) Muslim country like Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Oman etc. you are much safer than walking in London.

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 11:00
Xog, you're presenting a reasonable argument (Though you do appear to harbour a passionate dislike for Islam). I reckon most of the points you raise are valid points, but equally we (The Christian west) weren't so different not so long ago, and I believe most of these arguments highlight the worst parts in Islam, not necessarily the norm in most Islamic cultures..The difference is that the Koran is regarded as the word of god as passed to Mohammed (pbuh) and as such is sacrosanct (sp?) to Muslims and is the basis of law in all Islamic countries. The Bible (NT) is a collection of the teachings of Jesus often in parable form and by way of example. What Christians did in the past in no way reflects the teachings of Christ.
The Koran actually says "strike off the hands of thieves" or "give 2/3rds part to your son and 1/3rd part to your daughter". The Hadith is a collection of teachings where Mohamed (pbuh) or his descendants gave guidance on what certain parts of the Koran meant. The Koran just says women should dress modestly. It was about 4 generations later that an Imam actual defined modesty.
I shar Xoggies view that Islam as practiced by the radicals is closest to the Koran, and we must therefore expect that with time all Islamic states will go that way. The Koran itself allows for a milder form of Islam, but there are limits to when it can be so.


CB on the other hand, well he's just an out and out knob who talks bollocks all day long, and posts some of the stupidest tulip I've seen put up on this board in the 6 years I been posting, and is someone who pretty much everyone on this board just wishes would **** off a bother someone else.Amen to that brother.

snaw
30th June 2009, 11:09
I shar Xoggies view that Islam as practiced by the radicals is closest to the Koran, and we must therefore expect that with time all Islamic states will go that way. The Koran itself allows for a milder form of Islam, but there are limits to when it can be so.

I don't know enough about the Koran to make that kind of call, (I have read it). I also have a great mate, who went to a Muslim school here, and who's brother is an imam. He's extremely bright and very knowledgeable about the Koran and he would totally disagree with that statement.

But even if it is so, I don't think it's ever going to happen here, and to me it's just scaremongering to suggest that somehow we're imminently about to turn into an Islamic state.

I believe in the separation of religion and state, so I'd never be to up for arguing for an Islamic state anywheer, but at the end of the day if the majority in a country want that then it's their choice to make.

Many countries, not just Islamic ones, have laws we find reprehensible. But we never see anyone posting about China, or Russia, or indeed India amongst others on this board ...

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 11:19
I don't know enough<snip>...</snip> amongst others on this board ...Pretty much agree with all that. I would differ in a few places but not worth getting into a fight about it.

NotAllThere
30th June 2009, 11:28
The Bible (NT) is a collection of the teachings of Jesus often in parable form and by way of example.

Which can only be said by someone who has never read it.

The bible (NT) is a collection of books and letters:

Four accounts, in quite different styles, of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus, talking about his teaching, which comprised parables, and explanations of those parables, but also what he did, and how various power groups interacted with him.

One account, written by one of the gospel writers, of what various apostles and other people did after the resurrection

13 letters written to various christian groups and individuals, by Paul
1 letter of unknown authorship addressed Jewish christians in Rome

2 letters from Peter
3 letters from John
1 letter from Jude

And the book of Revelations.

NotAllThere
30th June 2009, 11:29
Then again, you don't often see selfdetonating Chinese, Russians or Indians.

Though the use of suicide bombers was quite prevelant among the christians in lebanon.

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 11:31
Safer? Actually that's not necessarily true about Dubai, do a bit of checking, but even assuming it is we could have safer streets in London by rational methods:

a) Bringing up kids with as much emphasis on duties as on rights.

b) Proper control of immigration, not simply to keep out the criminals (the nature of much street crime in London is a matter of Met statistics, not a BNP or Daily Mail invention) but to foster a positive belief in society, to make people feel they have a culture they belong in and which they therefore feel a responsibility to.

c) Having a more sensible justice system, probably a much harsher one where recidivists are concerned. Chances should be for those prepared to take them.

Japan has these qualities and has one of the lowest crime levels in the world despite very low levels of religious belief. Irrational religious beliefs create impediments to pragmatic solutions.

***********
More on topic: Not any time soon maybe but I don't want an Islamic state ever, even long after I am pushing up daisies. I don't want to see the Western world which has evolved so much, despite all the downsides, being dragged backwards into nonsense like that.

In any case, we do not have to be a Muslim state to find our laws influenced by Islam, it is happening now, hence Cyberman's post. Or should we not care about female citizens of the UK because they are Muslim? Other areas where concessions have been made or seriously considered:

a) Tax/benefit law. I don't know what became of it but HMRC was seriously considering taking account of polygamy a couple of years ago.

b) Forced marrriage. The government was considering banning this awful practice but backed down over fear of offending Muslims.

c) Halal food. If we must eat meat I want animals killed humanely. There should be no exceptions on this for Muslims or Jews.

d) Female circumcision. Not a single prosecution despite the thousands carried out every year. Not an official concession to Islam as it is not an official Islamic practice (not discouraged either - see Islamonline) but given the furore over child abuse when any middle aged white bloke has a minor grope do you seriously think this inaction would continue if the main perpetrators were not in fact Muslim?

e) Islamic banking. I don't see any problems with that, seems harmless, but it is another example.

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 11:34
85 Sharia courts in the UK????

Isn't Sharia that Columbian pop tartlett with breast like mountains.

