PDA

View Full Version : Penal Reform



administrator
5th October 2010, 08:31
After yesterday's post on Child Benefit I am not sure I should post this...

Tory Penal Reform (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11470289)

Sounds good apart from paying them minimum wage while they work.

HairyArsedBloke
5th October 2010, 08:43
But officials are aware that any move to provide prisoners with work must not be at the expense of local jobs and businesses, our correspondent added.


Yeah, right. And there is a massive skills shortage that can only be covered by the import of highly skilled and experienced IT professionals from India too.


It sounds a good idea, but a) completely misses the root cause of the problem, and b) is open to abuse.

TestMangler
5th October 2010, 08:44
Ah....PENAL reform........read it slighly different.

Nothing to see here......

gingerjedi
5th October 2010, 08:45
After yesterday's post on Child Benefit I am not sure I should post this...

Tory Penal Reform (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11470289)

Sounds good apart from paying them minimum wage while they work.

They can pay toward their board and lodging with it.

MarillionFan
5th October 2010, 09:00
Chain gang 'em I say. Hanging's too good for them!!!

administrator
5th October 2010, 09:06
Yeah, right. And there is a massive skills shortage that can only be covered by the import of highly skilled and experienced IT professionals from India too.

It sounds a good idea, but a) completely misses the root cause of the problem, and b) is open to abuse.

Well the root cause of the problems are too deep to enter into in talks about reform surely? The root of the problem are massive failing by society to educate and look after its citizens. Changing the way society works at that level is an enormous change and I am not sure it can be compared to the import of workers.

In a lot of ways this is a good start to the change in the way society treats offenders. Instead of being locked up, get the buggers out working each day. Make the labour moderately harsh and it may help stop them re-offending. Currently being banged up in a warm room with TV etc is just too easy. Making them work can also reduce the financial burdens of keeping them inside.

In what way would it be open to abuse?


They can pay toward their board and lodging with it.

Exactly, but sod the minimum wage being paid to them, make them keep their own places clean and tidy and also get them doing the jobs no-one else wants, make prisoners work hard to repay society rather than giving them the cushy ride they currently get.

Saddo
5th October 2010, 09:07
Chain gang 'em I say. Hanging's too good for them!!!

Nowt wrong with a chain gang IMHO. Why shouldn't they do a bit of community service to earn their keep? Cleaning road signs and sweeping roads (outside lane of the M1 for example) would give them a purpose in life rather than shagging their cellmate.

HairyArsedBloke
5th October 2010, 09:15
Nowt wrong with a chain gang IMHO. Why shouldn't they do a bit of community service to earn their keep? Cleaning road signs and sweeping roads (outside lane of the M1 for example) would give them a purpose in life rather than shagging their cellmate.

If prisoners are put on chain gangs what are the unemployed chain gangs going to do?

And what about all the poeple who currently have jobs cleaning roads, etc?

administrator
5th October 2010, 09:25
If prisoners are put on chain gangs what are the unemployed chain gangs going to do?

And what about all the poeple who currently have jobs cleaning roads, etc?

Get the miscreants to do the work that no-one else wants to do. Appreciate what you mean about them potentially taking jobs away from those who want to work who haven't offended but there must be jobs out there that are a bit harsh that no-one wants to do...

HairyArsedBloke
5th October 2010, 10:17
Get the miscreants to do the work that no-one else wants to do. Appreciate what you mean about them potentially taking jobs away from those who want to work who haven't offended but there must be jobs out there that are a bit harsh that no-one wants to do...

Are people in prison for punishment or as punishment? I have always been told that it was the latter.

I am all for programs in prisons to keep them occupied and rehabilitation, but it should not be further retribution or open to commercial abuse.

In any case, the economic prospects of the UK mean that benefits will be withdrawn for the vast majority of job seekers so there will be few jobs that nobody wants to do. Crime will increase too. Indeed, long before the real rot sets in, for some the prospect of gaol with a bed, a roof over their head and regular meals will be an attractive option.

BoredBloke
5th October 2010, 10:25
Those in prison will not be allowed to earn more than £20 a week - the rest will go towards paying for the service and into the victims of crime fund - Personally I can't think of a single reason why we should provide them with warm accomodation, food and entertainment when we have pensioners freezing and/or starving.

There must be plenty of roles that are uneconimic to do in this country that we could get this lot to do rather than sitting in their cells watching TV all day

administrator
5th October 2010, 10:46
Are people in prison for punishment or as punishment? I have always been told that it was the latter.

I am all for programs in prisons to keep them occupied and rehabilitation, but it should not be further retribution or open to commercial abuse.

In any case, the economic prospects of the UK mean that benefits will be withdrawn for the vast majority of job seekers so there will be few jobs that nobody wants to do. Crime will increase too. Indeed, long before the real rot sets in, for some the prospect of gaol with a bed, a roof over their head and regular meals will be an attractive option.

You cannot say that the act of being imprisoned, being banged up as punishment, is effective if said act is not in some way painful to the offender. In the past being in prison was as punishment as the conditions inside should have made it unpleasant enough for the criminal to not want to offend again. This does not appear to be the case now. So appreciate that being imprisoned is the punishment for breaking the law but the act is not enough of a deterrent any more so in effect being imprisoned is no longer a punishment unless life for those inside is made harder. Having to do 40 hours a week of proper work would help make being imprisoned the punishment it was designed to be IMO.

Rehabilitation is another matter. I do not believe that our society helps people enough before they get into prison. Should heroin addicts be banged up because they have become victims of addiction or should they be helped more to get out of the rut they are in? Banging them up does no good whatsoever. Should petty criminals be educated and helped to find a purpose in life rather than banged up immediately? I think they should. Society has failed these individuals a lot of the time and looking at these root causes would lower the volume of offenders hitting these institutions.

Agree about economic prospects for our country but what you describe - benefit withdrawal and therefore crime increasing - would lead to vicious circle that we could almost not escape from. A bleak prospect. In which the treatment of criminals while in jail would be the least of our worries...