PDA

View Full Version : How would a Federal UK look?



cojak
20th April 2010, 11:14
Every country with it's own Parliament?

How does Switzerland work - their cantons hold more Government duties than counties do over here, I guess..

And Bern is an unlikely capital..

Mich the Tester
20th April 2010, 11:16
What, from space?

About the same.

cojak
20th April 2010, 11:20
Just pondering the possibility and the consequences Mitch.

I must admit to my erstwhile Scottish friends that I'm getting increasing ticked off with Alex Salmond and his cronies.

Why don't we just bite the bullet and be done with it all?

Mich the Tester
20th April 2010, 11:22
Just pondering the possibility and the consequences Mitch.

I must admit to my erstwhile Scottish friends that I'm getting increasing ticked off with Alex Salmond and his cronies.

Why don't we just bite the bullet and be done with it all?I'd go along with that, but unfortunately if I see the English Independence lot they seem to be a bit like the BNP with a less colourful flag.

expat
20th April 2010, 11:35
Much the same as a split-up ex-UK. I know of no succesful federal country with such a disparity in size as there is between Scotland and England.

Cojak, I sympathise, but anybody who though that handing a half-way parliament to a group of complete separatists would make them be quiet, had really not thought about it much.

cojak
20th April 2010, 11:51
So that's why I'm thinking about it now.

Federal works for other countries that realise how (more) small and inconsequential they would be otherwise.

But realise that sensible doesn't equate with separatist.

So why not bite the bullet and go full hog? We'd do the border controls the way France and Switzerland do it.

Let's face it - the oil's gone, no probs there...

Platypus
20th April 2010, 12:27
If the Tories were smart, they'd also campaign for full Scottish independence. They have no seats in Scotland, so they have everything to gain. Would probably keep Labour out of power for ever.

OwlHoot
20th April 2010, 12:27
So that's why I'm thinking about it now.

Federal works for other countries that realise how (more) small and inconsequential they would be otherwise.

But realise that sensible doesn't equate with separatist.

So why not bite the bullet and go full hog? We'd do the border controls the way France and Switzerland do it.

Let's face it - the oil's gone, no probs there...

The Scots would probably rather be a separate EU country than one of a UK federation.

So if the UK then ever left the EU, we'd be right back to the situation that caused all the problems for centuries, ever since King Malcolm in the early 1000s (before the Norman Conquest) decreed that his Scottish court would speak French and allied himself with France, to get one up on the English. :mad

cojak
20th April 2010, 12:42
So if the UK then ever left the EU, we'd be right back to the situation that caused all the problems for centuries, ever since King Malcolm in the early 1000s (before the Norman Conquest) decreed that his Scot's court would speak French and allied himself with France, to get one up on the English. :mad

Right, now I'm a bit ignorant here, but a problem for whom?

Sysman
20th April 2010, 12:50
I for one regret the government centralisation that has occurred in the last 30 years.

The Swiss system (http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/swiss-canton-system.html) has 26 cantons (cf 70 counties in the UK & NI).

I quite like this bit, in principle:


Maximizes Competition Among Policies. Because so many decisions are made at the local level, the Swiss are closely involved with the laws and regulations which affect their lives – and because each canton is different, they are also able to see for themselves which policies work best. For example, one canton might have high taxes and expensive welfare programs, while another might opt for low taxes and private charity. Each Swiss citizen can then decide which policy suits him best and "vote with his feet" by moving to the canton which he finds the most attractive.

though of course you do have that choice to a limited extent in the UK in choosing where to live (high versus low council tax areas).

This is the bit I do like:


Switzerland's national debt and inflation rate are low. Total government spending for all three levels has averaged only 22.6% of GNP since 1946, yet expenditure on welfare and education per capita is high. This is because government revenues are spent effectively rather than wasted on a bloated bureaucracy.

On the local level Switzerland definitely has advantages. Turn the town centre into a pedestrian zone? The locals get to vote on it.

Scary
20th April 2010, 13:45
Much the same as a split-up ex-UK. I know of no succesful federal country with such a disparity in size as there is between Scotland and England.


Does the US count as a successful federal country?

Alaska 1,481,346 square kilometers
Rhode Island 2,707 square kilometers

California 36,756,666 population
Wyoming 532,668 population

expat
20th April 2010, 13:53
Does the US count as a successful federal country?

Alaska 1,481,346 square kilometers
Rhode Island 2,707 square kilometers

California 36,756,666 population
Wyoming 532,668 populationMea culpa, I was wrong by being imprecise. I meant to say, I have not seen a successful federal system where one of its parts is such a large part of the whole, in population, as England would be if it were a single part of a federal UK.