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minestrone
8th March 2010, 19:00
Did they wonder why they got knocked back?

linky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8554849.stm)


three people who plunged to their deaths from a multi-storey flat in Glasgow were a Russian family seeking asylum in the UK, the BBC understands.

The father, mother and son had been granted asylum in Canada but left after a dispute with the authorities there.

Their application to remain in the UK had recently been refused but they had not been issued with a removal order.

AtW
8th March 2010, 19:56
Did they wonder why they got knocked back?

What I am personally wondering about is what it would take for you to have some compassion to family that decided to end their lifes with their son so tragically?

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
8th March 2010, 20:49
What I am personally wondering about is what it would take for you to have some compassion to family that decided to end their lifes with their son so tragically?

Ouch that told him! To be fair, minestrone is only having a laugh about something that we can do nothing about now.

AtW
8th March 2010, 20:54
Ouch that told him! To be fair, minestrone is only having a laugh about something that we can do nothing about now.

There is one thing that can be done about it now: not having a laugh about it.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
8th March 2010, 21:21
There is one thing that can be done about it now: not having a laugh about it.

well they were given asylum in Canada but blew that, so Ive got to admit Im a bit 'Daily Mail' about this particular subject.

chef
8th March 2010, 22:26
oo oooo it seems we may have another one about to flounce off in a huff and to ensure that there is no hard feelings of any kind whatsoever I'd simply like to say that I think Tsar Alexander III didn't have a clue what he was on about and frankly Russian Vodka has been put to shame by Absolut of Sweden..

Chef

Moscow Mule
8th March 2010, 22:29
oo oooo it seems we may have another one about to flounce off in a huff and to ensure that there is no hard feelings of any kind whatsoever I'd simply like to say that I think Tsar Alexander III didn't have a clue what he was on about and frankly Russian Vodka has been put to shame by Absolut of Sweden..

Chef

Have you tried Russian Standard? It's actually quite palatable.

Nowhere as good as that french one though.

shaunbhoy
9th March 2010, 09:27
What I am personally wondering about is what it would take for you to have some compassion to family that decided to end their lifes with their son so tragically?

Not sure why you have made the assumption that minestrone had no feelings for their predicament. I thought his point was a reasonable one. If you get kicked out of somewhere like Canada, why assume you will be subsequently welcomed here? From Canada to Springburn. Things don't get much more depressing.
Tragic outcome all the same.

minestrone
9th March 2010, 10:37
Why does it take 3 years to determine that someone from Canada should not be granted asylum?

They should have been told that at the time of entry and told to return there and then not put up in a crap flat in a crap area for 3 years which no doubt contributed to their breakdown.

AtW
9th March 2010, 10:48
I thought his point was a reasonable one.

It's not given the situation - whole family decided to fking kill themselves, why do you care why they were refused asylum in canada? For all we know the reason could have been that they travelled through Europe (possibly UK) and did not claim asylum here - given tragic circumstances it is totally irrelevant.

minestrone
9th March 2010, 10:55
It's not given the situation - whole family decided to fking kill themselves, why do you care why they were refused asylum in canada? For all we know the reason could have been that they travelled through Europe (possibly UK) and did not claim asylum here - given tragic circumstances it is totally irrelevant.

They were granted asylum in Canada then they decided to leave and try for it here, if they were deported they were going to be sent back to Canada.

Now Canada may have it's faults but killing yourself and your family rather than get sent there is clearly a sign of mental illness. They should have been sent back the minute they approached for asylum here.

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:21
Now Canada may have it's faults but killing yourself and your family rather than get sent there is clearly a sign of mental illness.

And all mentally sick people should be killed in your view then?

FFS, even if parents were mentally sick or wrong this in no way makes it less tragic as they took their son with them!

minestrone
9th March 2010, 11:29
And all mentally sick people should be killed in your view then?

FFS, even if parents were mentally sick or wrong this in no way makes it less tragic as they took their son with them!

Where did I say that sick people should be put down?

I did however say that they should have been booted out straight away for the stupidity of claiming asylum from a country that has the same monarch as us.

