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lukemg
8th July 2010, 09:23
Watched a documentary about Rolls Royce making jet engines last night, it was bloody brilliant. The level of engineering design and execution was staggering, attention to detail, pride and absolute excellence of staff was amazing. They set out to make the best engines on the planet and do so, I was nearly on my feet saluting by the end.
THIS is the level which we need to be competing at and satellite design and build is comparable, forget trying to mass produce stuff as cheaply as Bob, you have no chance. The order book stands at 40 billion currently. One place was growing a single component from an individual metal crystal (it’s the only way to make sure it can take the likely stress) – What happens if they fail testing and are returned ? I don’t know says the chap, it has NEVER happened.

Gibbon
8th July 2010, 09:26
Watched a documentary about Rolls Royce making jet engines last night, it was bloody brilliant. The level of engineering design and execution was staggering, attention to detail, pride and absolute excellence of staff was amazing. They set out to make the best engines on the planet and do so, I was nearly on my feet saluting by the end.
THIS is the level which we need to be competing at and satellite design and build is comparable, forget trying to mass produce stuff as cheaply as Bob, you have no chance. The order book stands at 40 billion currently. One place was growing a single component from an individual metal crystal (it’s the only way to make sure it can take the likely stress) – What happens if they fail testing and are returned ? I don’t know says the chap, it has NEVER happened.



Please feel free to salute :D

doodab
8th July 2010, 09:30
UK companies also operate at this level in the world of audio & video and there used to be some active in telecommunications.

Paddy
8th July 2010, 09:37
Watched a documentary about Rolls Royce making jet engines last night, it was bloody brilliant. The level of engineering design and execution was staggering, attention to detail, pride and absolute excellence of staff was amazing. They set out to make the best engines on the planet and do so, I was nearly on my feet saluting by the end.
THIS is the level which we need to be competing at and satellite design and build is comparable, forget trying to mass produce stuff as cheaply as Bob, you have no chance. The order book stands at 40 billion currently. One place was growing a single component from an individual metal crystal (it’s the only way to make sure it can take the likely stress) – What happens if they fail testing and are returned ? I don’t know says the chap, it has NEVER happened.

... and thanks to Ted Heath!

gingerjedi
8th July 2010, 09:41
I've worked at Rolls Royce, BAE, Airbus and Westland helicopters on both engineering and IT projects, they have always been the best gigs and the ones I strive to get as I love working in those high tech environments.

Loads of Bobs at Rolls Royce Filton mind so not quite as easy as it was, not sure how they're doing it though as SC is mandatory on site?

DaveB
8th July 2010, 09:41
Same series looked at buildng nuclear submarines in Barrow-on-Furness last week. Very much in the same vein.

cailin maith
8th July 2010, 09:51
Same series looked at buildng nuclear submarines in Barrow-on-Furness last week. Very much in the same vein.

That one was brilliant, I really enjoyed it.

Only saw a bit of the Rolls Royce one this week though... pretty sure it's on iPlayer.

SupremeSpod
8th July 2010, 09:54
I've worked at Rolls Royce, BAE, Airbus and Westland helicopters on both engineering and IT projects, they have always been the best gigs and the ones I strive to get as I love working in those high tech environments.

Loads of Bobs at Rolls Royce Filton mind so not quite as easy as it was, not sure how they're doing it though as SC is mandatory on site?

Possibly in the same way we do here, the last cleared person to leave kicks the Bobs and other uncleared people out.

DaveB
8th July 2010, 09:55
That one was brilliant, I really enjoyed it.

Only saw a bit of the Rolls Royce one this week though... pretty sure it's on iPlayer.

Should be on iPlayer for a week or so after broadcast.

The bit that impressed me with the RR one was the way they created honeycomb interiors in the fan blades. Stick three layers of titanium alloy together with secret sauce, heat it to god knows how hot for a week in a furnace and the middle layer expands like corrugated cardboard. Very, very clever!

lukemg
8th July 2010, 09:57
Agreed, but there was a large element of keeping the skills alive and building the subs for us (although I know we export huge quantities of other defence tech), this is a Brit company competing across the world and doing extremely well.
Yes, Ted Heath did have to bail them out, they bet the farm on building the next generation of engines and nearly went under because of the problems that had to be overcome, good luck to anyone trying to do this from a standing start, even with back-engineering.
Unlike millions poured into failing industries like cars for political reasons, this was to get over a short term issue and was a brilliant investment.