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 11:37
Which can only be said by someone who has never read it.

The bible (NT) is a collection of books and letters:

Four accounts, in quite different styles, of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus, talking about his teaching, which comprised parables, and explanations of those parables, but also what he did, and how various power groups interacted with him.

One account, written by one of the gospel writers, of what various apostles and other people did after the resurrection

13 letters written to various christian groups and individuals, by Paul
1 letter of unknown authorship addressed Jewish christians in Rome

2 letters from Peter
3 letters from John
1 letter from Jude

And the book of Revelations.How does this sort of shit happen?
I write a short sentance precising my view of the NT.
Some tit jumps in saying I must not have read it?
Had I realised that to express an opinion I had to write a 10,000 word essay on the details of the bible I wouldnt have bothered.

Is it not a collection of the teachings of Jesus?
Did Jesus not use the parable form.
Did Jesus not teach by way of example.

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 11:41
How does this sort of tulip happen?
I write a short sentance precising my view of the NT.
Some tit jumps in saying I must not have read it?
Had I realised that to express an opinion I had to write a 10,000 word essay on the details of the bible I wouldnt have bothered.

Is it not a collection of the teachings of Jesus?
Did Jesus not use the parable form.
Did Jesus not teach by way of example.

Blessed are the Greek

Blessed are the Cheese Makers.

Just remember we are all individuals.....

Alf W
30th June 2009, 11:54
Nobody's mentioned the existence of Jewish Courts (Beth Din?) have they?

What's the big deal anyway? If people of a certain religious persuasion want to mutually settle civil disputes according to their own cultural values then let them get on with it. It's not doing the rest of us any harm. It's not like these courts are sentencing people to stonings or having bits of them chopped off.

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 11:57
I think a general point about most religions is that one cannot precisely tie practice to sacred text for the simple reason that the vast majority of the adherents haven't actually read or studied them.

I can still recall times when we looked at the bible at my Catholic primary school because it was such a rare event, our version of Catholicism was what our teachers taught us. Mostly it was a dim witty* Irish spinster version in which rubbish like plenary indulgences and how you should say your confession prayers was more important than what Christ supposedly said.

From a Times article I gather Pakistani Madrassas make students learn the Qu'ran by heart in Arabic, they don't have a clue what it means.

What we don't appreciate in this supposedly literate age is that few people read much and most religion is still imparted by word of mouth. That is what makes it so dangerous when you allow the radicals a free rein, whether Mullahs or loony fundamentalist Christians.

* Being part Irish I am allowed to say that.

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 11:58
Nobody's mentioned the existence of Jewish Courts (Beth Din?) have they?

What's the big deal anyway? If people of a certain religious persuasion want to mutually settle civil disputes according to their own cultural values then let them get on with it. It's not doing the rest of us any harm. It's not like these courts are sentencing people to stonings or having bits of them chopped off.

By Jehovah that posting was good.......

Mich the Tester
30th June 2009, 12:04
Do you think they'll stone CyberFool?

sasguru
30th June 2009, 12:06
Do you think they'll stone CyberFool?


Old gay queens like him are strangely quite tolerated in Islamic society.
He may even get lucky.

snaw
30th June 2009, 12:07
Do you think they'll stone CyberFool?

We can only live in hope.

NotAllThere
30th June 2009, 12:08
How does this sort of tulip happen? Because it's CUK, I thought you'd be used to it by now.


Is it not a collection of the teachings of Jesus? No. The teachings of Jesus comprise a very small proportion. Most of it is the teachings of Paul.

Did Jesus not use the parable form.Yes. And that comprises an even smaller proportation of his teachings.



...Just remember we are all individuals.....

I'm not.

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 12:09
Book of Revelations. Aha! time for a discussion of the rationality of Rastifarianism but as they don't attempt to impose their views on anyone else maybe not.

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 12:09
Do you think they'll stone CyberFool?

A wiser society would recognise that CyberFool really needs to get stoned

Menelaus
30th June 2009, 12:11
I'm aware that Churchill (:wave:)and I've both lived and worked in a Wahhabist state where Islam is absolutely on the doorstep, 24/7.

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 12:14
I'm aware that Churchill (:wave:)and I've both lived and worked in a Wahhabist state where Islam is absolutely on the doorstep, 24/7.

Is that a state that likes very hot Japanese Horseraddish.

Oh no that is Wassabist

Taxi.........

Menelaus
30th June 2009, 12:14
Is that a state that likes very hot Japanese Horseraddish.

Oh no that is Wassabist

Taxi.........

Coat for blackenedbiker?

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 12:14
Shut up big nose... :smokin


Who you calling Big Nose

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 12:32
As I said, we are sleepwalking to an Islamic state and sharia is incompatible with human rights and our democracy and laws:


Polygamy is now more or less accepted.

Treating women as second-class citizens is accepted... muslim married women have to accede to sex on demand. This is totally against the Human Rights Act.

Intimidation is rife in Sharia whereas in law especially this should be totally unacceptable. The courts are behind closed doors which means that fairness or intimidation is impossible to check, whereas British Courts are open to the public to ensure that justice is seen to be done.

No muslim woman may marry a muslim man unless he converts to lslam and children can be confiscated until she marries a muslim.

A male child belongs to the father after it is the age of seven, regardless of circumstances.


:suicide:

ace00
30th June 2009, 12:51
....CyberFool really needs to get stoned

Is that a cunning play on words ?