I am also going to say that they got into serious trouble in Canada and that is why they are here now.

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:32
I am also going to say that they got into serious trouble in Canada and that is why they are here now.

They are not here now - they are dead.

stek
9th March 2010, 11:36
I'm struggling to think of a valid asylum claim from a Russian citizen.

The reason it took three years to decide this is the huge amount of asylum claims the UK receive, which mystifies me, as the Rules of Asylum say you must claim it in the first safe country you land in. which seems to be the UK for some reason!

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:39
I'm struggling to think of a valid asylum claim from a Russian citizen.

Why?

minestrone
9th March 2010, 11:43
Why?

Now you are here I would have though they would have all wanted to go back.

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:46
Now you are here I would have though they would have all wanted to go back.

Go back to Russia?

Maybe you should have been born and lived there until you die (which would not take too long).

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 11:47
Why?

The facts of the matter are they were granted Asylum in Canada, then apparently they played up over there, got into trouble and came over here.

Asylum is for people who are in desperate straits, whose lives are in imminent danger.

Not for people to be swanning around the world picking which country they'd like to live in.

I never get how these people can always seem to afford the thousands it cost to get themselves over here if they are in such a desperate situation.

Personally I have no sympathy. They had their chance for salvation in Canada, but blew it. Seems to me like permanent trouble makers. I think weve just saved the government a bit of money in repatriation costs.

fullyautomatix
9th March 2010, 11:48
And all mentally sick people should be killed in your view then?

FFS, even if parents were mentally sick or wrong this in no way makes it less tragic as they took their son with them!

Would it have altered your opinion if the asylum seekers were not from Russia but from, say, Somalia ?

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:48
Asylum is for people who are in desperate straits, whose lives are in imminent danger.

Not for people to be swanning around the world picking which country they'd like to live in.

Yes I agree.

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:50
Would it have altered your opinion if the asylum seekers were not from Russia but from, say, Somalia ?

I would not have altered my view on this one, no - nationality is irrelevant when family makes such decision to kill themselves by jumping down from tower block and take their son with them.

Note here - I am not saying UK is guilty of not giving them asylum, what I am saying is that in such tragic circumstances trying to act like a **** ministrone is very unBritish in my view, frankly it is inhuman.

AtW
9th March 2010, 11:52
I think weve just saved the government a bit of money in repatriation costs.

This attitude may case a bit of money but cost a lot in humanity.

If Govt wanted to save a LOT of money it would make lots of healthy young men on the dole actually WORK for their money.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 11:53
Most Asylum seekers are just economic migrants who see the grass is greener ....... Fact.

fullyautomatix
9th March 2010, 11:54
This attitude may case a bit of money but cost a lot in humanity.

If Govt wanted to save a LOT of money it would make lots of healthy young men on the dole actually WORK for their money.



Do not try to deviate the topic here. The topic on the table is why asylum seekers chose to come to UK when they were granted asylum in Canada. The fact that they have killed themselves is irrelevant to this discussion.

fullyautomatix
9th March 2010, 11:55
Most Asylum seekers are just economic migrants who see the grass is greener ....... NOT Fact.

FTFY

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 11:56
FTFY

It is fact. Look at the numbers who dont get granted asylum .........

But I spose you can back YOUR argument up cant you?

minestrone
9th March 2010, 11:57
Note here - I am not saying UK is guilty of not giving them asylum, what I am saying is that in such tragic circumstances trying to act like a **** ministrone is very unBritish in my view, frankly it is inhuman.

As you said they are dead and that precludes me from being inhuman in the circumstances.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:00
As you said they are dead and that precludes me from being inhuman in the circumstances.

:( there goes the thread ........

I like a bit of :ladybags:

Bright Spark
9th March 2010, 12:09
what if they smoked some strong spliff and thought they could fly!! :smokin

AtW
9th March 2010, 12:22
The fact that they have killed themselves is irrelevant to this discussion.

We clearly have different views on it - for me having family killed themselves with their son after traveling half the world is more important than actual reason why they had to leave Canada.

shaunbhoy
9th March 2010, 12:25
We clearly have different views on it - for me having family killed themselves with their son after traveling half the world is more important than actual reason why they had to leave Canada.

