Leaving without notice

[premiere]

Morning all,

As you all may know, I am leaving my current contract early, however I am working the proper notice period as stated in my contract. I have another contract to start when this one ends and I managed to get the new employer to accept that I couldn't start for a month.

However, there's a geezer that sits not many desks away from me and he also is leaving early, however, he has had an offer for another job, accepted, I believe signed on the dotted line and is now refusing to work his notice. He can't understand why his agent is doing his nut...

I told him he was:

1. Unprofessional
2. In breach of contract (he has a 4 week notice period)
3. He could be sued

He then said b*ll*cks to the current company and if they didn't like it then stuff'em. He also said that he's done this many times and that companies should understand that there is no loyalty in business. well he actually said agents would shaft you given half the chance!

Tis no wonder that sometimes contractors are viewed warily.

So, are you lot loyal to the point of being professional??

Cheers

P.

[DodgyAgent]

Morning all,

As you all may know, I am leaving my current contract early, however I am working the proper notice period as stated in my contract. I have another contract to start when this one ends and I managed to get the new employer to accept that I couldn't start for a month.

However, there's a geezer that sits not many desks away from me and he also is leaving early, however, he has had an offer for another job, accepted, I believe signed on the dotted line and is now refusing to work his notice. He can't understand why his agent is doing his nut...

I told him he was:

1. Unprofessional
2. In breach of contract (he has a 4 week notice period)
3. He could be sued

He then said b*ll*cks to the current company and if they didn't like it then stuff'em. He also said that he's done this many times and that companies should understand that there is no loyalty in business. well he actually said agents would shaft you given half the chance!

Tis no wonder that sometimes contractors are viewed warily.

So, are you lot loyal to the point of being professional??

Cheers

P.

If he pi**** off the client then he is a fool. If he pi***es off the agent then too bad.

[milanbenes]

same could be argued for yourself, are you professional leaving the contract before the agreed end even if you leave within the notice period ?

Milan.

[expat]

same could be argued for yourself, are you professional leaving the contract before the agreed end even if you leave within the notice period ?

Milan.

Yes. The notice period is in the contract.

Suggesting that being "professional" requires things that somebody else wants but you didn't agree to, is a typical agent trick. Be off with you.

[privateeye]

Clients and agents will use the notice period - and generally it is them who put it there for a reason. So I have no problem with someone using the notice period. I would say it is very unprofessional to walk out without using the notice period or finishing the contract.

I have used the notice period once on a contract where I was treated very badly - I was constantly being publicly berated for not doing enough work but after a month still had no PC, desk, network connection etc etc. It would have to get to something like that for me to use the notice period.

There is another time when the client gave notice as they were having to make cut backs and it could be seen they were in trouble. When I received an offer from somewhere else all three parties agent, client, an I agreed I could go before the notice period to the new contract as it would help the client and the agent who might not get paid - so it does work for all parties too.

I only see it as a safety net - not so I can keep looking for another contract and see if the grass is greener elsewhere.

[Denny]

If you opted out of the regulations you were not protected if the client had decided to ditch you by claiming false claims of underperformance or some other reason in your contract that allows them not to pay notice. Whenever that happens contractors have little chance of redress or probably won't get agency support either. So why should everything work one way? This may not have happened with you in this role but they could have had that option if they wished to exercise it.

My view is this: only serve the notice period as agreed in your contract if it suits your own purposes. If it doesn't, then tell the client that you opted out, give the reasons, why as stated above, and negotiate your own leaving date with them within that period. This could be as little as a week. If they don't agree just to be awkward or rulebound tell them in writing that day you are serving notice up to the time you want to leave and it's up to them to find a replacment within the time you're giving them. Make sure you leave at least a week though. A day is unreasonable irrespective of any contractual arrangment in place with agency and client. Having said that, I know of one end client that arranged with one of their suppliers for all contractors to be given 24 hours for the first month on site and only a week thereafter whilst the same agency stated on their contractor terms that the client had agreed to 4 weeks from day 1. Apparently, this is perfectly legal according to Barry Roback because each contract is treated in law on its own merits. The fact that such cock handed arrangements just invites false claims of underperformance to cover up the discrepancies and to let the agency off the hook for potentially paying up over 3 weeks pay out of their own pocket with no client funding to cover it seems to have escaped anyones' notice.