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 12:51
As I said, we are sleepwalking to an Islamic state and sharia is incompatible with human rights and our democracy and laws:<snip>So you would use the human rights act and democracy to remove a Muslims human and democratic right to freedom of religion?
Just because Islamic values do not meet your values you must not make the mistake of denying a Muslims right to live by them.

NotAllThere
30th June 2009, 12:53
So you would use the human rights act and democracy to remove a Muslims human and democratic right to freedom of religion?...

I would. Insofar as the right to freedom to practice certain aspects of religion goes against other fundemental human rights.

lilelvis2000
30th June 2009, 13:00
As I said, we are sleepwalking to an Islamic state and sharia is incompatible with human rights and our democracy and laws:


Polygamy is now more or less accepted.

Treating women as second-class citizens is accepted... muslim married women have to accede to sex on demand. This is totally against the Human Rights Act.

Intimidation is rife in Sharia whereas in law especially this should be totally unacceptable. The courts are behind closed doors which means that fairness or intimidation is impossible to check, whereas British Courts are open to the public to ensure that justice is seen to be done.

No muslim woman may marry a muslim man unless he converts to lslam and children can be confiscated until she marries a muslim.

A male child belongs to the father after it is the age of seven, regardless of circumstances.


:suicide:

Where do you get this drivel anyway? The "courts" are nothing more than arbitration and pretty well every arbitration system I know of is done in private.


I can't believe the amount of postings created by some half-brain racist twat who doesn't like 2% of the population to have a arbitration system which follows their relegious beliefs..their relegious beliefs which they have every entitlement to follow. How Ironic that you would use the Human Rights Act to restrict the Human Rights of people you don't like.

Bizarre.

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 13:00
So you would use the human rights act and democracy to remove a Muslims human and democratic right to freedom of religion?
Just because Islamic values do not meet your values you must not make the mistake of denying a Muslims right to live by them.


You can't have it both ways. Either you have law or you don't. If Islam conflicts with the human rights act and their followers can ignore it then why shouldn't I also ignore it. :laugh

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 13:03
Where do you get this drivel anyway? The "courts" are nothing more than arbitration and pretty well every arbitration system I know of is done in private.


I can't believe the amount of postings created by some half-brain racist twat who doesn't like 2% of the population to have a arbitration system which follows their relegious beliefs..their relegious beliefs which they have every entitlement to follow. How Ironic that you would use the Human Rights Act to restrict the Human Rights of people you don't like.

Bizarre.



I would use the Human Rights Act ? That is indeed bizarre, as I thought the HRA is something that I and every law abiding citizen had to conform to. Crazy Booby !! :laugh

lilelvis2000
30th June 2009, 13:03
You can't have it both ways. Either you have law or you don't. If Islam conflicts with the human rights act and their followers can ignore it then why shouldn't I also ignore it. :laugh

You probably do....how often do to speed, drop litter, lie on your income tax return?

lilelvis2000
30th June 2009, 13:05
I would use the Human Rights Act ? That is indeed bizarre, as I thought the HRA is something that I and every law abiding citizen had to conform to. Crazy Booby !! :laugh

You obviously don't know anything about the HRA.

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 13:05
You probably do....how often do to speed, drop litter, lie on your income tax return?


I never drop litter or lie on my tax return. Speeding ?..... well that is different !! :laugh

sasguru
30th June 2009, 13:16
I never drop litter or lie on my tax return. Speeding ?..... well that is different !! :laugh

What about making your curtains more crusty? You do plenty of that. Don't worry it's allowed under Sharia Law.

BlackenedBiker
30th June 2009, 13:18
What about making your curtains more crusty? You do plenty of that. Don't worry it's allowed under Sharia Law.

WE are on fire sadgrunt

Mod that :moon:

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 13:30
The problem with Cyberman's "drivel" is that (apart from a missing non typo in para 3) it isn't, none of it.

It is complete nonsense to compare Shariah courts with arbitration. If you check the latter you will find that a major pillar of it, within the limits of UK law obviously, is that judgement is given by an IMPARTIAL third person.

Impartiality within UK law cannot apply to Shariah courts where there are built in assumptions over issues like marriage, custody of children or inheritance which are totally at odds with British laws and ethics.

You may as well hand arbitration on a boundary dispute to one of the neighbour's relatives and call that fair and open.

original PM
30th June 2009, 13:34
hmm may as well chuck in my uninformed 2 pence worth

I have no problems with people worshipping whatever they want - as long as it does not affect another person in any way shape or form.

And thats the problem - the teachings of Islam seem to point towards certain fundamental breaches of human rights - and that is just out of order.

also does any other religion have an equivalent of a Jihad?

I know the Christians had the crusades but that was like 800 years ago

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 13:45
The problem with Cyberman's "drivel" is that (apart from a missing non typo in para 3) it isn't, none of it.

It is complete nonsense to compare Shariah courts with arbitration. If you check the latter you will find that a major pillar of it, within the limits of UK law obviously, is that judgement is given by an IMPARTIAL third person.

Impartiality within UK law cannot apply to Shariah courts where there are built in assumptions over issues like marriage, custody of children or inheritance which are totally at odds with British laws and ethics.

You may as well hand arbitration on a boundary dispute to one of the neighbour's relatives and call that fair and open.That is twisting it somewhat.
Any Arbitration service basically acts as a referee in a dispute. They are asked to arbitrate either because they are impartial or because they are experts.
Muslims just want their experts to rule acording to their religious beliefs. As far as the two parties are concerned the Imam is impartial.