Perhaps you ought to reserve judgment until you establish just WHY they were hoofed out of Canada.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:26
We clearly have different views on it - for me having family killed themselves with their son after traveling half the world is more important than actual reason why they had to leave Canada.

But they ran away from their homeland because they were 'persecuted'. Were then given a chance in Canada which they blew, they then ran off to the UK. I mean how much are we meant to bend over for these people. Sometimes there are losers in life, and nature has a way of dealing with them. Sad but true. Darwin even came up with a theory for it.

AtW
9th March 2010, 12:29
Perhaps you ought to reserve judgment until you establish just WHY they were hoofed out of Canada.

It's a tragedy when family kills themselves by jumping off an effing huge tower block WITH THEIR SON.

What possible can change my judgment on that it is a tragedy? Even if they were Goebbels's family that would still be tragedy when children die.

AtW
9th March 2010, 12:30
Darwin even came up with a theory for it.

Animals don't suicide themselves with their children. Your analogy is complete in appropriate, especially given that humans are meant to be better than animals.

It's not 2 adults who killed themselves - they took their son with them, and THAT makes it aweful tragedy.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:30
It's a tragedy when family kills themselves by jumping off an effing huge tower block WITH THEIR SON.

What possible can change my judgment on that it is a tragedy? Even if they were Goebbels's family that would still be tragedy when children die.

You dont much about the case then.

No child died.

Look it up.

shaunbhoy
9th March 2010, 12:31
Perhaps you ought to reserve judgment until you establish just WHY they were hoofed out of Canada.



"We've been told that the father, mother and adult son were seeking asylum from Canada which they had left after making bizarre claims about plots against them.

"The plots were said to involve senior politicians and the use of psychotronic weapons to alter their minds. :eek
"After leaving Canada - where they had actually been granted asylum - they travelled through Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Bremen, Barcelona and Dublin before arriving in the UK in November 2007.



Sounds like they were a ticking time bomb in terms of irrationality. Great shame it ended that way, but cannot see what case they could have made for being realistically granted asylum here. Not like we are short of basket cases of our own.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:34
Sounds like they were a ticking time bomb in terms of irrationality. Great shame it ended that way, but cannot see what case they could have made for being realistically granted asylum here. Not like we are short of basket cases of our own.

A few less nutters in the world cant be a bad thing.

AtW
9th March 2010, 12:35
You dont much about the case then.

No child died.

Look it up.


From BBC link posted:

"Russian family 'jumped to deaths' from Glasgow flats

Three people who plunged to their deaths from a multi-storey flat in Glasgow were a Russian family seeking asylum in the UK, the BBC understands.

The father, mother and son had been granted asylum in Canada but left after a dispute with the authorities there.

Their application to remain in the UK had recently been refused but they had not been issued with a removal order.

The apparent triple suicide happened on Sunday at the Red Road flats complex in the Springburn area of the city. "

Am I wrong to assume son was among those 3, if not who was the 3rd person, random ?

Son appears to be adult, but still it's pretty ****ed up when parents do it, small or grown up - having parents kill whole family like this is terrible in my book.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:36
From BBC link posted:

"Russian family 'jumped to deaths' from Glasgow flats

Three people who plunged to their deaths from a multi-storey flat in Glasgow were a Russian family seeking asylum in the UK, the BBC understands.

The father, mother and son had been granted asylum in Canada but left after a dispute with the authorities there.

Their application to remain in the UK had recently been refused but they had not been issued with a removal order.

The apparent triple suicide happened on Sunday at the Red Road flats complex in the Springburn area of the city. "

Am I wrong to assume son was among those 3, if not who was the 3rd person, random ?

Jesus Christ ........... ok quick lesson for you.

An 80 year old man is the SON of someone.

Geez ..........

Rather than make a fool of yourself, why not do everyone a favour and give the age of this 'son' and then once youre done tell me how that age fits in with societys notion of a 'child'.

I shall look forward to your answer.

