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AtW
18th January 2010, 00:54
Abuse of pre-pack deals ‘could turn Britain into an insolvency brothel’

Britain is in danger of becoming the “bankruptcy brothel of the world”, it was claimed yesterday, as furious creditors prepared a landmark legal challenge over the country’s largest pre-pack administration.

Bertrand des Pallières, who saw the entire investment of SPQR Capital, his hedge fund, wiped out in the pre-pack of Wind Hellas, the Greek telecoms group, in August, criticised the English courts for allowing foreign companies to move to the UK and exploit the controversial restructuring tool.

Mr des Pallières and other investors, who lost a combined €1.5 billion (£1.3 billion) in the pre-pack, are preparing a lawsuit that will accuse Wind Hellas of “bankruptcy tourism” and question its right to use British bankruptcy law.

More: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article6991762.ece

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AtW's comment: I'd leave inline comments in the article but too many people and sockies on here hate them :frown

RichardCranium
18th January 2010, 06:59
AtW's comment: I'd leave inline comments in the article but too many people and sockies on here hate them :frownI wish you had. I haven't the foggiest what that is about.

Pre-pack Greek hedges for brothels? :confused:

Board Game Geek
18th January 2010, 07:32
I wish you had. I haven't the foggiest what that is about.

Me neither.

All I skim read was blah blah blah bankruptcy blah blah blah investment blah blah blah hedge fund blah blah blah foreign companies blah blah blah law.

As I then drifted to sleep, I surmised that it was something to do with foreign companies going bankrupt due to British Law.

I then turned off and worried about whether to start a new character in Dragon Age Origins or not. Those sort of things affect my real life you see. Not some foreign company losing millions.

Olly
18th January 2010, 07:59
I know a chap that organises exactly this.

An address, mail forwarding, mobile phone contract, everything so that it appears the individual is "normally resident" in the UK.

I think it's three years you are stuffed in Germany, whereas only one in UK (numbers could be wrong, but its a big difference whatever)

He seems to be making a pretty penny though I wouldn't be comfortable sailing so close to the wind and mixing with some dodgy "bizniz" men. Still, he likes the mafia lifestyle, although someone should tell him they do look bloody odd wearing sharp suits, shaved heads, to a quick few pints on a sunday.

Moscow Mule
18th January 2010, 08:28
I wish you had. I haven't the foggiest what that is about.

Pre-pack Greek hedges for brothels? :confused:

You can do "pre-pack" insolvency/administration deals in the UK when winding up a failing company. When you do this you don't have to involve all of the creditors - you can do a deal with a couple and leave the others hanging - all legally.

This chap is complaining about foreign companies transferring their incorporation to the UK then arranging a "pre-pack" a couple of weeks later. Something which is currently untested in the English courts so people are getting away with it.

HTH ?

Tarquin Farquhar
18th January 2010, 08:31
I wish you had. I haven't the foggiest what that is about.

Pre-pack Greek hedges for brothels? :confused:Herkos Odonton.

EternalOptimist
18th January 2010, 08:33
You can do "pre-pack" insolvency/administration deals in the UK when winding up a failing company. When you do this you don't have to involve all of the creditors - you can do a deal with a couple and leave the others hanging - all legally.

This chap is complaining about foreign companies transferring their incorporation to the UK then arranging a "pre-pack" a couple of weeks later. Something which is currently untested in the English courts so people are getting away with it.

HTH ?

So we have

tourists
health tourists
welfare tourists
Libel tourists
Pre-Pack Tourists



wow. What we need are more Russian emigres to help tell us where we are going wrong


:rolleyes:

Sysman
18th January 2010, 10:06
It's no longer "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells", but Bankrupt of Tunbridge Wells (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6845136.ece).

HairyArsedBloke
18th January 2010, 10:13
So we have

tourists
health tourists
welfare tourists
Libel tourists
Pre-Pack Tourists


Make ya proud, we are doing so well leading the world. :music:

shaunbhoy
18th January 2010, 10:18
Make ya proud, we are doing so well leading the world. :music:

Yes, if there is one thing we can still lead the world in then it is how to go bust........with style!
:laugh

Mich the Tester
18th January 2010, 10:19
Erm, is this really such a bad thing? In Britain personal bankruptcy is over in one year, which means that businesspeople who’ve had a go but failed can quickly get on their feet again. In other European countries, it takes 3 years of living at income support level having lost one’s home and everything else. Here in Holland, people who go bankrupt are unlikely ever to work again. If they get a job they keep the same amount of money as if they get a hand out from the council.