It is perfectly OK for a married couple to go to a lawyer to settle a divorce. They can ask the lawyer to write up an greement that they will bothe stick to. That agreement ONLY has to be valid under UK law. It can be as biased as you like as long as it is legal.

Believe it or not there are some Muslim women who believe in the Koran over human rights laws. These women actualy find it offensive that their religious beliefs can be discarded or ignored by a local court. They want to live according to Islam. A sharia court agreement allows them to do this.

FSM with Cheddar
30th June 2009, 14:26
also does any other religion have an equivalent of a Jihad?

I know the Christians had the crusades but that was like 800 years ago

Exactly, the only difference between the two religions is 800 years.

Islam needs to modernise like the Christians have done, and are still doing.

lilelvis2000
30th June 2009, 15:07
Exactly, the only difference between the two religions is 800 years.

Islam needs to modernise like the Christians have done, and are still doing.

The only think happening with Christians is they are leaving the relegion. The evangelicals are taking up the fight still. Last week they were out and about around here telling everyone they are going to hell.

NotAllThere
30th June 2009, 15:11
...telling everyone they are going to hell.

Hey man - they're just sharing the good news. What I want to know is - if that's the good news, what's the bad news.:eek:

PM-Junkie
30th June 2009, 15:21
The only think happening with Christians is they are leaving the relegion. The evangelicals are taking up the fight still. Last week they were out and about around here telling everyone they are going to hell.
Yes it's a giggle isn't it? This god of theirs apparently loves all his children, but if any of them do something he doesn't like and don't say sorry then he'll make them burn for eternity. Obviously a use of the word "love" with which I am not familiar.

Takes "child" abuse to a whole new level.

NotAllThere
30th June 2009, 15:32
Yes it's a giggle isn't it? This god of theirs apparently loves all his children, but if any of them do something he doesn't like and don't say sorry then he'll make them burn for eternity. Obviously a use of the word "love" with which I am not familiar.

Takes "child" abuse to a whole new level.

Not really, if the children in question are adults. I mean, if I beat my children with a bit of 2x4 when they're over 18, it's criminal assault. But not child abuse.

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 15:47
That is twisting it somewhat.
Any Arbitration service basically acts as a referee in a dispute. They are asked to arbitrate either because they are impartial or because they are experts.
Muslims just want their experts to rule acording to their religious beliefs. As far as the two parties are concerned the Imam is impartial.

It is perfectly OK for a married couple to go to a lawyer to settle a divorce. They can ask the lawyer to write up an greement that they will bothe stick to. That agreement ONLY has to be valid under UK law. It can be as biased as you like as long as it is legal.

Believe it or not there are some Muslim women who believe in the Koran over human rights laws. These women actualy find it offensive that their religious beliefs can be discarded or ignored by a local court. They want to live according to Islam. A sharia court agreement allows them to do this.



These people are in the UK for heavens sake !! We have our own laws and they should abide or sod off. Would Pakistan or Iran allow me to practise my own British Law in their countries alongside Islam ? Could I open my own Christian Church there without persecution ? Thought not !! :suicide:

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 15:48
Exactly, the only difference between the two religions is 800 years.

Islam needs to modernise like the Christians have done, and are still doing.


They can modernise by adopting our laws in our own country. Simple !!:suicide:

Alf W
30th June 2009, 16:08
Wow, I didn't realise that you got exclusive Muslim Scout (http://www.berkshirescouts.org.uk/index_nav.php?cat=berkshire_scouts&sub=scoutsaroundberkshire&page=reading_muslim_scout_group)groups operating in Berkshire. A perfect example of integration into Middle England.

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 16:12
Wow, I didn't realise that you got exclusive Muslim Scout (http://www.berkshirescouts.org.uk/index_nav.php?cat=berkshire_scouts&sub=scoutsaroundberkshire&page=reading_muslim_scout_group)groups operating in Berkshire. A perfect example of integration into Middle England.


Truly worrying isn't it !! ... and they have the nerve to complain about the BNP with its restrictions on membership. :eek

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 16:58
These people are in the UK for heavens sake !! We have our own laws and they should abide or sod off. Would Pakistan or Iran allow me to practise my own British Law in their countries alongside Islam ? Could I open my own Christian Church there without persecution ? Thought not !! :suicide:Oh FFS. Which part of this do you not get. Just how f***ing thick are you?
They are completely abiding by our laws. The Sharia courts can not make a decision that will break UK law.
They are just getting a Sharia ruling on whatever dispute there is.

snaw
30th June 2009, 17:20
Just how f***ing thick are you?


I think CB has redefined the scale!

original PM
30th June 2009, 17:42
Hmm I think Snaw and The Lone Gunman are going over the top

I am pretty sure that Cyberman is aware that Sharia law does not superseed UK law but the point he is making is about the lack of intgration into a society which has bent over backwards to be accomodating is a touch dissapointing and if something is not done then there will be a continuation of the segregation to a point where Sharia law is taken to the streets and UK law will be to weak and liberal to fight it.

In fact Snaw you seem to jump down Cybermans throat as soon as he opens his mouth - he may be a sock puppet and in fact so might you be - in fact you may be the same person arguing with yourself for kicks

Personally I think he is nobbing your bird though.

