Some Contracting questions

**MPwannadecentincome** · 2 December 2009, 14:43

Originally posted by kermitt View Post

Firstly - travelling - as I mentioned I travel some 2 hrs on a Monday to get to my place of work however I include this as part of my 8 hr working day i.e 2 hrs travel 6 hrs at office = 1 x day rate of £X. I then rent a flat near my client's office for the duration of the week before generally returning home on a Friday again including the same 2 hrs travelling in my day rate. My justification for this is that my time spent travelling to one clients place of work prevents me from doing work for another client, however by just charging my day rate I am not charging for travelling. Am I fair and correct in my assumption?

What does is say in your contract, do you have to do a minimum number of hours per week? Does the contract allow travelling time to be included in the day?

**northernladuk** · 2 December 2009, 14:49

The way I see it is that because I am outside of IR35 I need to be able to be free to come and go as I please i.e autonomy as my contract states otherwise IR will look at me as an employee. Furthermore I do have a verbal agreement with the person in England that I can choose to work from home etc as long as he is in the loop which seems fair enough to me. Am I fair and correct in these assumptions to or should I be a bit more concerned.

Contract this and IR35 that is all well and good but you can't go around pissing the client off as you see fit. You can try and be outside IR35 as much as you want but if they have a working time there you have to be mindful of it to keep your contract. You have to balance the two. If you just tell him you can do what you want because it is in the contract they are going get severely pissed and look for a reason to get rid.

Just adhereing to site policies to keep them happy isn't going to put you out of IR35. Your just fitting in to keep everyone happy. As long as your contract doesn't mention it and the cusomter doesn't implicitly tell you you have to do 9 to 5 then just be a good little boy and keep him sweet.

**kermitt** · 2 December 2009, 14:57

Contract states;

'the consultancy shall have autonomy in relation to determining the method of performance of the Consultancy Services provided that in doing so it shall co-operate with the Client and comply with all reasonable and lawful instruction sof the client. The Consultancy may provide the Consultancy Services at such times and on such days as the Consultancy shall decide but shall ensure that the Consultancy provides the Consultancy Services on such days and at such times as are necessary for the proper performance of the Consultancy Services'

It then goes on about not being held as an employee etc, but nothing about travelling and nothing about hours or working week.

Basically the way I see this is that as long as the work gets done and delivered on time I can work when and for how long I want on a daily basis, am I right?

My contract is due to expire soon and I may look for a renewal, should these be things I should ask to have included in my contract?

**TheFaQQer** · 2 December 2009, 15:15

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

Contract this and IR35 that is all well and good but you can't go around pissing the client off as you see fit. You can try and be outside IR35 as much as you want but if they have a working time there you have to be mindful of it to keep your contract. You have to balance the two. If you just tell him you can do what you want because it is in the contract they are going get severely pissed and look for a reason to get rid.

Agreed - you don't have to be there at that time, you are choosing to do so. There is a big difference between the two - and the reason you do it is so that the rest of the team are happy.

Originally posted by kermitt View Post

Basically the way I see this is that as long as the work gets done and delivered on time I can work when and for how long I want on a daily basis, am I right?

Yes, but don't piss the client off too much.

Originally posted by kermitt View Post

My contract is due to expire soon and I may look for a renewal, should these be things I should ask to have included in my contract?

If you want them to be in there, then include them. I have never specified my working hours or even the number of hours expected per week - I work a professional working day, but typically it's over 40 hours a week. No client has complained yet - and if I'm away from home, I usually leave at lunch on a Friday to get home in time for tea and children's bedtime.

**northernladuk** · 2 December 2009, 15:16

Again my take on this would be keep the customer/client happy. It would appear to me you are just trying to get yourself a cushy number and be able to swan in and out as you see fit and that the customer/client is already not very happy about this.

Is it really so important to you that you want to put your renewal in jeoaprdy?

I could read both sides of the argument in to your contract. Yes you have autonomoy as to how it is delivered but it does also say you will comply in all reasonable and lawful requests.

Coming in between certain hours so as not to cause consternation in the office doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Telling him where you are every day and him having a say on that so he can reasonable govern your time would also seem reasonable as he is paying for it.

