Wealth creating jobs

[Peoplesoft bloke]

This came up on the protectionism thread. Obvious candidates for non-wealth creating jobs would be any public service role, but what about service industries ? How do you define a wealth creating occupation?

[sweetandsour]

This came up on the protectionism thread. Obvious candidates for non-wealth creating jobs would be any public service role, but what about service industries ? How do you define a wealth creating occupation?

I have to add VAT to my invoices so surely I am "adding value" and therefore creating wealth?

[TimberWolf]

Why aren't public sector jobs not classed as wealth creating industries?

[Cyberman]

Private enterprise that makes a profit and pays taxes is wealth-creating, as opposed to the public sector that is a blood-sucking parasite.

[DimPrawn]

Why aren't public sector jobs not classed as wealth creating industries?

Are you having a larf?

[expat]

Why aren't public sector jobs not classed as wealth creating industries?

This is a good question, that will probably get nothing but stupid reactions here.

What is wealth-creating? The answer is not nearly as simple as most CUKers. Sorry, I mean not as simple as most CUKers will probably think.

Public sector jobs that encourage trade or tourism? Are they wealth-creating?
Private sector jobs that encourage spending (advertising, for example)? Do they actually create wealth?

How about a private sector job that increases the efficiency of farming or manufacturing? Does that create wealth, or merely help the real creators of wealth? (Note: Adam Smith thought the latter).

Then what about a public sector job that does the same?


Is a job necessarily wealth-creating if it produces a profit and pays taxes? Possibly the profit is not created, but merely taken from somewhere else. And of course paying taxes is no more a wealth-creating activity than is collecting taxes: these activities merely move money around.


So what does create wealth?

[mace]

Any new idea e.g. energy saving, id cards scheme generates jobs and hence wealth. Wealth decreasing jobs are jobs that are protected and could be done more efficiently if opened up to competition e.g. barrister, investment banker, politician.

[The Lone Gunman]

As it was me who posted the original maybe I should try and explain what I meant.
I am not talking about creating personal wealth. In that case any job is wealth creating to the individual.
Basically what I meant by wealth creation relies on creating stuff to sell or selling other peoples products. People who take nothing, or some raw material and add value with their effort.

Public service jobs do not create wealth (except for the holder of the job). They absorb wealth from the tax system. If there was nobody to pay tax there would be no jobs.
Other service industry jobs rely on the fact that there are customers to be serviced who have wealth creating jobs.

I hope that makes sense and answers the question.

[edit]And yes expat it is an over simplification because explaining all the (very good) examples you give would take forever though the nit picking of "what about A, B, C" will start accordingly.

[expat]

As it was me who posted the original maybe I should try and explain what I meant.
I am not talking about creating personal wealth. In that case any job is wealth creating to the individual.
Basically what I meant by wealth creation relies on creating stuff to sell or selling other peoples products. People who take nothing, or some raw material and add value with their effort.

Public service jobs do not create wealth (except for the holder of the job). They absorb wealth from the tax system. If there was nobody to pay tax there would be no jobs.
Other service industry jobs rely on the fact that there are customers to be serviced who have wealth creating jobs.

I hope that makes sense and answers the question.

It does make sense and does attempt to answer the question, itself no mean feat in this emotive subject. But It doesn't quite ring true.

Do you call a job wealth-creating if it does not itself create any wealth directly but it does help others create wealth? If you do, then you must allow that, say, tourist boards are wealth-creating even if they are public sector. If you do not allow that, then how can you say that a marketing job creates wealth? It doesn't, it just helps others to create wealth.

Either helping others to create wealth is a wealth-creating activity or it is not; and this exists in public and private sector.


I haven't even mentioned agents yet.

[The Lone Gunman]

It does make sense and does attempt to answer the question, itself no mean feat in this emotive subject. But It doesn't quite ring true.

Do you call a job wealth-creating if it does not itself create any wealth directly but it does help others create wealth? If you do, then you must allow that, say, tourist boards are wealth-creating even if they are public sector. If you do not allow that, then how can you say that a marketing job creates wealth? It doesn't, it just helps others to create wealth.

Either helping others to create wealth is a wealth-creating activity or it is not; and this exists in public and private sector.


I haven't even mentioned agents yet.

I understand what you are saying, but it was in the context of the original thread too.
Someone pointed to a load of jobs that can only be done onshore as they require a physical presence, mostly service or public sector.
What I was trying to point out is that those jobs require customers to service and do not in themselves generate any new money.

I am trying to clarify that rather than get into a discussion of what is a wealth creating job.
Sales and marketing and even tourist boards effectively sell product, even if it is one step removed from direct sales.