The Lone Gunman
30th June 2009, 18:03
Hmm I think Snaw and The Lone Gunman are going over the top

I am pretty sure that Cyberman is aware that Sharia law does not superseed UK law but the point he is making is about the lack of intgration into a society which has bent over backwards to be accomodating is a touch dissapointing and if something is not done then there will be a continuation of the segregation to a point where Sharia law is taken to the streets and UK law will be to weak and liberal to fight it.

In fact Snaw you seem to jump down Cybermans throat as soon as he opens his mouth - he may be a sock puppet and in fact so might you be - in fact you may be the same person arguing with yourself for kicks

Personally I think he is nobbing your bird though.Cybertwat makes it quite apparent that he has no clue about anything except his own raving hatred of Islam. The only thing I am sure of is his ignorance on the subject.

I am no lover of Islam, a number of members here have accused me of racism on the subject. I am reasonably well informed and well read on the subject.
Tossers like Cybertwat undermine my arguments by associating their rabid ravings with me allowing the opposition to point and laugh and I end up having to defend an argument not of my making.

Sharia courts are a distraction.
Muslim Scouts are a distraction.
There are real issues here that get sidelined by these stupid distractions.

Cyberman
30th June 2009, 20:29
Oh FFS. Which part of this do you not get. Just how f***ing thick are you?
They are completely abiding by our laws. The Sharia courts can not make a decision that will break UK law.
They are just getting a Sharia ruling on whatever dispute there is.


They are NOT abiding by our laws. We have a law against bigamy for a start but muslims practise bigamy(it is legal and known as polygamy under Islam) in the UK. It really is you who is thick because that is just one example of british law being disregarded by muslims and our HMG being frightened to do anything about it. YOU ARE THICK. REPEAT.... YOU ARE THICK... NOT ME. :tired

GreenerGrass
30th June 2009, 20:35
The only think happening with Christians is they are leaving the relegion. The evangelicals are taking up the fight still. Last week they were out and about around here telling everyone they are going to hell.

I really don't know what is worse, evangelical Christians who are nearly as backward and crazy as Islamists. Or weak fools like the current Archbishop of Canterbury who go to great lengths to appease and suck up to other more dominant religions (almost embarrassed of their own faith in case it offends someone) while their own is decaying.
Neither of the above doctrines are going to encourage people into Christianity.
I think the only new Christians in this country are recent immigrants from Africa.

Addanc
30th June 2009, 20:53
The courts are behind closed doors which means that fairness or intimidation is impossible to check, whereas British Courts are open to the public to ensure that justice is seen to be done.

Unless they are family/child courts (whatever there called?) where the UK state can legally abduct children from their parents with no public scrutiny.

TykeMerc
30th June 2009, 22:27
There's a very simple solution to Cyberman posting utter bollocks and it's called the ignore list.

If everyone ignores him and noone quotes him he will get bored eventually and bugger off. Sending someone to coventry is surprisingly effective.

xoggoth
30th June 2009, 22:54
Coventry? It's full of Muslims.

The Lone Gunman
1st July 2009, 07:09
There's a very simple solution to Cyberman posting utter bollocks and it's called the ignore list.

If everyone ignores him and noone quotes him he will get bored eventually and bugger off. Sending someone to coventry is surprisingly effective.That does not work. We have to challenge those we disagree with otherwise we are open to accusations as have been levelled in the past. If someone makes a racist comment which goes unchallenged then someone else will accuse us of being racist because we did not challenge them.
Idiocy on the scale of CyberArse also undermines the legitimate concerns of others. People end up putting all arguments supported by him in the CyberTit boat and labelling them stupid or unimportant.
That is why he should be challenged.

Many years ago on another board a sockpuppet posted a number times in favour of IR35. That poster was quoted in the House of Commons as representative of our views. That was disputed as there were hundreds of posts to the contrary.
How would we have defended that if there had been no posts against?

The Lone Gunman
1st July 2009, 07:14
They are NOT abiding by our laws. We have a law against bigamy for a start but muslims practise bigamy(it is legal and known as polygamy under Islam) in the UK. It really is you who is thick because that is just one example of british law being disregarded by muslims and our HMG being frightened to do anything about it. YOU ARE THICK. REPEAT.... YOU ARE THICK... NOT ME. :tiredIf you know of a UK citizen who has entered into a bigamous marriage then report them to the Police, then report back with the results.
Polygamy is legal and practiced in a number of religions and we have to recognise that fact.

I am not sure of British law here so am guessing, but I will check.
It is illegal for a British citizen to enter into a bigamous mariage no matter what there religion.
A migrant with more than one wife can only bring one wife into the UK.
Non registered marriages do not count as they can never be legally recognised. They are effectively like 2 kids playing lets pretend.

If the UK does allow this then a lot of noise needs to be made.

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 07:25
If you know of a UK citizen who has entered into a bigamous marriage then report them to the Police, then report back with the results.
Polygamy is legal and practiced in a number of religions and we have to recognise that fact.

I am not sure of British law here so am guessing, but I will check.
It is illegal for a British citizen to enter into a bigamous mariage no matter what there religion.
A migrant with more than one wife can only bring one wife into the UK.
Non registered marriages do not count as they can never be legally recognised. They are effectively like 2 kids playing lets pretend.

If the UK does allow this then a lot of noise needs to be made.



