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TheFaQQer
3rd November 2009, 19:42
:tantrum:

Client approaches me for work direct. Skills that I have, and I can pick up some good ones by doing the gig. Location far from ideal, but not too bad.

Cut my rate by another 10% from last year so that I'm in with a shout.

Now they are worried that because the rate is so low, I might not stick out the 6 months if something better comes along. BUT, they haven't got the money to pay me any more.

:tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum:

I actually WANT this one!! Can't think of much that I can tell them that might mean that I get the work, though.

Clients are stupid sometimes.

Spacecadet
3rd November 2009, 19:45
You need to look at it from a commercial point of view

Get the contract worded so that you can give no notice and you're contractually tied in.

Rework the payment method so that a lump sum is payable upon completion of the project.

Zippy
3rd November 2009, 19:49
Spacecadet is right. Sell it as a work package and maybe build in a couple of stage payments.

Edit: make sure they get some kind of useable deliverable per stage as it might calm their nerves. You might also like to point out that their 'leave if something better comes up' argument could apply to anyone

TheFaQQer
3rd November 2009, 19:54
Good point (about the no notice) - I will discuss it tomorrow with them and see what they say.

No doubt the idea of me not being able to give notice will cause some worry or other....

vetran
3rd November 2009, 22:47
Make their nerves work to your advantage.

Get some work life balance goodies, get milestones not hours. Earn in your dressing gown!

Tell them if its comfy you aren't going to leave.

Board Game Geek
3rd November 2009, 23:35
Good point (about the no notice) - I will discuss it tomorrow with them and see what they say.

No doubt the idea of me not being able to give notice will cause some worry or other....

Well, it does sound exceedingly dodgy.

"Hi, and to reassure you that there is no hidden or ulterior motive on my part, I'm going to remove from my contract the ability for me to serve notice until the project is complete".

I'd be looking for the angle in that, trust me.

Everyone in business has a hidden agenda.

Spacecadet
3rd November 2009, 23:53
Well, it does sound exceedingly dodgy.

"Hi, and to reassure you that there is no hidden or ulterior motive on my part, I'm going to remove from my contract the ability for me to serve notice until the project is complete".

I'd be looking for the angle in that, trust me.

Everyone in business has a hidden agenda.

The ulterior motive is that he's trying to get the gig!

The contract is there to make both parties feel comfortable with what is expected from the other. It desn't necessarily have to be something which either side is willing to go to court over but it is at the very least a declaration of intent.
Sometimes the intent is backed up with money, hence my other suggestion of remodelling the payment structure so that some was held back, only to be released upon the competion of the contract. This makes better sense then the client trying to recoup percieved monetary loss from the contractor in the event of a serious breach i.e. early and unwarranted termination of the contract by the contractor.

Board Game Geek
4th November 2009, 09:11
The ulterior motive is that he's trying to get the gig!



That's the obvious motive.

Besides, you'd be making a rod to break your own back because putting in such a harsh clause would mean that you might specifically name exceptional exclusions to that clause.

Eg..except in the case of sudden death in the immediate family, and then the client will start to wonder if there is some sort of devious manufacture to the whole thing.

Diestl
4th November 2009, 09:14
Tell the client to pay you the whole amount of the contract up front, that way you will feel compelled to finish the contract, because you are a decent person.

Xenophon
4th November 2009, 09:23
Tell the client to pay you the whole amount of the contract up front, that way you will feel compelled to finish the contract, because you are a decent person.

WHS

AtW
4th November 2009, 09:25
Cut my rate by another 10% from last year so that I'm in with a shout.

Now they are worried that because the rate is so low, I might not stick out the 6 months if something better comes along.

:rollin:

So you think 10% reduction in rate suddenly makes it from presumably HUGE to "so low"? I'd like to know the details on how you came to this conclusion, did they tell you this to your face?

If they are worried about you leaving early then address this in the contract, offer to sign it for 12 months.

Simples

HTH

:tired

TheFaQQer
4th November 2009, 09:33
Tell the client to pay you the whole amount of the contract up front, that way you will feel compelled to finish the contract, because you are a decent person.

That's plan B.

TheFaQQer
4th November 2009, 09:35
So you think 10% reduction in rate suddenly makes it from presumably HUGE to "so low"? I'd like to know the details on how you came to this conclusion, did they tell you this to your face?

They said that "taking into account your previous rates, the rate that we are able to offer may not be enough to sustain you for the full contract period".

TheFaQQer
4th November 2009, 09:37
Well, it does sound exceedingly dodgy.

"Hi, and to reassure you that there is no hidden or ulterior motive on my part, I'm going to remove from my contract the ability for me to serve notice until the project is complete".

I'd be looking for the angle in that, trust me.

Everyone in business has a hidden agenda.

The last contract I did with IBM was written that way - they could give notice, but I could not. Maybe they are dodgy, though, or just worried that some people would scarper as soon as they got a better offer - not entirely unreasonable.

Notice periods are for permies anyway - I don't want one.

TinTrump
4th November 2009, 09:44
If they are worried about you leaving early then address this in the contract, offer to sign it for 12 months.

Simples

:confused: Surely the contract timescale - of 6 months, never mind 12 - is irrelevant to the client's concern that TheFaQQer may give notice and leave?

Spacecadet's idea of deliverables seems on the right track. Someone on another post suggested x amount upfront and the main tranche at the end in a similar situation. Good idea, but in this case depends upon how much of the work is reliant upon other peoples' contribution I would think.

NotAllThere
4th November 2009, 09:52
Eg..except in the case of sudden death in the immediate family, and then the client will start to wonder if there is some sort of devious manufacture to the whole thing.

Like BT won't finish a contract if a director's missus snuffs it.

:ohwell

FiveTimes
4th November 2009, 10:00
They said that "taking into account your previous rates, the rate that we are able to offer may not be enough to sustain you for the full contract period".

Do you want to be doing 5 days for the full period ? How about 3 day weeks ?

Spacecadet
4th November 2009, 10:02
Well, it does sound exceedingly dodgy.

"Hi, and to reassure you that there is no hidden or ulterior motive on my part, I'm going to remove from my contract the ability for me to serve notice until the project is complete".

I'd be looking for the angle in that, trust me.

Everyone in business has a hidden agenda.

Part of doing business is trust. A contract isn't worth the paper its written on if either party can't have some basic trust in the other.
Businesses are in Business to make money, FaQQers problem is that they think he might scarper off to make more money elsewhere. He just needs to give some gentle reassurances that this isn't the case. He's worked with them before, they seem happy with his work, he just needs to bring something to the table to close the deal.

As for hidden agenda's, you are way to sceptical or have been very badly burnt in the past.

TheFaQQer
4th November 2009, 10:14
Do you want to be doing 5 days for the full period ? How about 3 day weeks ?

Ideally, I'd like a 1 day week, earning 5 times my daily rate.

They need someone in to help deal with the extra work that they are experiencing at the moment, so chances of doing a short week are slim. It's another suggestion I'll put to them this morning, though.

Ta.

TheFaQQer
4th November 2009, 10:41
Offered a "no notice contract" and reassurances.

Interview this afternoon.

DiscoStu
4th November 2009, 10:42
Offered a "no notice contract" and reassurances.

Interview this afternoon.

Good luck :happy