AtW
9th March 2010, 12:40
Jesus Christ ........... ok quick lesson for you.

An 80 year old man is the SON of someone.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7054793.ece

"Serge Serykh, 43, his wife, and his stepson, from the former Soviet Union, plunged to their deaths on Sunday morning"

43 years old, I'd say he probably married in 20s, so his son is not likely to be much over 20.

It's ok for him to die then in your view with his parents jumping off the building.

It's not fine by me.

AtW
9th March 2010, 12:42
Jesus Christ ........... ok quick lesson for you.

An 80 year old man is the SON of someone.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/03/09/bizarre-spy-claims-of-russian-family-who-jumped-to-their-death-from-red-road-flat-after-being-told-they-faced-eviction-86908-22096753/

"The desperate mother, father and 21-year-old son tied themselves together before their 15-storey plunge on Sunday morning."

It's ******* crazy tragedy, just because their son isn't under 16 does not make it less so.

sunnysan
9th March 2010, 12:42
"We've been told that the father, mother and adult son were seeking asylum from Canada which they had left after making bizarre claims about plots against them.
The plots were said to involve senior politicians and the use of psychotronic weapons to alter their minds."


Although heresay, this could point to mental health issues?

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:44
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7054793.ece

"Serge Serykh, 43, his wife, and his stepson, from the former Soviet Union, plunged to their deaths on Sunday morning"

43 years old, I'd say he probably married in 20s, so his son is not likely to be much over 20.

It's ok for him to die then in your view with his parents jumping off the building.

It's not fine by me.

Stop changing the rules. You thought he was a child, now youre saying that we should all be distraught because he was in his 20's ...... well sorry but by the time you are in your 20's you are clearly responsible for your own actions.

The difference between a man OVER the age of 20 throwing himself off a building and a 5 year old is quite distinct wouldnt you agree?

I wouldnt mind arguing the toss if you just admitted you completely got it wrong because you made assumptions.

sunnysan
9th March 2010, 12:52
Its a tragedy, but for once I dont really think the UK Border Agency is to blame.

IMHO the debate about the morality of the asylum system is separate and this guy killed himself and his family because he was a nutcase.

In fairness, what was the UKBA supposed to do? Grant them asylum(Benefits, housing etc) because the guy thought the Canadians where out to get him?

My only question to the UKBA is why these guys where even allowed to stay here so long? Clearly their asylum claim was bullsh1t.

So in essence, the Canadians grant the guy asylum, he comes over here and tops himself and takes his family with him, and the UKBA gets the blame? Come on.

NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25
9th March 2010, 12:55
Like I said, a few less nutters taking up valuable oxygen cant be a bad thing.

minestrone
9th March 2010, 12:55
It's a tragedy when family kills themselves by jumping off an effing huge tower block WITH THEIR SON.


One death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic

Who said that?

AtW
9th March 2010, 13:01
Stop changing the rules. You thought he was a child, now youre saying that we should all be distraught because he was in his 20's

For parents he is still a child even if he is 80. In my view that fact that he is 21 does not change the situation one bit.

I guess I am just not a selfish **** who'd need his own family to jump out of window to appreciate that tragedy of this terrible situation.

Paddy
9th March 2010, 13:02
Asylum is not just given for political reasons, it can be give if the person is in fear of his or her life, or rape by criminals.

Most Russian asylum seekers are not from Russia but from Latvia and Estonia. When these countries became independent they did not give passports to Russian speakers hence there are thousands (if not millions) of stateless Russians without passports and they are forbidden to work in their own country. (There are seven million Russian speakers in the EU) In theory these countries should not have been admitted to the EU but a blind eye was turned to their practice. The ridiculous situation is that the UK is accepting refugees from these two EU countries but the UK does not protest in the European parliament about the illegal way these two countries treats Russian speakers.

AtW
9th March 2010, 13:06
The ridiculous situation is that the UK is accepting refugees from these two EU countries but the UK does not protest in the European parliament about the illegal way these two countries treats Russian speakers.

Do you know how many refugees come from those countries compared to others? I'd be surprised if they are in top 10.