Joe90
8th July 2010, 10:04
Yeah it is on iPlayer. Thats where I watched it earlier in the week.

Does anybody know what else the series will cover?

Gibbon
8th July 2010, 10:10
I've worked at Rolls Royce, BAE, Airbus and Westland helicopters on both engineering and IT projects, they have always been the best gigs and the ones I strive to get as I love working in those high tech environments.

Loads of Bobs at Rolls Royce Filton mind so not quite as easy as it was, not sure how they're doing it though as SC is mandatory on site?

Probably doing Ardour engine training for the Hawks they bought from us.

Clippy
8th July 2010, 10:12
Yeah it is on iPlayer. Thats where I watched it earlier in the week.

Does anybody know what else the series will cover?

Looks like the final episode on Sunday is at defence contractor QinetiQ's (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3dc7):


Britain's Secret Engineers

If you need to build a 'top-secret' piece of equipment in the UK, there's one place many people choose to go: defence contractor QinetiQ.

We follow workers at this leading British company on a global journey, as they reveal a handful of their secretive projects. We meet the scientists and engineers building robots to diffuse Afghanistan's deadly roadside bombs and learn how they're adapting them to help in dangerous civilian situations in the UK. We find out how British experts are using 'stealth technology' to make wind turbines less visible to radar and, with unprecedented access, we follow the engineers racing to get Chinook helicopters ready for front line service, including Afghanistan.

gingerjedi
8th July 2010, 11:35
Looks like the final episode on Sunday is at defence contractor QinetiQ's (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3dc7):

Ha I've worked at QinetiQ too, there were some very clever people doing things with drones and lasers.

Even though I've worked on these sites I must profess that most of what I've seen went clean over my head. :o

Gibbon
8th July 2010, 11:45
Ha I've worked at QinetiQ too, there were some very clever people doing things with drones and lasers.

Even though I've worked on these sites I must profess that most of what I've seen went clean over my head. :o

I was headhunted by them and turned them down, seriously.

No overtime.

sasguru
8th July 2010, 11:57
Watched a documentary about Rolls Royce making jet engines last night, it was bloody brilliant. The level of engineering design and execution was staggering, attention to detail, pride and absolute excellence of staff was amazing. They set out to make the best engines on the planet and do so, I was nearly on my feet saluting by the end.
THIS is the level which we need to be competing at and satellite design and build is comparable, forget trying to mass produce stuff as cheaply as Bob, you have no chance. The order book stands at 40 billion currently. One place was growing a single component from an individual metal crystal (it’s the only way to make sure it can take the likely stress) – What happens if they fail testing and are returned ? I don’t know says the chap, it has NEVER happened.

The reason that you got so excited is that this sort of excellence is the exception to the rule of mediocrity.
The Germans probably have hundreds of factories (maybe not jet engines but other stuff) all at the top of their game.
This makes me glum.

Moscow Mule
8th July 2010, 13:37
I worked for Qinetic before it was Qinetic. You could not find a more random bunch of geeks, nerds, losers and oddballs.

That was in the OA section though so I guess it's too be expected - statistics is for nerds after all.

sasguru
8th July 2010, 13:45
...statistics is for nerds after all.

As the whole world works on probabilistic principles, that ignorant attitude is why most people make stupid decisions and/or have uninformed opinions.
I'm of the opinion that some level of statistical inferential theory should be compulsory in the education system.

Gibbon
8th July 2010, 13:55
As the whole world works on probabilistic principles, that ignorant attitude is why most people make stupid decisions and/or have uninformed opinions.
I'm of the opinion that some level of statistical inferential theory should be compulsory in the education system.

"requirements of rationality and consistency and interpreted as an extension of logic"

Ain't going to work on here SAS, most of don't even realise they are bedwetters :smile

Moscow Mule
8th July 2010, 14:04
As the whole world works on probabilistic principles, that ignorant attitude is why most people make stupid decisions and/or have uninformed opinions.
I'm of the opinion that some level of statistical inferential theory should be compulsory in the education system.

:nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight :nerd :bluelight

I believe the phrase is "fished in".

:rollin:

gingerjedi
8th July 2010, 14:11
I worked for Qinetic before it was Qinetic. You could not find a more random bunch of geeks, nerds, losers and oddballs.