It seems to be that this issue is caused by good legislation in Britain and crap legislation in other European countries, and the solution is for those countries to sort out their rules. In the mean time, Britain should just try to make a few bob out of this.

milanbenes
18th January 2010, 10:21
'Bertrand des Pallières, who saw the entire investment of SPQR Capital, his hedge fund, wiped out in the pre-pack of Wind Hellas'


as a fund hedge fund manager, how could this chap put 100% of the fund's money into one investment ?

Oh Dear.

Milan.

rootsnall
18th January 2010, 10:34
'Bertrand des Pallières, who saw the entire investment of SPQR Capital, his hedge fund, wiped out in the pre-pack of Wind Hellas'

as a fund hedge fund manager, how could this chap put 100% of the fund's money into one investment ?
.

I don't think it says that, just that the hedge fund lost 100% of this particular investment.

The pre-pack element is a scam and needs reigning in. It is a Nuliebor thing to supports 'jobs' and 'business' but forgets about all the creditors that get well and truly shafted. The Directors of the bust business shouldn't be able to rebuy it, simple !

Mich the Tester
18th January 2010, 10:40
It is a Nuliebor thing to supports 'jobs' and 'business' but forgets about all the creditors that get well and truly shafted. The Directors of the bust business shouldn't be able to rebuy it, simple !

The creditors get shafted by 1: the tax authorities, who have priority over other creditors and 2: insolvency practitioners who smear out the proceedings as much as possible for the hefty fees they can gain from it and 3: bankers, who have often allowed many good businesses to go under due to a short term lack of liquidity and the banks' refusal to lend.

Now I'd love to blame Labour for this, but as I see it they're somewhere down the list.

stingman123
18th January 2010, 10:41
I don't understand any of this I only read it because it had the words Greek and Brothel in the same thread....

rootsnall
18th January 2010, 10:55
The creditors get shafted by 1: the tax authorities, who have priority over other creditors and 2: insolvency practitioners who smear out the proceedings as much as possible for the hefty fees they can gain from it and 3: bankers, who have often allowed many good businesses to go under due to a short term lack of liquidity and the banks' refusal to lend.

Now I'd love to blame Labour for this, but as I see it they're somewhere down the list.

I'm not well up on it so probably talking tulip but I'm sure it was a change in the law that Nuliebor pushed as 'good for jobs and business' that has allowed the pre pack insolvencies to become a lot easier. I've witnessed a couple of low level insolvencies and yes they were carefully drawn out by the insolvency practitioners to use up all the money in the pot down to the last penny. But the more worrying ( and corrupt !? ) cases are the ones were the insolvency practitioners are advising the company pre insolvency and then deem the previous directors as the most suitable bunch to take over the bust business. The recent Clintons one was a good one, the receiver had higher bids but sold back the bust part of Clintons back to them to 'protect jobs'.

Doggy Styles
18th January 2010, 12:41
I'm sure it was a change in the law that Nuliebor pushed as 'good for jobs and business' that has allowed the pre pack insolvencies to become a lot easier. A Labour government should never be allowed to interfere in financial legislation. Of any kind. Because as sure as eggs is eggs, up they will f**k it.

Sysman
18th January 2010, 12:52
I'm not well up on it so probably talking tulip but I'm sure it was a change in the law that Nuliebor pushed as 'good for jobs and business' that has allowed the pre pack insolvencies to become a lot easier.

I was impressed by a documentary I saw about a year ago which explained how much easier it is in the US to bounce back from bankruptcy. Several famous names like Henry Ford and Harold Lloyd got a mention there.

(If I remember correctly it is a rescheduling of debt rather than a complete write off, which makes everyone happier to give you another chance.)

ASB
18th January 2010, 15:48
The creditors get shafted by 1: the tax authorities, who have priority over other creditors and 2: insolvency practitioners who smear out the proceedings as much as possible for the hefty fees they can gain from it and 3: bankers, who have often allowed many good businesses to go under due to a short term lack of liquidity and the banks' refusal to lend.

Now I'd love to blame Labour for this, but as I see it they're somewhere down the list.

1 isn't the case here. HMRC are no longer preferential creditors. This is one of the reasons (the main one) why they are now so quick to issue proceedings.

Mich the Tester
18th January 2010, 15:54
1 isn't the case here. HMRC are no longer preferential creditors. This is one of the reasons (the main one) why they are now so quick to issue proceedings.SO actually they are included in the people who shaft creditors, but for a different reason. They probably issue proceedings against viable businesses.

ASB
18th January 2010, 17:36
They probably issue proceedings against viable businesses.

Not quite. They issue proceeding against non viable businesses denying them the chance to become viable again. Also this is likely to result in a net loss to the treasury - at least in those cases where the business might become viable again. HMRC act pretty swiftly now...