IT support teams organisation

[gables]

Hello All,

Got a question about IT organisation, as in support teams, and I was wondering what types of organisation you chaps were seeing out there?

Basically we're going through a re-org, I've only been permie here 18 months, and I haven't been directly involved in permie reorgs since my days at DEC as since then I've been contracting\running a shop; so I'm not sure what the 'normal' type of organisation is these days....

It's looking like we're going to end up with the following teams:

1) Application Support - providing err apps support (not desktop)
2) Platform Services - split into teams of: server and storage (cross o/s), operations, Domain management and messaging
3) Networks and Security
4) Development and Change - this team also has an integration and web services element.

I think helpdesk\1st line support, 2ndline\desktop support will be provided outside of the above teams, as will desktop hardware\peripheral support.

Currently we're orgainsed into six teams: 1)Networks, 2) Security, 3) Unix apps + dba, 4) Windows apps + dba, 5) windows infrastructure+desktop support+desktop hardware support, 6) integration

Now teams 3,4 and 5 basically carry out similar work within their technology i.e server and storage management, apps support, dba work.

Now, I like the proposed new structure, however, talking to one of the managers (team 5) his view is that moving from what we have to what's proposed is a backward step, so I was wondering about how other organisations organise their teams and how that differs to what is being proposed here.

It's probably one of those questions that requires more detail, but I'm interested in hearing about other views...

Cheers,

[deckster]

Sorry, are you implying that there is any kind of structured thought that goes into org structures? IME they're dreamt up by senior managers when they don't have enough work to do. Which is pretty much all the time, hence the oft-repeated phrase 'Whoops, let me get my re-org boots' (thankyou, Scott Adams).


To paraphrase, if this org structure doesn't suit you then don't worry - there'll be another one along in a few months.

[MPwannadecentincome]

as the previous poster said -it is not about what is better, just more about what the head of the organisation is comfortable with or whatever succeeds in empire building.

it will change again when a new guy at the top comes along.

[gables]

Sorry, are you implying that there is any kind of structured thought that goes into org structures? IME they're dreamt up by senior managers when they don't have enough work to do. Which is pretty much all the time, hence the oft-repeated phrase 'Whoops, let me get my re-org boots' (thankyou, Scott Adams).


To paraphrase, if this org structure doesn't suit you then don't worry - there'll be another one along in a few months.

Oh bugger I like this new one.

as the previous poster said -it is not about what is better, just more about what the head of the organisation is comfortable with or whatever succeeds in empire building.

it will change again when a new guy at the top comes along.

So are we saying it's all a bit arbitary, and in fact any old organisation would do? So the guy moaning is probably moaning because it's limiting his empire\shaking things up, rather than him genuinely feeling this is backward step..?

I'm still curious as to how other IT support organise themselves..

[Gonzo]

So are we saying it's all a bit arbitary, and in fact any old organisation would do? So the guy moaning is probably moaning because it's limiting his empire\shaking things up, rather than him genuinely feeling this is backward step..?

Yes.

[RichardCranium]

Hello All

Got a question about IT organisation, as in support teams, and I was wondering what types of organisation you chaps were seeing out there?

Indian call centres.

I was wondering about how other organisations organise their teams and how that differs to what is being proposed here.

Look up ITIL for service management and service delivery.

Look up SFIA for the rest of the IT department.

Look up CMMI for what is achievable.

ITIL and SFIA are best practice and they provide a framework for what to do and who should do it. Personally I think SFIA is the dog's bollocks for a IT Department Head. CMMI informs you of what is realistic change based on where you are starting from.

For £1,000 / day + VAT I shall come and talk to your management if they ask me. If you refer me, I'll do it for £600. It'll take me a year to implement it and they'll need to spend £20k - £100k on training and £20k - £50k on software. At the end of 12 months they will be a tulip hot IT department.

KPMG, Deloittes et al will set up a PMO or PPSO and charge (2 + 1.5 + 3*1 = 6.5K / day for 4 days per week for 40 weeks) about £1,000,000 to do the same thing.

HTH

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

Richard, my dear fellow, you're not really making money out of this sort of drivel, are you?

Anywhere I go, the most successful projects are where they have the best developers and the least interference from management.

See, I just saved your client at least a 100K.

As for management, all you need to know is the following:

"If someone is not excellent, he/she is useless, fire their asses on the spot. If you don't know who's excellent by what he's saying, you don't get to be manager."

It's all common sense, really.

[RichardCranium]

Richard, my dear fellow, you're not really making money out of this sort of drivel, are you?

Of course not. I'm just bigging myself up.

I go from client site to client site and see the big consultancies failing to implement change. When I talk to them, they have no idea what ITIL is, have never actually used PRINCE2 and have never heard of SFIA.

It pisses me off that there is loads of really good stuff out there that is fairly easy to implement that can produce an efficient IT department and/or efficient teams within one.

But everyone sniffs at it and carries on being tulip because they know best.

Anywhere I go, the most successful projects are where they have the best developers and the least interference from management.

CMMI.

As for management, all you need to know is the following:

That's SFIA operating over ITIL and PRINCE2.

As for common sense, WTF is that? I've never worked for a senior manager with any.

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

I had to read about ITIL, it was a book that had empty pages on it, but it was full of text. Magic!

If I had a dev firm, I'd never allow ppl with these convictions around it. I've seen process-based development "work" (about 7 years ago first time), it lacked everything I chose sw development for; barely usable software being the end result for 3 times the cost they could have achieved with carefully picked devs.

It's about having well-paid, well-motivated stars on your team, nothing more.

It's hardly ever about the managers, it's usually about your seniors.

In fact, the best I've seen out of managers was when they surfed the web all day and came back with ridiculously huge margins for the project.

[RichardCranium]

I had to read about ITIL, it was a book that had empty pages on it, but it was full of text. Magic!

If I had a dev firm, I'd never allow ppl with these convictions around it.

Absolutely. ITIL is not meant for development. It is a support and service management framework. And, used badly, a killer: death-by-analysis.

It's about having well-paid, well-motivated stars on your team, nothing more. It's hardly ever about the managers, it's usually about your seniors.

tulip management --> poor supervisors (seniors) --> crap department.

I agree that good staff, left alone, do good work. There is no need breaking a functioning unit by applying change for the sake of it.

Sadly, most of my gigs are in public sector departments with poor management rescuing broken big projects. I have bad managers, demotivated supervisors and bone-idle nincompoops for developers and rude, offensive tulips for support staff. It grieves me that these departments could be made a lot better with a little bit of process and good staff management.