You've yet to spend time at GCHQ then. http://www.visordown.com/forum/smilies/nerd_smiley.gif

Troll
8th July 2010, 15:32
The reason that you got so excited is that this sort of excellence is the exception to the rule of mediocrity.
The Germans probably have hundreds of factories (maybe not jet engines but other stuff) all at the top of their game.
This makes me glum.But now Germany has recognised that its dependance on producing stuff is no longer viable against the lower cost Far Eastern nations & is searching for a new model to structure its ecomomy

HTH

NickFitz
8th July 2010, 15:57
Looks like the final episode on Sunday is at defence contractor QinetiQ's (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3dc7):


We meet the scientists and engineers building robots to diffuse Afghanistan's deadly roadside bombs...


FFS, you'd think the BBC could find somebody who knows the difference between "diffuse" and "defuse" :tantrum:

scooterscot
8th July 2010, 18:05
Yeah it is on iPlayer. Thats where I watched it earlier in the week.

Does anybody know what else the series will cover?


download get_iplayer
open terminal (if you've no got a Mac yet.... )
CD to wherever get_iplayer is


To see the list of available programmes type and execute:

./get_iplayer --terse

346: How to Build... - 1. A Nuclear Submarine
347: How to Build... - 2. A Jumbo Jet Engine


Type and execute:

./get_iplayer --get 347

Vola, a DRM free copy to watch as many times as you like

minestrone
8th July 2010, 19:10
There has always been a perception that Engineering was killed off in Britain. But then everyone had a picture of an engineer as someone who wore a boiler suit and worked on a line, went on strike and fought the Tories.

But what do we expect? Engineer is a protected term in Europe, you have to get an Engineering degree in Germany to call yourself an Engineer like you have to get a degree in Medicine to call yourself a Doctor.

What do we do? Let call centre staff be Sales Engineers?

shaunbhoy
8th July 2010, 19:24
What do we do? Let call centre staff be Sales Engineers?

Or even better.....................Vision Technician = Window Cleaner

:rollin:

minestrone
8th July 2010, 19:33
Or even better.....................Vision Technician = Window Cleaner

:rollin:

Diversity Consultant == Pierced Lesbian == £75,000

Moscow Mule
8th July 2010, 23:04
download get_iplayer
open terminal (if you've no got a Mac yet.... )
CD to wherever get_iplayer is


To see the list of available programmes type and execute:

./get_iplayer --terse

346: How to Build... - 1. A Nuclear Submarine
347: How to Build... - 2. A Jumbo Jet Engine


Type and execute:

./get_iplayer --get 347

Vola, a DRM free copy to watch as many times as you like


Get iPlayer Automator (http://tom-tech.com/iplayer_automator/iPlayer_Automator/Get_iPlayer_Automator.html)

looks like it might work...

Edit: Doesn't. Shame - terminal all the way then.

sasguru
9th July 2010, 09:49
But now Germany has recognised that its dependance on producing stuff is no longer viable against the lower cost Far Eastern nations & is searching for a new model to structure its ecomomy

HTH

Yes, so the jealous and parochial British press would have us believe.
One of the ironies of the current crisis was the Economist urging Germany to be more like Britain :laugh:laugh:laugh
The Germans on the other hand realise that they can compete on quality and the brand "made in Germany" still counts for something, so rather than destroying their manufacturing, they're simply striving,successfully, for the top end.

threaded
9th July 2010, 09:57
There has always been a perception that Engineering was killed off in Britain. But then everyone had a picture of an engineer as someone who wore a boiler suit and worked on a line, went on strike and fought the Tories.

But what do we expect? Engineer is a protected term in Europe, you have to get an Engineering degree in Germany to call yourself an Engineer like you have to get a degree in Medicine to call yourself a Doctor.

What do we do? Let call centre staff be Sales Engineers?

And being called Herr Doktor at work causes the girlies to send you naked videos of themselves, it's a scandal.

Troll
9th July 2010, 11:25
Yes, so the jealous and parochial British press would have us believe.
One of the ironies of the current crisis was the Economist urging Germany to be more like Britain :laugh:laugh:laugh
The Germans on the other hand realise that they can compete on quality and the brand "made in Germany" still counts for something, so rather than destroying their manufacturing, they're simply striving,successfully, for the top end.

