Attitude towards working hours

**MrRobin** · 23 March 2011, 22:11

Hello mouse organ, welcome to the forums. May I start by saying you're not the first to make a comment about the size of your organ on this forum, but your boast is refreshing.

In my experience, although contracts say expected hours, they also say something like 'professional working day' I.e. you stay there to get the work done and meet deadlines, and if that means some late nights then that's part of being a 'professional'. When this happens to me I simply take a few days of leaving early or coming in late, but still charge for 1 day, to make up for it. A good client will know there should be some give and take.

Of course, if you're staying until 8 or similar every day then this is a different matter. Do other contractors have the same issues? What about all the permies? Is it an American IB by any chance?

**cojak** · 23 March 2011, 22:13

Yes you should be more flexible - clock watching is a permie trait.

I'm not saying you should give an hour every day but it's give and take. If you're flexible occasionally then so will the client.

(And I've a 5 hour daily commute.)

**Wanderer** · 23 March 2011, 22:29

Originally posted by mouseorgan View Post

Should I be taking a more flexible approach and be giving extra hours for free (hours which should be being done by another person ideally) in order to achieve the deadlines put forward to us? I'm enthusiastic about the work, I enjoy it, but if I can work for free OR see my kids before bed, it doesn't really seem like much to think about.

I put in the extra hours when needed or in response to major incidents and the client appreciates that. Generally I don't charge for it either, I just put it down to good will. In return I take flexible hours as required. It's swings and roundabouts but it's a fine line and you have to strike a balance between work and home life.

Can you do work from home occasionally? That makes a big difference to my balance.

**northernladuk** · 23 March 2011, 22:32

Is there anything you can negotiate with them? If you are flexible with them clients can be surprisingly flexible back. You clock watch they won't move an inch obviously.

Do a few weeks of more flexible work and once people have gotten used to it could you not explore the idea of an early finish Friday, work from home, work over the weekend in your time in return for early finish once or twice or something?

Obviously depends on your clients, and more importantly your managers take on work/life balance but some large clients take it quite seriously and will listen a little more.

**craig1** · 23 March 2011, 22:42

The key is to set expectations on the first day of a contract. Make it clear that you're not averse to working long hours for essential deadlines on the sole condition that they don't grumble if you take the very occasional half/part day out to do things like doctors appointments. I make it clear that they're going to get more than the contracted hours so it's in their interests to agree.

If you're billing by the day, make sure your hours on your timesheets are accurate. Do them daily. That way if anyone senior gets sniffy about you disappearing early one day then you can show the hours you have worked. Don't just stick 9-5 on a timesheet every day as the one day when you're doing 8:30-4:30 all they'll remember is you going home at 4:30 "but your timesheet says you came in at 9".

As mentioned above though, some managers/clients can be clock-watching pedants. You could come in at 5am for a 9-5 day job and they'll whine like a kicked puppy if you leave at 4:55pm. If you have the misfortune of working for one of those people then you just work your 9-5 and get out, any extra time will be unappreciated and will just annoy you in the long run.

**gingerjedi** · 24 March 2011, 08:33

I take a different view, do builders, plumbers and electricians work for free?

It's the salaried permies who'll stay late, the boss man may even buy them a cupcake at the end of the month if they hit the target.

...Whereas I'm a business and a family man.

I guess support is different to having deliverables.

**VectraMan** · 24 March 2011, 08:48

If you're paid per hour, then it's the hours that you do that count. If you're paid per day, then you need to be doing what's reasonably required of you for that day, which may well mean a certain amount of flexibility. Clearly it's not reasonable to expect you to work until midnight every night, but it's not working "for free"; it's what you agreed to when you agreed a day rate.

Remember that delivering when it counts and putting the client's needs first is what gets you the renewal.

**Ignis Fatuus** · 24 March 2011, 08:48

Clockwatching is a permie habit. Consciously not clockwatching is also a permie habit. A business provides what is paid for.

Sorry but this doesn't help the OP if his manager thinks that what he has is a type B permie, where he watches the clock with satisfaction as the free hours roll up.

**Scrag Meister** · 24 March 2011, 09:02

It mentions in my contract that it's a "professional day", and that they pay a professional day for an 8 hour day. They don't pay for any hours over this.

As others have said, be flexible, when the work is there be prepared to get stuck in and do some extra hours, doesn't mean they get forgotten, start an hour later, finish an hour earlier to make up.

It does depend a lot on your manager, I have been very fortunate so far in my contracting career, in that they have been very reasonable.

Attitude towards working hours