You are incredibly naive. There was a documentary on the BBC this year regarding how muslims are breaking the bigamy laws by sneaking wives in as cousins and housekeepers etc and how muslim men were claiming benefits for multiple wives in the UK.

HMG will not do anything because there will be uproar from the muslim community and of course they do not want to lose votes. What is going on is scandalous and it is no wonder that we are seeing the rise of the BNP.

You should apologise for being so rude, ignorant and arrogant in your previous post as I have proven you to be totally wrong in your ignorant assertions that I do not know what I am talking about. Sadly, I know only too well what is going on and our great country is going down the pan. :suicide:

snaw
1st July 2009, 07:39
You should apologise for being so rude, ignorant and arrogant in your previous post as I have proven you to be totally wrong in your ignorant assertions that I do not know what I am talking about.


Ok if we're playing that game, then me personally and this board collectivity is due about 700 apologies from you, and that's being conservative based no once per day of posting.

ThomasSoerensen
1st July 2009, 07:45
Treating women as second-class citizens is accepted... muslim married women have to accede to sex on demand. This is totally against the Human Rights Act.



In the UK, only in 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_rape)did spousal rape / marital rape become a crime.

Talk about being backwards.
:bluelight

The Lone Gunman
1st July 2009, 07:50
You are incredibly naive. There was a documentary on the BBC this year regarding how muslims are breaking the bigamy laws by sneaking wives in as cousins and housekeepers etc and how muslim men were claiming benefits for multiple wives in the UK.

HMG will not do anything because there will be uproar from the muslim community and of course they do not want to lose votes. What is going on is scandalous and it is no wonder that we are seeing the rise of the BNP.

You should apologise for being so rude, ignorant and arrogant in your previous post as I have proven you to be totally wrong in your ignorant assertions that I do not know what I am talking about. Sadly, I know only too well what is going on and our great country is going down the pan. :suicide:You have proven fook all. Your arguments are based on hearsay and rumour.
If you can prove that Sharia courts are making decisions which go against UK law then a I will apologise as that was the original argument.

Believe it or not I am anti Islam, sometimes fiercely so and I believe that Islam is undermining a lot of Western societies. I see my culture being subverted on an almost daily basis.
I believe that to oppose this properly we have to have a balanced attitude and not respond to sensational ramblings and rantings such as yours.

I want to live in a multi cultural society where all creeds are accepted respected. I do not believe Islam is capable of that and that gives me a huge moral dillema.

NotAllThere
1st July 2009, 07:51
I really don't know what is worse, evangelical Christians who are nearly as backward and crazy as Islamists....

I think you're confusing American style evangelical and fundies, and the European style. The official church in many cantons of Switzerland is "Evangelisch-reformierte Kirche" (along with the Catholic Church). In fact, Evangelical is almost synonymous with Protestant.

In the Uk, there are two main types of Protestant - Evangelical and Liberal. The former hold to a traditional bible interpretation, but are by no means fundies. ( The previous Arch Bish was evangelical ). The latter subscribe to a more social interpretation. Note that Liberal here has a specific meaning in terms of theological stance - it's got nothing to do with political or social liberalism.

Interestingly, the Liberal and Evangelical wings were both split over the issue of women priests.

That's not to say that there aren't american style evangelical churches in the UK...

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 08:22
You have proven fook all. Your arguments are based on hearsay and rumour.
If you can prove that Sharia courts are making decisions which go against UK law then a I will apologise as that was the original argument.

Believe it or not I am anti Islam, sometimes fiercely so and I believe that Islam is undermining a lot of Western societies. I see my culture being subverted on an almost daily basis.
I believe that to oppose this properly we have to have a balanced attitude and not respond to sensational ramblings and rantings such as yours.

I want to live in a multi cultural society where all creeds are accepted respected. I do not believe Islam is capable of that and that gives me a huge moral dillema.



I am not anti-Islam either as long as Sharia Law is conducted outside of the UK, BUT all muslims must abide by British Law in the UK or go to an Islamic State and practise whatever they want. If they are willing to integrate then fine, but many obviously do not want to. The Hijab should be banned and all schools should be multi-religious..... NO SEGREGATION !!


Failure to integrate means civil unrest before too long. :suicide:

snaw
1st July 2009, 08:26
I am not anti-Islam either as long as Sharia Law is conducted outside of the UK, BUT all muslims must abide by British Law in the UK or go to an Islamic State and practise whatever they want. If they are willing to integrate then fine, but many obviously do not want to. The Hijab should be banned and all schools should be multi-religious..... NO SEGREGATION !!


Failure to integrate means civil unrest before too long. :suicide:

All muslims do abide by UK law you moron!

And we have plenty of religious schools, many more catholic than muslim, or CoE, and plenty of Jewish.

Even the people on your side of the argument think you're a liabilty. Pls, just **** off, leave us in peace from your idiotic rantings.

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 08:28
All muslims do abide by UK law you moron!

And we have plenty of religious schools, many more catholic than muslim, or CoE, and plenty of Jewish.

Even the people on your side of the argument think you're a liabilty. Pls, just **** off, leave us in peace from your idiotic rantings.



You're an idiot. :spank:

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 09:22
I am not anti-Islam either as long as Sharia Law is conducted outside of the UK, BUT all muslims must abide by British Law in the UK or go to an Islamic State and practise whatever they want. If they are willing to integrate then fine, but many obviously do not want to. The Hijab should be banned and all schools should be multi-religious..... NO SEGREGATION !!