Outlook for 2010: German Economy on Brink of Radical Restructuring - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,669548,00.html)

HTH

Sysman
9th July 2010, 11:44
FFS, you'd think the BBC could find somebody who knows the difference between "diffuse" and "defuse" :tantrum:

'fraid not.

Sysman
9th July 2010, 12:02
download get_iplayer
open terminal (if you've no got a Mac yet.... )
CD to wherever get_iplayer is


To see the list of available programmes type and execute:

./get_iplayer --terse

346: How to Build... - 1. A Nuclear Submarine
347: How to Build... - 2. A Jumbo Jet Engine


Type and execute:

./get_iplayer --get 347

Vola, a DRM free copy to watch as many times as you like

It gives me:


Matches:
342: How to Build... - 1. A Nuclear Submarine, BBC Two, Factual,Science & Nature,Science & Technology,TV, default

INFO: 1 Matching Programmes
INFO: Checking existence of default version
ERROR: Failed to get iphone URL from iplayer site

INFO: No specified modes (iphone) available for this programme with version 'default' (try using --modes=)
ERROR: Failed to record 'How to Build... - 1. A Nuclear Submarine (b00syt1w)'

Any idea what the --modes thing does? I've tried it with --mode=flashnormal, but it complains about that too.

Sysman
9th July 2010, 13:45
You can thank Arnie Weinstock for that.

He scuppered the Finniston Report on Engineering so he wouldn't have to pay professional rates to professional engineers.

He gave us the norm of UK businesses paying 90 days late (sometimes up to 180 days late) as well.

Hanging, drawing and quartering is too good for him.

Sysman
9th July 2010, 14:08
But at least he kept the share price reasonable.

£12 rather than 12p :rollin:

His obituary (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/lord-weinstock-649304.html) isn't exactly flattering.


He left a contested legacy: supporters pointed to the new tone of precision and sharpness he had injected into British industry in the 1960s; his increasing number of detractors pointed to the negativism, his failure to produce a proper strategy for the electrical and above all electronic manufacturing sector dominated by the General Electric Company, the giant he dominated for over 30 years. Indeed, it is not too much to see that had he shown the slightest breadth of vision Britain would today be a world leader in every aspect of electronic manufacturing.

Fall of the house that Arnie built (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2939615/Fall-of-the-house-that-Arnie-built.html)

OwlHoot
9th July 2010, 14:18
Or even, one might guess, defuze. :eyes

Arguably "diffuse" would make sense, in the sense of detonating the bombs, even if that meaning obviously wasn't intended.

But maybe if these robots were disposable ...

That's a thought - Why not just use cheap robots that simply toddle up to the bomb and plant a thick titanium or boron carbide cone over it and detonate the thing so the plasma and shrapnel is deflected harmlessly up in the air?

xoggoth
9th July 2010, 15:18
I worked at RR Filton and Derby. Most of any credit due is down to me obviously.

scooterscot
9th July 2010, 15:32
Any idea what the --modes thing does? I've tried it with --mode=flashnormal, but it complains about that too.

Yes. It specifies the recording resolution of the stream. If you are behind a proxy server make sure you include. This worked for me...


./get_iplayer --p http://127.0.0.1:5405 --get 598 --mode=flashhigh --force

sasguru
9th July 2010, 16:24
Outlook for 2010: German Economy on Brink of Radical Restructuring - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,669548,00.html)

HTH

Read the last paragraph of that typical journalists article. We have the same type of useful idiot writing here for the Economist

HTH, but IDI.

Troll
9th July 2010, 22:15
blah blah blah blah. Just concede that what you wrote was wrong, then we can move on

dang65
9th July 2010, 23:04
Watched a documentary about Rolls Royce making jet engines last night, it was bloody brilliant.
They were pretty good before the jet engines too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpq4Tu2NnrQ

n.b. A bit NSFW right at the end!

scooterscot
10th July 2010, 10:40
Here's some nice Rolls Royce engine for you..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1wHbLWSvlo

Sysman
10th July 2010, 12:12
Yup.

He managed to destroy, almost single handed, much of British electronic industry, such as it was.

The Old Liebour bunch in the 60s were dead keen to have GEC as the be all and end all of British electronics.

Turned out well, didn't it?

