Own company when a permie

**VectraMan** · 15 January 2010, 12:53

I can't see how an umbrella would be an option for something like that, as they're going to expect to sign a contract, not receive payments for sales.

Just set up a Ltd., and pay dividends from it as and when you feel like, and declare it all on your self assessment return. It's not too hard to manage the end of year stuff by yourself for a simple company, but if you can't, find an an accountant to do it.

Only problem with this sort of thing is that your employer might not be too happy about it, and at worse, could claim some kind of ownership as you were working for them. Best not to tell them.

**deckster** · 15 January 2010, 12:58

Originally posted by VectraMan View Post

Only problem with this sort of thing is that your employer might not be too happy about it, and at worse, could claim some kind of ownership as you were working for them. Best to have an open and frank discussion with your employer's legal department to come to an arrangement that everybody is happy with, rather than risk instant dismissal when you get found out.

I couldn't agree more.

**VectraMan** · 15 January 2010, 13:49

Originally posted by deckster View Post

I want to give VectraMan a million pounds.

It's a risk either way, but I would say that if you ask your employer beforehand, the most likely outcome is that they'll say no, and then where does that leave you?

The best approach to working full time for one company, whilst carrying on an additional business on the side, is to be a contractor.

**Sally BFCA** · 15 January 2010, 15:49

If you developed the software in your spare time then this cannot be an issue with your permie employers to my mind.

Maybe consider applying for a patent to protect it?

It would also have to be treated as a capital asset in your accounts, and hopefully, amortised with appreciation. You may need to take the advice of your accountant on this.

Well done BTW, it's good to hear!

...is Dragon's Den calling?

**theemeestroo** · 15 January 2010, 15:54

I know what you mean. I am pretty sure there is something in my contract about working for other companies.....I always assumed that that was more about work for direct competitors.
I can't see how they could stake a claim to ownership though?
After all, any work is done in my (not so) free time and if anything they benefit from my skillset growing due to out of work research!!

I think keeping schtum will be my initial avenue

**VectraMan** · 15 January 2010, 19:23

Originally posted by theemeestroo View Post

I know what you mean. I am pretty sure there is something in my contract about working for other companies.....I always assumed that that was more about work for direct competitors.
I can't see how they could stake a claim to ownership though?
After all, any work is done in my (not so) free time and if anything they benefit from my skillset growing due to out of work research!!

I think keeping schtum will be my initial avenue

A full time job doesn't necessarily mean just whilst you're in the office; it means full time. If you're a manager, and you have a great idea about how to improve things at your employer, you can't sell it to them for extra cash just because you had it at lunchtime. It's assumed that having ideas is part of your job, and any ideas you have belong to your employer.

But IANAL, and this advice is worth what you paid for it. The most likely outcome is you risk losing your job if caught, but if you're making millions by then you won't care.

**SueEllen** · 15 January 2010, 19:54

Originally posted by theemeestroo View Post

I know what you mean. I am pretty sure there is something in my contract about working for other companies.....I always assumed that that was more about work for direct competitors.
I can't see how they could stake a claim to ownership though?

Yes they can. Companies like IBM have such things in their contracts according to the people I know who are current and ex-IBMers. So anything you create in your free time belongs to them. That way they can get more Patents.

I was warned that courts don't reinterpret that law as the company can argue that the clause is there for your own H&E to avoid you working too many hours under the Working Time Regulations.

Originally posted by theemeestroo View Post

After all, any work is done in my (not so) free time and if anything they benefit from my skillset growing due to out of work research!!

I think keeping schtum will be my initial avenue

Just check your contract clauses.

If you make a million or more on it then if the company can afford it they will check out when you came up with the idea, and try and sue you for a settlement.

So just make sure you clearly state you invented the software before you started working for them.

**RichardCranium** · 15 January 2010, 20:53

Originally posted by Sally BFCA View Post

If you developed the software in your spare time then this cannot be an issue with your permie employers to my mind.

When I worked for a UK based broadcasting corporation, their standard contract VERY clearly says they own all rights to all creative work you produce whilst working for them, regardless of how, when, why or where. That is the norm for contracts within the media industries.

The creative types have to negotiate exemptions for their private works.

Had I developed a hairdresser's booking system while there, they would have owned it lock, stock and barrelwave.

**NickFitz** · 15 January 2010, 21:18

Originally posted by RichardCranium View Post

Had I developed a hairdresser's booking system while there, they would have owned it lock, stock and barrelwave.

Yes, but they do have hairdressers (at least on the TV side), so at least they'd use it

Own company when a permie