Most of people you describe got now EU passports and travel freely - they don't need asylum bollox and they certainly would prefer EU passport to Russian passport even though many hold both.

TheFaQQer
9th March 2010, 13:16
Most Asylum seekers are just economic migrants who see the grass is greener ....... Fact.

Link? or just more made up bollocks?

TheFaQQer
9th March 2010, 13:17
We clearly have different views on it - for me having family killed themselves with their son after traveling half the world is more important than actual reason why they had to leave Canada.

I agree.


Perhaps you ought to reserve judgment until you establish just WHY they were hoofed out of Canada.

Nope - the fact that they felt that jumping 15 storeys was the only way out is a tragedy, whatever their background.

TheFaQQer
9th March 2010, 13:19
The ridiculous situation is that the UK is accepting refugees from these two EU countries but the UK does not protest in the European parliament about the illegal way these two countries treats Russian speakers.

The UK accepts 0 refugees from EU states each year. As a citizen of the EU, there is no concept of requiring asylum within another EU state.

shaunbhoy
9th March 2010, 13:24
the fact that they felt that jumping 15 storeys was the only way out is a tragedy, whatever their background.

Quite correct. However, the original point AtW made was that minestrone showed no compassion. IMHO he merely prompted a question relating to why Asylum had been declined here. He did not disclose his feelings either way, but AtW immediately went on the offensive...........as he does, despite not having all the facts............as he does.

HTH

AtW
9th March 2010, 13:33
He did not disclose his feelings either way

He disclosed his complete lack of feelings by choosing to focus on many reasons why they may have had to leave Canada.

There are plenty of asylum seekers making up total BS lies about all sort of things, however I don't see many of them back it up by jumping off a tower block with whole family.

It's NOT about being refused asylum - this country does not owe a living, however it is very sad when such tragedies happens and it makes me angry that there are way too many ****s like ministrone who fail to appreciate it.

minestrone
9th March 2010, 13:37
Yes, I intended in making the point that this will be used as a reason to incorrectly give people asylum as they will now all be threatening to jump out of windows.

The usual suspects are already out saying how this is the goverment's fault when really it boils down to the suicidal tendancies of a serial abuser of the asylum system. It is best to keep emotions out of these decisions

Paddy
9th March 2010, 17:21
Do you know how many refugees come from those countries compared to others? I'd be surprised if they are in top 10.

Most of people you describe got now EU passports and travel freely - they don't need asylum bollox and they certainly would prefer EU passport to Russian passport even though many hold both.


No they don't. They have a special Aliens Passports"

Aliens passport (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Resident+aliens+in+Baltic+States+give+Russia+footh old+in+EU/1076152514737)

Two new EU member states, Estonia and Latvia, have a total of about half a million former Soviet citizens who have not wanted, or known how to choose a nationality after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
Along with Estonia, the EU will get, in addition to nearly a million Estonians, 86,000 permanent residents with Russian passports, and 168,000 holders of aliens’ passports. In Latvia the number of non-citizens is even greater - about 322,000 Russians.
According to Russia, Estonia and Latvia violate the rights of minorities. This year it has complained about the issue to the Unite d Nations Commission on Human rights in Geneva, the Organisation on Security and Cooperation in Europe, the European Parliament, and the Council of Europe.

Paddy
9th March 2010, 17:22
The UK accepts 0 refugees from EU states each year. As a citizen of the EU, there is no concept of requiring asylum within another EU state.

Bollox

AtW
9th March 2010, 17:24
They don't want to learn language, culture, integrate in society - funnily enough they don't want to go back live in Russia even though it's just across the border.

I believe majority of them did the right thing - did learn the language, passed exams and got EU passport. There are still those who would not or can not - tough luck - you can't expect to be a citizen and refuse to speak local language especially considering history of occupation of Baltic states - Russians who moved there 50 years ago were effectively colonists designed to mix up local population in order to get firmer grip on the colony.

shaunbhoy
9th March 2010, 17:26
They don't want to learn language, culture, integrate in society - you can't expect to be a citizen and refuse to speak local language

Unless, of course, you come over here. We will then chip in and ensure you have a suitable translator in order that you don't miss out on any benefits that you are entitled to.
:tantrum:

Paddy
9th March 2010, 17:30
They don't want to learn language, culture, integrate in society - funnily enough they don't want to go back live in Russia even though it's just across the border.