Failure to integrate means civil unrest before too long. :suicide:

You seem to be cut and pasting these from various websites. Why have a problem with relegious schools? And you've pretty well contradicted yourself there. and not for the first time.

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 09:26
You have proven fook all. Your arguments are based on hearsay and rumour.
If you can prove that Sharia courts are making decisions which go against UK law then a I will apologise as that was the original argument.

Believe it or not I am anti Islam, sometimes fiercely so and I believe that Islam is undermining a lot of Western societies. I see my culture being subverted on an almost daily basis.
I believe that to oppose this properly we have to have a balanced attitude and not respond to sensational ramblings and rantings such as yours.

I want to live in a multi cultural society where all creeds are accepted respected. I do not believe Islam is capable of that and that gives me a huge moral dillema.

Well I'm sure when the world was being colonized I'm sure a lot of the natives thought the same thing as well.

These are two relegion which are bent on running the world. lets just face that fact that this fire will rage for eons.

I've lived here for five years...and I've got no clue what the culture is..football, football, football and beer, beer, beer with the odd music weekend thrown in. These ethnics have far more fun. Maybe there's nothing to integrate into?

TimberWolf
1st July 2009, 09:33
If people want five wives why don't they marry and divorce them one at a time like civilised people :confused:

xoggoth
1st July 2009, 09:53
They can't afford it?

TimberWolf
1st July 2009, 09:54
Well at least it isn't illegal to have 5 girlfriends.

Andy2
1st July 2009, 10:01
How does it work if you have 2 wives
Do they have threesome every night ? :banana:

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 10:08
I was watching polygumous wives the other night on Sky 3. A man in california is married to a bi-sexual who is in a lesbian relationship. All of them live together.

There was also another threesome where the man was introduced to a younger woman by his wife.

I didin't watch more than that...I got bored.

Alf W
1st July 2009, 10:17
I was watching polygumous wives the other night on Sky 3. A man in california is married to a bi-sexual who is in a lesbian relationship. All of them live together.

There was also another threesome where the man was introduced to a younger woman by his wife.

I didin't watch more than that...I got bored.

Sure it was Sky3!!!!

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 10:39
Sure it was Sky3!!!!

http://www.bleb.org/tv/channel.html?ch=sky_three&all&day=-1

scroll down the list..its there. Tried to find on the sky listing site..but couldn't pull up last nights lists...didn't seem to be a way to do that.

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 11:36
You seem to be cut and pasting these from various websites. Why have a problem with relegious schools? And you've pretty well contradicted yourself there. and not for the first time.


... because religious schools obviously promote segregation. DOH!!! :tired

minestrone
1st July 2009, 11:41
... because religious schools obviously promote segregation. DOH!!! :tired

With that logic if there is more than one school then that promotes segregation. Should we just get one big school in the middle of the country that we can send our children to, well not you, you old queen.

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 11:43
With that logic if there is more than one school then that promotes segregation. Should we just get one big school in the middle of the country that we can send our children to, well not you, you old queen.


Well, I'm not surprised you don't understand the logic, but the fact is that religious schools are a barrier to integration. Pillock !! :tired

minestrone
1st July 2009, 11:47
Well, I'm not surprised you don't understand the logic, but the fact is that religious schools are a barrier to integration. Pillock !! :tired

Integrate with you!?!? Do you want us all to run about the gay bars wearing a leather cap and arseless trousers like yourself?

original PM
1st July 2009, 11:49
I went to a Catholic School

It did not promote segregation however it did promote Catholic Values as being better than values of other relegions especially on topics such as abortion.

However the Catholic religion does not promote intolerance of other religions or of the rights of other people to follow which ever relegion they wish.

Does the same tolerance exist in the Muslim religion?

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 12:02
I went to a Catholic School

It did not promote segregation however it did promote Catholic Values as being better than values of other relegions especially on topics such as abortion.

However the Catholic religion does not promote intolerance of other religions or of the rights of other people to follow which ever relegion they wish.

Does the same tolerance exist in the Muslim religion?



When I say promote, I don't mean directly promote. The promotion is by default purely by the fact that kids of one religion will not mix daily at school with kids of another religion. If all children only ever went to schools of their own religion we would be building barriers between children based on religion, which commonsense says would be damaging to integration and thus also damaging to society. :smokin

original PM
1st July 2009, 12:13
It is fine to bring your children up so they understand people are different in fact it is important they understand that.

The line is crossed however if different implies better or worse.

The Catholic school I went to highlighted different but never better or worse as that is a matter of opinion and not fact and it is up to children to be given the facts and let them form their opinion and not have opinions thrust upon them by biggotted muppets.

Coalman
1st July 2009, 12:26
When I say promote, I don't mean directly promote. The promotion is by default purely by the fact that kids of one religion will not mix daily at school with kids of another religion. If all children only ever went to schools of their own religion we would be building barriers between children based on religion, which commonsense says would be damaging to integration and thus also damaging to society. :smokin

This happens without religion. The ability for people to select the schools they go to force an economic segrgation (i.e. sink schools, etc). This is just as damaging as religous schools in my view.

Following your argument all schools should be state schools, all taught to the same standards. No private schools, no grammer schools, etc.

Is this what you really want?

People are allowed freedom of choice, that is the great thing about our society and culture. Religous schools and sharia courts, etc. are not the problem. It is the impotence of the police and judicial service to do anything about things when these institutions break UK law (if they do - I've not seen any proof).