Again, playing devils advocate as the client, the fact you seem to have a reputation for swanning in and out as you wish and then are attempting to force the client to write that in to your contract is going to make you the focus for some thought. I personally would be going through your work with a fine toothed comb to make sure you are not wagging it so you better be ready to account for every second of time you are being paid for.

Is it really so important to you that you flaunt around like this and risk pissing him off? Contracts aside he is a human being in an office with a lot of other human beings. they can get pissed off and turn against you whatever your contract actually says.

Where did you get this contract from that says you are not an employee anyway? Did you create it? Sounds a bit odd.

**alreadypacked** · 2 December 2009, 15:46

Originally posted by kermitt View Post

I have nearly completed my first 12 month contract. I live in Scotland.

It's a bit of a treak but anywhere for a party, let's have an Irish coffee to warm up.

**kermitt** · 2 December 2009, 15:51

Woah people am not pissing anybody off and am not swanning around like some of you point out, nor do I have any reputation for the like. The only reason I ask is that the base manager at my place of work pointed out that my clock in times are irregular, thats all. But I dont work for him I report to someone else who is miles away.

As far as I am aware the system is for fire safety so they have a record of who is in the building, the permies however do have an actual timesheet that they must fulfill. However the base manager mentioned that this log is looked at against the hours that the contractors are billing the client. It is only myself and one other in the whole office that report to the client in England because we are part of his group, everyone else at my place of work reports to the base manager here. We generally work on separate things anyway so there is no team really.

Generally I turn up later on a Monday morning due to the travelling time I incur, I would rather get a restful nights sleep and be proactive at my work than be half asleep and do sod all. Plus I generally do make up some of the time by staying on later and/or take very little lunch break.

The rest of the week I am mostly there on time in the morning if I am late then I again work later, mostly but not always. Typically I do the return journey home on a Friday afternoon instead of taking lunch and then continue working or ensure I am available answering emails, phone calls etc.

Thing is though I am not always busy and my routine changes weekly. Sometimes I am over loaded and work much later than normal, other times there is very little to do and I see no point hanging around just to fill in the clock.

Some Mondays I get up and sort emails out etc and then travel at lunch time, however the clocking in system does not recognise the fact that I may have already spent four hours working that morning off site. I only ever really need to be in the office if I need to use their equipment/software but if I am reviewing documents or writing specifications I can do this anywhere really.

Essentially I am getting my work done and have had no complaints from my client. Contract is from the agency who got me the position.

**northernladuk** · 2 December 2009, 16:36

Ah ok thats a bit clearer. Still for someone to actually take you to task about your time must mean its more than just a slight issue what with the UK culture to avoid direct confrontation. No smoke without fire so would watch it.

Thing is though I am not always busy and my routine changes weekly. Sometimes I am over loaded and work much later than normal, other times there is very little to do and I see no point hanging around just to fill in the clock.

your getting paid by the clock so as little point as there is hanging around it is your master. Most of us wouldn't be sitting in the office now if this was true. Unfortuantely in most cases the right thing to do is to fill the clock and be seen to be leaving at reasonable times etc.

Every situation is different, the work you do, client attitude etc etc. I have never seen a place that makes you 'clock in' to a building so find this odd.

Little things niggle me as i read through though. You put...

Generally I turn up later on a Monday morning due to the travelling time I incur, I would rather get a restful nights sleep and be proactive at my work than be half asleep and do sod all. Plus I generally do make up some of the time by staying on later and/or take very little lunch break.

If you are paid to travel 2 hours then whatever you do you start at 8. Set of travelling at 8 get there at 10 do 2 more hours work. If you work at home you start at 8 do 2 hours work and travel for 2. How does this affect the time you get up and how tired you feel? You would only feel that if you stayed in bed till 10 and then travelled as apposed to being ready at 8. You get me?

At the end of the day if the client is happy and agent is happy so where is the problem? Sounds like you already have a cushy number with the travel being paid for and a bit of leniency with time. Unless you are desperate why rock the boat?

**singhr** · 2 December 2009, 16:44

Originally posted by alreadypacked View Post

It's a bit of a treak but anywhere for a party, let's have an Irish coffee to warm up.

I don't have any Baileys, will Irish Mist do?

Some Contracting questions