I believe majority of them did the right thing - did learn the language, passed exams and got EU passport. There are still those who would not or can not - tough luck - you can't expect to be a citizen and refuse to speak local language especially considering history of occupation of Baltic states - Russians who moved there 50 years ago were effectively colonists designed to mix up local population in order to get firmer grip on the colony.


That is like saying if Scotland became independent it would be OK to ban the English language and only Scottish speakers could have citizenship.

AtW
9th March 2010, 17:30
Bollox

I think you are bollox mate.

Stats (Q1 2008):

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/asylumq108.pdf

Page 19: only like 70 people in Q1 2008 from whole of europe which includes former USSR. 5 from Russia. FIVE - take these 3 dead now and it would be high death rate among Russian asylum seekers.

AtW
9th March 2010, 17:31
That is like saying if Scotland became independent it would be OK to ban the English language and only Scottish speaker could have citizenship.

Scottish language (Gaelic) is non existant (IMHO).

A much better example is Wales - if it became independent then I reckon the main language would be Welsh, and those who refuse to learn it and pass exam won't get Welsh passport: maybe not as they are too tightly joined up with England, same border big time and LIFESTYLE NOT much different - Russia and Baltic states are totally different countries.

More importantly - Baltic states were occupied just 60 years ago - there are still people alive there who know what it is to hear NKVD knock on the doors in the middle of the night, nothing of that kind on that scale happened in Wales.

Paddy
9th March 2010, 17:34
I think you are bollox mate.

Stats (Q1 2008):

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/asylumq108.pdf

Page 19: only like 70 people in Q1 2008 from whole of europe which includes former USSR. 5 from Russia. FIVE - take these 3 dead now and it would be high death rate among Russian asylum seekers.

See EU Accession States

shaunbhoy
9th March 2010, 17:40
A much better example is Wales - if it became independent then I reckon the main language would be Welsh, and those who refuse to learn it and pass exam won't get Welsh passport

Cripes!! I bet they'd be crushed!!
:laugh

AtW
9th March 2010, 17:44
See EU Accession States

EU Accession States(2), page 19: total number of people who applied for Asylum... 0 (nil).

Next page shows previous years - in 2005 total number of people who applied for asylum from all EU Accession States was 130 in whole of the year ... they must be really oppressed there, hundreds of thousands according to you are gagging to get out from Baltic states hell and get asylum in the UK!

Conclusion - your assertion was false, not the first time you speak about things you don't have a clue about, so for the future remember: if you want to say something about Russian related politics or economics - DON'T.

AtW
9th March 2010, 17:49
I mean FFS, Baltic states are members of Schengen zone - anyone inside there (including those "Aliens") can fairly easily get to Europe, not to the UK since there are actual border checks.

Russia recently tried to get those aliens to go back and live in Russia, funnily enough almost nobody took on this offer despite alleged "oppression" etc.

Paddy
9th March 2010, 18:51
EU Accession States(2), page 19: total number of people who applied for Asylum... 0 (nil).

Next page shows previous years - in 2005 total number of people who applied for asylum from all EU Accession States was 130 in whole of the year ... they must be really oppressed there, hundreds of thousands according to you are gagging to get out from Baltic states hell and get asylum in the UK!

Conclusion - your assertion was false, not the first time you speak about things you don't have a clue about, so for the future remember: if you want to say something about Russian related politics or economics - DON'T.

15 in 2007 23 in 2008

AtW
9th March 2010, 18:54
15 in 2007 23 in 2008

Quiet. Massive numbers ain't they?

Here is what you said earlier:


Asylum is not just given for political reasons, it can be give if the person is in fear of his or her life, or rape by criminals.

