Non technical people in the IT world

[DieScum]

I know there are a lot of PMs on here and perhaps some managers involved in IT.

I know that project management is really important.

Yet some times dealing with non techy people in IT just makes me wonder. Most of them seem to be doing things that require few proper skills. Or rather they require skills but just the kind of common personality sense stuff that you either have or you don't - ability to talk to people, organise stuff, talk in meetings, send emails.

Like there was this one bloke I dealt with a short while ago and he was reviewing some of the work and preparing a document on alternative options. Thing is it was completely obvious technically that there were no real alternatives and we'd have to continue on the same path. Weird. He spent ages doing that and with just a bit of knowledge he would have known it was pointless. I had to keep having phone calls where he'd waste my time and I'd politely try to explain things to him.

Or the ten people that come to meetings to discuss something I'm involved with and eight of them are non-technical and bring to the table such skills as 'making jokes with the project stakeholders', 'sending out the outlook calendar invite', 'wearing a suit', 'showing a series of arbitrary statistics on a powerpoint slide with no understanding of how valid or invalid they are'.

Thing is these jobs seem to pay well and are well regarded.

Did we make a wrong turn? All the technical skill that takes years to develop and have to be constantly renewed is it worth it? I can wear a suit, arrange meetings, make jokes, be chummy.

[NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25]

Hence why so many 'project managers' are sitting on the bench, while the developers are actually getting jobs.

I dont have much respect for a lot of PM's. Most Ive ever met are chancers who think if they can 'pull the gang together' then thats all they need to do.

[OrangeHopper]

Doesn't this depend on the company's culture?

One place I worked at there were more non-techinical people at a review of a technical document than technical people. At another the documents were reviewed by ones peers. Guess which worked better.

In my opinion good managers are willing to take responsibility and not always delegate it. At the second company quoted above I was flabbergasted when the project manager actually volunteered to do something because it would be wasting a techie's time otherwise.

[Julius Caesar]

Thing is these jobs seem to pay well and are well regarded.

Did we make a wrong turn? All the technical skill that takes years to develop and have to be constantly renewed is it worth it? I can wear a suit, arrange meetings, make jokes, be chummy.

Possibly. Accepting terms like "geek" gets us classified as the oily rag rather than the engineer. There are always a lot of parasites with no worthwhile work to do, who are happy to get themselves classified as the engineer.

IT used to pay well in recognition of the fact that it was difficult and necessary, but by now the suits have realised that those who do can be kept inferior to those who talk.

At least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you have done a difficult and necessary job well. Still, lost of those that you describe probably think that too.

[threaded]

I had a non-techie manager who needed explaining in quite excruciating detail why a 'war' file, that in reality was a renamed zip file of a video of Princess Superstar and several bollywood mp3s, was never ever going to install on the application server, no matter how much he shouted.

Yet he signed my timesheet for years.

So all in all that's a plus for non-techie managers.

[OrangeHopper]

Someone on here wrote a piece about how much harder it is to be a hands-on manager - expected to manage a team, be the lead designer and do some of the work - than being one of the team. Having had to do this, and will be at it again next week, I can but only agree wholeheartedly with that assessment.

[RichardCranium]

I know that project management is really important.

It can be.

there was bloke I dealt with reviewing some of the work and preparing a document on alternative options. Thing is it was completely obvious technically

Senior management hate 'obvious technical solutions' with a passion. They are frightened of them and conclude the techies are following their own agenda. I have spent far more time writing business cases to the do bleeding obvious than anything else. This involves removing all the techie stuff and putting it in terms of risk, cost/benefit analysis and potential career development opportunities for senior managers.

It is very important to every senior manager's ego that they can take a 'no-brainer' and come out with something 'clever' to say why you shouldn't do it.

Or the ten people that come to meetings to discuss something I'm involved with...

Your organisation has a 'meetings' culture. I bet there is no agenda and there's no action minutes.

Thing is these jobs seem to pay well and are well regarded.

Frightening, isn't it? What pisses us PMs off are the hangers-on with neither technical nor business skills getting paid stupid money to say "Yes, sir" to anything their Director says. When one of those worthless gits gets an idea in their head they are very dangerous.

Did we make a wrong turn? All the technical skill that takes years to develop and have to be constantly renewed is it worth it?

Yes. Someone's got to do some work.

I can wear a suit, arrange meetings, make jokes, be chummy.

That's easy. But can you do it day in, day out, to stupid, self-serving, ignorant, back-stabbing bastards? Can you manipulate them into doing what needs to be done and make them think it is both their own idea and in their best interests? And do that at the same time as the developers, testers, support and ops staff all look at you with contempt?

That's project management.

[DodgyAgent]

I know there are a lot of PMs on here and perhaps some managers involved in IT.

it? I can wear a suit, arrange meetings, make jokes, be chummy.

But no matter how hard you try you still wont find a girlfriend

[Ruprect]

I know there are a lot of PMs on here and perhaps some managers involved in IT.

I know that project management is really important.

Yet some times dealing with non techy people in IT just makes me wonder. Most of them seem to be doing things that require few proper skills. Or rather they require skills but just the kind of common personality sense stuff that you either have or you don't - ability to talk to people, organise stuff, talk in meetings, send emails.

Like there was this one bloke I dealt with a short while ago and he was reviewing some of the work and preparing a document on alternative options. Thing is it was completely obvious technically that there were no real alternatives and we'd have to continue on the same path. Weird. He spent ages doing that and with just a bit of knowledge he would have known it was pointless. I had to keep having phone calls where he'd waste my time and I'd politely try to explain things to him.

Or the ten people that come to meetings to discuss something I'm involved with and eight of them are non-technical and bring to the table such skills as 'making jokes with the project stakeholders', 'sending out the outlook calendar invite', 'wearing a suit', 'showing a series of arbitrary statistics on a powerpoint slide with no understanding of how valid or invalid they are'.

Thing is these jobs seem to pay well and are well regarded.

Did we make a wrong turn? All the technical skill that takes years to develop and have to be constantly renewed is it worth it? I can wear a suit, arrange meetings, make jokes, be chummy.

Wilmslow, is that you?? hmm?

[Moscow Mule]

In my experience, it's the PMs who know how to ask pertinent questions you have to be wary of...