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ID Cards, why can't we be like the Belgians?

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    ID Cards, why can't we be like the Belgians?

    After reading yet another "Ex-MI5 chief sparks ID card row" type article on the BBC, I keep coming back to a couple of questions: 'whats the big deal?' and why can't the UK simply introduce the type that Belgium is bringing in, €20 per go and much more useful than all this unproven biometric stuff.



    Perhaps I'm just not enough of a politician to see the big picture...

    #2
    I still don't understand what's this big fuss over ID cards in UK. They have them everywhere and they have proven to be of some utility (although, of course they will not eliminate crime and fraud). Think about theft identity. It's ridicolous how easy that is in UK. Such frauds are way more difficult in other countries for the existance of ID cards. What saved England so far was a deeper respect of the institutions which lacked in other countries. With the current times, however, I would say that this respect for the institutions in UK has gone way down the sink. Or do we have to use the same slogan "our system is better because that's how we did it"?
    I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Francko
      I still don't understand what's this big fuss over ID cards in UK. They have them everywhere and they have proven to be of some utility (although, of course they will not eliminate crime and fraud). Think about theft identity. It's ridicolous how easy that is in UK. Such frauds are way more difficult in other countries for the existance of ID cards. What saved England so far was a deeper respect of the institutions which lacked in other countries. With the current times, however, I would say that this respect for the institutions in UK has gone way down the sink. Or do we have to use the same slogan "our system is better because that's how we did it"?
      I would agree with most of that, except that the ID card proposed in the UK is a lot more complex than anything in place elsewhere in Europe and there are a number of concerns as to why we need them, what they will be used for and what happens if it goes wrong. Remember, it is easy to change a PIN if someone hacks it, but you are stuck with your fingerprints, retina scans and DNA.
      I am not qualified to give the above advice!

      The original point and click interface by
      Smith and Wesson.

      Step back, have a think and adjust my own own attitude from time to time

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
        I would agree with most of that, except that the ID card proposed in the UK is a lot more complex than anything in place elsewhere in Europe and there are a number of concerns as to why we need them, what they will be used for and what happens if it goes wrong. Remember, it is easy to change a PIN if someone hacks it, but you are stuck with your fingerprints, retina scans and DNA.
        Well, it's more like in IT projects. If you have to improve an existing platform than you wouldn't go for the full new technology set, let's say a bank that uses mainframe and want to migrate to J2EE. If the infrastructure is there, then you would leave some components and migrate others and bridge where you can. But if you have to create everything ex-novo, I would go for the newest specs and be at the top edge rather than creating something that will be obsolete soon (plus, not to mention, that if the project is successful there might be an induced income for licensing it to other countries). I would see it more as an investment rather than a cost.
        I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.

        Comment


          #5
          "I would agree with most of that, except that the ID card proposed in the UK is a lot more complex than anything in place elsewhere in Europe"

          The Belgians apparently looked at including all the bio stuff but ruled it out because they considered it not reliable enough yet, especially with the costs involved.

          They've gone for simply a PKI system with a chip-card where the biometrics can be added later if required, something which seems a more sensible way to go.

          Also the way its being promoted is more general purpose, filing tax returns, signing documents/emails etc, with loads of companies rushing in to link it up to software packages. The SDK including card-reader is only circa €100...

          Comment


            #6
            Franko: The cards being proposed will not only identify us but will be used to store data. The systems will record when and where a card has been produced.

            With the proposed UK cards the Govt. will be able to track our moves point to point day to day.
            It is possible that some companies could abuse the system, imagine your medical records are accessed via this card. Do you think insurance companies would miss the opportunity to request a card check to find out if you are a good risk for them?
            As I said earlier. If a con man hacks the database and puts his own finger prints, dna or iris scan on instead of mine, I would have no way of recovering my ID.


            The only up side of these cards (if properly done) is that people with dual IDs will become visible very quickly so people making multiple claims on benefits or hiding from the law wont have it so easy.
            I am not qualified to give the above advice!

            The original point and click interface by
            Smith and Wesson.

            Step back, have a think and adjust my own own attitude from time to time

            Comment


              #7
              Question

              The only up side of these cards (if properly done) is that people with dual IDs will become visible very quickly

              How?
              Why not?

              Comment


                #8
                Think about how a card is obtained in the first place - you have to prove your identity. Therefore all the card will prove is that the person holding it is who he says he is, it will not prove who he really is.

                Since the point is to protect aginst people who are not who they say they are, it's bascially a whole load of pointless borax.
                Blog? What blog...?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dundeegeorge
                  The only up side of these cards (if properly done) is that people with dual IDs will become visible very quickly

                  How?
                  Because the stored patterns for finger prints, DNA and retina scans should be unique. If you get a duplicate in the database then there is something wrong.
                  I am not qualified to give the above advice!

                  The original point and click interface by
                  Smith and Wesson.

                  Step back, have a think and adjust my own own attitude from time to time

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Francko
                    They have them everywhere and they have proven to be of some utility (although, of course they will not eliminate crime and fraud).
                    I think that's the point Francko. £xbn and rising, and it won't do what NewLie are trying to suggest it will do. All it will do is give EDS another chance to prove their utter uselessness in another public sector IT farce. And fortunately for them, the UK taxpayer gets to pay for it.
                    His heart is in the right place - shame we can't say the same about his brain...

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