I was ever so impressed to read that, when some computer salesman had earned more in bonus than the sainted Arnie, he thereupon changed the bonus scheme so that it could never happen again.

Feckwit.

Feckwit indeed. A mate of mine went for an interview with GEC in the early 1980s. On the tour around the factory floor they came across some old telephone exchanges and he was told that they'd come from abroad and were destined for British Telecom (still part of the Post Office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Group#1977.C2.A0.E2.80.93_1982:_British_Telecom ) back then).

He was so mad with the idea of them fobbing the British public/taxpayer off with second hand junk that he turned the job down.

Around that time I started working in France and was expecting to find a telephone system which was a joke. Not at all, for they had just revamped it with all shiny new kit and I enjoyed a far better system than the UK would see for many years.

I'll upgrade Weinstock from Feckwit to Public Enemy.

Green Mango
10th July 2010, 12:50
Feckwit indeed. A mate of mine went for an interview with GEC in the early 1980s. On the tour around the factory floor they came across some old telephone exchanges and he was told that they'd come from abroad and were destined for British Telecom (still part of the Post Office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Group#1977.C2.A0.E2.80.93_1982:_British_Telecom ) back then).

He was so mad with the idea of them fobbing the British public/taxpayer off with second hand junk that he turned the job down.

Around that time I started working in France and was expecting to find a telephone system which was a joke. Not at all, for they had just revamped it with all shiny new kit and I enjoyed a far better system than the UK would see for many years.

I'll upgrade Weinstock from Feckwit to Public Enemy.


Simpson took over GEC, talking about Weinstock's GEC he said it was a sign of a badly run company to have
2 billion in the bank. Simpson spent all the dough at the height of the tech boom.

Labour made him a Lord.

Then the tech boom came to an end the music stopped and the company basicly went broke,
many parts of what had been the old telecoms business GPT were closed down or sold off
cheapley.

Weinstock wasn't perfect, but at least he didn't wreck the company....

scooterscot
10th July 2010, 14:19
Simpson took over GEC, talking about Weinstock's GEC he said it was a sign of a badly run company to have
2 billion in the bank. Simpson spent all the dough at the height of the tech boom.
.

I remember going to the NEC in Birmingham as a newly keen graduate when I just started at GEC. We were all given a share by Simpson the day he give his lecture. He said keep it safe that single share will be worth some countless amount in the years to come. Years came and the company went bust.

Manufacturing in the UK does not get the respect it deserves. At no point I can think of in my lifetime have I known the UK manufacturing bailed out to the crazy numbers the banks were. They should have been allowed to fail. Yet when you have people like Dyson fronting money to build a school of design and engineering (http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/oct/08/schools.entrepreneurs), we through beauoracy and tell no can't help you. So off to the US he went instead.

Oh services will save us! The city just keeps on making money, who cares if its ethical..

Services can only exist with a strong manufacturing base. Exporting manufacturing jobs abroad to make the end of year accounts look better is no excuse.

We need to be leading the world again with our innovative engineering know now, instead we punish it.

Sysman
12th July 2010, 08:17
Did anyone watch the thing about Qnetiq?

I taped recorded it and will watch later.

lukemg
12th July 2010, 09:26
Yeah, I started watching it, bit of a disappointment after the Rolls one. Having to rip-out the whole of the insides of 8 yank copters due to a total nob-up and painting wind farms is not the story of excellence I am after, despite the obvious skills in evidence.
No doubt there was a lot of more interesting work going on that they weren’t allowed anywhere near.
Great shots of decaying 1960’s industrial units to reinforce the make-do and mend impression you kind of expect. There is obviously some cutting edge work going on but much of this is bespoke military stuff. I know this does generate revenue from oil states but I want to see the numbers. Key thing about RR was competition in a global market place and how they met this head on and were doing brilliantly.

SupremeSpod
12th July 2010, 09:43
There was a program about 15 or 16 years ago about DERA.

It was memorable for some unfortunate squaddie who looked like he had an enormous cabbage on his head.

Apparently it did something magic in the cabbage field though I now can't remember quite what.

That'll be camouflage...

SupremeSpod - In "Cabbage Head" mode!

gingerjedi
12th July 2010, 09:46
DERA/QinetiQ use a beach near me, they lost a crate of high explosives at high tide once.

Just across the water from you Zeity, have they washed up yet?