Most Russian asylum seekers are not from Russia but from Latvia and Estonia. When these countries became independent they did not give passports to Russian speakers hence there are thousands (if not millions) of stateless Russians without passports and they are forbidden to work in their own country. (There are seven million Russian speakers in the EU) In theory these countries should not have been admitted to the EU but a blind eye was turned to their practice. The ridiculous situation is that the UK is accepting refugees from these two EU countries but the UK does not protest in the European parliament about the illegal way these two countries treats Russian speakers.

It's not an ****ing problem at all - numbers claiming asylum prove it clearly, well - at least for the UK it's not a problem numbers wise - look at top 10 countries with most asylum apps - proper 3rd world.

Paddy
9th March 2010, 21:30
Quiet. Massive numbers ain't they?

Here is what you said earlier:



It's not an ****ing problem at all - numbers claiming asylum prove it clearly, well - at least for the UK it's not a problem numbers wise - look at top 10 countries with most asylum apps - proper 3rd world.

I have withdrawn my vote for you.

AtW
9th March 2010, 21:33
I have withdrawn my vote for you.

:eek:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo, PLEASE noooooooooooooooooooo!!!

ratewhore
10th March 2010, 09:18
<snip> what I am saying is that in such tragic circumstances trying to act like a **** ministrone is very unBritish in my view, frankly it is inhuman.

says the russki...


:laugh

lilelvis2000
10th March 2010, 10:21
Where did I say that sick people should be put down?

I did however say that they should have been booted out straight away for the stupidity of claiming asylum from a country that has the same monarch as us.

I am also going to say that they got into serious trouble in Canada and that is why they are here now.

BZZZT- wrong! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/europe/convinced-canada-was-dangerous-russian-family-commits-suicide/article1495780/

minestrone
10th March 2010, 10:26
BZZZT- wrong! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/europe/convinced-canada-was-dangerous-russian-family-commits-suicide/article1495780/

I would say that they were in serious trouble as they were getting radiation pumped into their house by the goverment to control their brain waves.

lilelvis2000
10th March 2010, 10:44
I would say that they were in serious trouble as they were getting radiation pumped into their house by the goverment to control their brain waves.

Stephen Harper may be a man of minimal personality - some people call him a jackass for perouging(sp?) parliament not once but three times in three years. But I can't imagine him damaging property by pumping radiation in to it. "Trouble" when you read the BBC page could mean criminal trouble - but it didn't did it? Once again BBC coverage of Canada focuses on the negative. I was amazed they got a camera crew there for the Olympics.

TheFaQQer
10th March 2010, 10:53
The facts of the matter are they were granted Asylum in Canada, then apparently they played up over there, got into trouble and came over here.

No - the facts of the matter, now that they are available, say no such thing. They did not play up. They did not get into trouble.


Personally I have no sympathy. They had their chance for salvation in Canada, but blew it. Seems to me like permanent trouble makers. I think weve just saved the government a bit of money in repatriation costs.

As ever, the voice of reason speaks :eyes

They didn't blow it - unless you class being ill "blowing it". They weren't permanent trouble makers, and the fact that the mentally ill cannot be taken care of in this country is a tragedy.

minestrone
10th March 2010, 10:55
Stephen Harper may be a man of minimal personality - some people call him a jackass for perouging(sp?) parliament not once but three times in three years. But I can't imagine him damaging property by pumping radiation in to it. "Trouble" when you read the BBC page could mean criminal trouble - but it didn't did it? Once again BBC coverage of Canada focuses on the negative. I was amazed they got a camera crew there for the Olympics.

I have now decided to believe everything that asylum seekers say, I mean why would they tell anyone lies?

And the system will run much better if we believe everything they say and assume they would not be a potential problem living in the UK. Let them all stay I say.

stek
10th March 2010, 11:01
Sounds like another Litvinyenko case, did they fall or were they pushed?

Both men KGB/FSB, both men spouting wild claims about Russian government.

lilelvis2000
10th March 2010, 11:10
I have now decided to believe everything that asylum seekers say, I mean why would they tell anyone lies?

And the system will run much better if we believe everything they say and assume they would not be a potential problem living in the UK. Let them all stay I say.