I think the anger and vitriol here is incrediably misguided.

I apologise for poor spelling and grammer, I was enducated under the tories when the edukation system rocked!!

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 12:47
This happens without religion. The ability for people to select the schools they go to force an economic segrgation (i.e. sink schools, etc). This is just as damaging as religous schools in my view.

Following your argument all schools should be state schools, all taught to the same standards. No private schools, no grammer schools, etc.

Is this what you really want?

People are allowed freedom of choice, that is the great thing about our society and culture. Religous schools and sharia courts, etc. are not the problem. It is the impotence of the police and judicial service to do anything about things when these institutions break UK law (if they do - I've not seen any proof).

I think the anger and vitriol here is incrediably misguided.

I apologise for poor spelling and grammer, I was enducated under the tories when the edukation system rocked!!



Abolition of some grammar schools has actually caused greater integration although lowered the standard of education generally. But seriously, you cannot compare religious segregation with educational segregation.

Segregating the intelligent from those that need special attention in order to keep up can only be a good thing, so that kids that have the ability to learn more quickly can, and thus benefit UK PLC in the long-run.

I actually practise segregation on this BB by putting morons such as Snore and Crassguru on my ignore list. So there are times when it can be beneficial. :laugh

NotAllThere
1st July 2009, 12:48
Well, I'm not surprised you don't understand the logic, but the fact is that religious schools are a barrier to integration.

Don't they teach calculus then?


...I apologise for poor spelling and grammer, I was enducated under the tories when the edukation system rocked!! I was also educated under the tories, and my grammar and spelling are excellent. Private school, naturally. :happy

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 12:49
... because religious schools obviously promote segregation. DOH!!! :tired

Any proof? Oh wait your statements are all the proof we need because you know everything. Well..at least what you get off the various websites you read and then paste onto here.

This society is segregated already..the rich hang out with the rich, the middle class hang out with the middle class and royalty that have orgies amongst themselves. Very rarely is there any intermixing going on between these groups. Do you also have a solution for that?

Cyberman
1st July 2009, 12:50
Any proof? Oh wait your statements are all the proof we need because you know everything. Well..at least what you get off the various websites you read and then paste onto here.

This society is segregated already..the rich hang out with the rich, the middle class hang out with the middle class and royalty that have orgies amongst themselves. Very rarely is there any intermixing going on between these groups. Do you also have a solution for that?


If you need proof for a commonsense observation then you really do have a problem. :laugh

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 12:51
I actually practise segregation on this BB by putting morons such as Snore and Crassguru on my ignore list. So there are times when it can be beneficial. :laugh

Isn't that discrimination?

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 12:51
If you need proof for a commonsense observation then you really do have a problem. :laugh

You have commonsense? I've yet to see any...

ace00
1st July 2009, 12:51
..........
However the Catholic religion does not promote intolerance of other religions or of the rights of other people to follow which ever relegion they wish.
............

Mmmm - there's a fair few Native South Americans who might disagree with that. Not to mention former Spanish Jews, heretics and other non-believers.
Or did they not tell you about Torquemada?

NotAllThere
1st July 2009, 12:55
And other Christians such as the Hugenots.

Coalman
1st July 2009, 12:57
Abolition of some grammar schools has actually caused greater integration although lowered the standard of education generally. But seriously, you cannot compare religious segregation with educational segregation.

Segregating the intelligent from those that need special attention in order to keep up can only be a good thing, so that kids that have the ability to learn more quickly can, and thus benefit UK PLC in the long-run.

I actually practise segregation on this BB by putting morons such as Snore and Crassguru on my ignore list. So there are times when it can be beneficial. :laugh

You obvously did not read my post correctly. Nowhere do I mention segragation by ability. I only mention segregation by economic ability. That is just as damaging as the current level of religous segregation.

xoggoth
1st July 2009, 15:18
Hmm, quick flip through.

Ah yes, Torquemada as a valid comparison with present day Islam, what do a few centuries matter? And normal class divisions are certainly comparable to those between a modern secular state and fundamentalist Islam. And a sane retort to a comment on faith schools promoting division? "You may as well say all schools should be in the same place" Love the argument.

There are some idiots on this board and Cyberman isn't one of them. As stated on another thread I am somewhat surprised by the abusive nature of comments by Snaw and Sas, bright chaps both, but if some others have a single logically functioning brain cell it isn't very apparent.

lilelvis2000
1st July 2009, 15:54
Oh we had a fun day didn't we!

Andy2
2nd July 2009, 08:32
bump

Cyberman
2nd July 2009, 09:16
Latest news this morning is that forced marriages have risen by 300%. :sick

sasguru
2nd July 2009, 09:21
Latest news this morning is that forced marriages have risen by 300%. :sick

There's hope for you yet , you old queen. :laugh

minestrone
2nd July 2009, 09:24
There's hope for you yet , you old queen. :laugh


Always the bridesmaid never the groom.

sasguru
2nd July 2009, 09:26
Always the bridesmaid never the groom.

I get the feeling Cyber is more the bride type, if you get my drift.

minestrone
2nd July 2009, 09:30
I get the feeling Cyber is more the bride type, if you get my drift.

Less Magnum PI, more Higgins.

lilelvis2000
2nd July 2009, 09:58
Latest news this morning is that forced marriages have risen by 300%. :sick

Then there's a chance for you yet!