If you have something else lined up there is no reason on earth why you should be expected to sacrifice the new job. End clients can't have it all their own way. If they're not aware that you opted out then make them aware that you were 'persuaded by the agency because the client preferred it' as is often stated is the case when recruiters are putting you forward (not true most of the time). That way the client is made aware that they were exposing themselves to additional risks such as this and you must at all costs not be viewed as an employee acting out employee like behaviour.

If you opted in then I suggest that you do the right thing and be prepared to serve the notice out in full. After all you are a pseudo employee.

None of this has anything to do with IR35 compliance simply because opting out and in has nothing to do with IR35 compliance. However the pseudo employee -v- own business criteria does apply when it comes to negotating such matters.

[premiere]

Re: Leaving without notice

Hi all, thanks for the responses and I would like to point out that in my case, I am working my full notice period.

As for am I being professional?? This is the only time I have ever executed my right to leave before completing the contract.

I have been here for 8 months. Each time, only being renewed for an extra 2 months and in each of these cases, that's only been agreed in the last hour of my last day each time.

The end client is lucky that I ain't suing them for peer pressure, bullying etc anyway!! I just found myself in a bad contract this time around.

All I was trying to say was that even in these circumstances, I felt the other bloke was leaving himself open to legal action for quitting without serving any notice. That, I deem unprofessional...and yes he was bullied too.

I tried to warn him not to burn bridges, as what goes around comes around.

[Churchill]

Hi all, thanks for the responses and I would like to point out that in my case, I am working my full notice period.

As for am I being professional?? This is the only time I have ever executed my right to leave before completing the contract.

I have been here for 8 months. Each time, only being renewed for an extra 2 months and in each of these cases, that's only been agreed in the last hour of my last day each time.

The end client is lucky that I ain't suing them for peer pressure, bullying etc anyway!! I just found myself in a bad contract this time around.

All I was trying to say was that even in these circumstances, I felt the other bloke was leaving himself open to legal action for quitting without serving any notice. That, I deem unprofessional...and yes he was bullied too.

I tried to warn him not to burn bridges, as what goes around comes around.

Sort your own crap out and stop worrying about other people. If you've only been renewed for two months at a time and you're working a one month notice period then surely you could've waited until your next renewal and said "No Thanks".

[premiere]

Fair point

[DodgyAgent]

If you opted out of the regulations you were not protected if the client had decided to ditch you by claiming false claims of underperformance or some other reason in your contract that allows them not to pay notice. Whenever that happens contractors have little chance of redress or probably won't get agency support either. So why should everything work one way? This may not have happened with you in this role but they could have had that option if they wished to exercise it.

My view is this: only serve the notice period as agreed in your contract if it suits your own purposes. If it doesn't, then tell the client that you opted out, give the reasons, why as stated above, and negotiate your own leaving date with them within that period. This could be as little as a week. If they don't agree just to be awkward or rulebound tell them in writing that day you are serving notice up to the time you want to leave and it's up to them to find a replacment within the time you're giving them. Make sure you leave at least a week though. A day is unreasonable irrespective of any contractual arrangment in place with agency and client. Having said that, I know of one end client that arranged with one of their suppliers for all contractors to be given 24 hours for the first month on site and only a week thereafter whilst the same agency stated on their contractor terms that the client had agreed to 4 weeks from day 1. Apparently, this is perfectly legal according to Barry Roback because each contract is treated in law on its own merits. The fact that such cock handed arrangements just invites false claims of underperformance to cover up the discrepancies and to let the agency off the hook for potentially paying up over 3 weeks pay out of their own pocket with no client funding to cover it seems to have escaped anyones' notice.

If you have something else lined up there is no reason on earth why you should be expected to sacrifice the new job. End clients can't have it all their own way. If they're not aware that you opted out then make them aware that you were 'persuaded by the agency because the client preferred it' as is often stated is the case when recruiters are putting you forward (not true most of the time). That way the client is made aware that they were exposing themselves to additional risks such as this and you must at all costs not be viewed as an employee acting out employee like behaviour.

If you opted in then I suggest that you do the right thing and be prepared to serve the notice out in full. After all you are a pseudo employee.

None of this has anything to do with IR35 compliance simply because opting out and in has nothing to do with IR35 compliance. However the pseudo employee -v- own business criteria does apply when it comes to negotating such matters.

You dont really have much idea of how to influence people do you Denny?
A lot of the subtleties of customer service, influencing and networking were never included in jour Genes were they? Everything is a black and white quid pro quo environment of continual conflict is it not?