I wouldn't go that far. Of course I don't know if they were in treatment or not, surely they should have been if they were not.

ratewhore
10th March 2010, 11:12
They weren't permanent trouble makers, and the fact that the mentally ill cannot be taken care of in this country is a tragedy.

It's not the job of this country to take care of the mentally ill from other countries, who travel through loads of other countries to get to the UK.

(Assuming you're still on about the 3 who chucked themselves out of the tower block. I haven't bothered reading all the thread.)

minestrone
10th March 2010, 11:14
I wouldn't go that far. Of course I don't know if they were in treatment or not, surely they should have been if they were not.

So you are now saying he was mad and there was no threat to him from Canada and agree with me he should have been put back there as soon as he arrived claiming this mince, thanks.

AtW
10th March 2010, 11:17
It's not the job of this country to take care of the mentally ill from other countries

UK has got obligation to follow asylum laws that are pretty much universal. Historically UK was a safe harbour to those fleeing persecution - top applications actually come from countries that were meddled by UK to a substantial degree: Iraq, Afganistan.

I've now read up more on this case and it seems there is a reason why they decided to leave Canada - they would not get citizenship there because it is apparently Canadian common practice not to give it to ex-KGB officers. If I was in this position I'd certainly move to another country - UK is perfect from this point of view.

stek
10th March 2010, 11:24
I have now decided to believe everything that asylum seekers say, I mean why would they tell anyone lies?

And the system will run much better if we believe everything they say and assume they would not be a potential problem living in the UK. Let them all stay I say.

Really bad idea, sends out the signal to the Worlds disaffected to flock here cos we'll let everyone stay.

Spain tried an amnesty for illegals and regretted it, resulted in even more trying to get in...

minestrone
10th March 2010, 11:29
I've now read up more on this case and it seems there is a reason why they decided to leave Canada - they would not get citizenship there because it is apparently Canadian common practice not to give it to ex-KGB officers. If I was in this position I'd certainly move to another country - UK is perfect from this point of view.

So you are willing to believe what the press reports a suicidal paranoid told in is asylum application.

:suicide:

stek
10th March 2010, 11:30
UK has got obligation to follow asylum laws that are pretty much universal. Historically UK was a safe harbour to those fleeing persecution - top applications actually come from countries that were meddled by UK to a substantial degree: Iraq, Afganistan.

I've now read up more on this case and it seems there is a reason why they decided to leave Canada - they would not get citizenship there because it is apparently Canadian common practice not to give it to ex-KGB officers. If I was in this position I'd certainly move to another country - UK is perfect from this point of view.

Think Somalia is top of the list, my bro is a Social Worker and he to deal with them and their machetes.

Still doesn't explain how Somalis, Afghans and Iraqis can claim asylum in UK since they are obliged under the rules of political asylum to claim it in the first safe country the land in.

Now as these citizens need a visa to land here by air, which they won't get, they must come by truck, and pass through God knows how many safe countries. So to me it's logical the UK should have very few asylum claims.

lilelvis2000
10th March 2010, 11:32
So you are now saying he was mad and there was no threat to him from Canada and agree with me he should have been put back there as soon as he arrived claiming this mince, thanks.

It appears the health systems in both countries failed these people. Considering the Canadian one is so shite that's not hard to believe. I would have thought the NHS would have caught on sooner.

AtW
10th March 2010, 11:34
Still doesn't explain how Somalis, Afghans and Iraqis can claim asylum in UK since they are obliged under the rules of political asylum to claim it in the first safe country the land in.

Chances are that those guys actually worked for British forces there and would have no other chances to get the feck out of those countries.

Whether UK is the first country they landed or not is secondary consideration - you should also consider that asylum applications can be made in embassies, you don't need to travel.

ratewhore
10th March 2010, 12:06
Whether UK is the first country they landed or not is secondary consideration

Er, not it's not...

AtW
10th March 2010, 12:41
Er, not it's not...

It practical terms it is secondary if the country they came from is dangerous and/or they are actually fleeing real prosecution.